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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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17 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Surely if there were a German farmer someone could show evidence of him being here?

There is a difference between allowed to do something and being paid to do something.  I would like to live in a nicer area than I do but I don't expect the tax payer to pay me to do so (I probably could afford to if my taxes were not used to subsidize others living there).

Presumably you think that European countries that don't pay British people to go and live there are morally disgusting as well.

Agree totally - I would live to live in a house overlooking the river on Richmond Hill and drive  a Maserati.  I cannot however afford to do so.  I do not expect anyone else to pay for me to do so

I would not go to a country where I had no skills to offer and or could not speak the language and expect to either be successful or to be looked after and to receive benefits.  

15 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

UKIP did not start about immigration but because of the Maastricht treaty, it is possible that if we had had large scale immigration but the EU had not replaced the EEC we would still be in the EEC.

Totally correct

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2 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Not all people from the EU in the UK are net contributors to the UK budget - that is just wrong.  

Not all British people are net contributors to the UK or other EU country budget.

3 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

How many British people in the EU get their rent paid by the local tax payer?

I don't know, but they are  entitled to it and most likely some are exercising their rights.

"Housing benefit is a public benefit which provides financial support for people on low incomes. You can receive financial assistance towards your housing costs from the state. There are two forms of housing benefit:

rent support (Mietzuschuss), if you are renting a property or room, or
mortgage and home upkeep support (Lastenzuschuss), if you are living in a flat or house which you own.
You only receive this support if you are actually living in Germany and are entitled to free movement under the Act on the General Freedom of Movement for EU Citizens (Freizügigkeitsgesetz/EU). 
You can only receive housing benefit if you submit an application to your local housing benefit office (Wohngeldbehörde) within your local authority (at municipal, town, association of municipalities, or county level). The housing benefit office will give you detailed advice."

https://www.eu-gleichbehandlungsstelle.de/eugs-en/eu-citizens/information/first-steps-in-germany/housing

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On 19/02/2020 at 06:06, Simhadri said:

Significant number of people coming on visitor visa, study visa, marriage visa are neither applying for extension of their visas nor going back to their countries. These people form bulk of 4 million illegal immigrants in UK. How can government find and deport them ? By mandating every person in UK to carry ID card with them all the time on streets ? Deporting illegal immigrants will help us in getting educated immigrants with valid visa without effecting migration numbers. EU migration is just a cherry on cake.

You need to brush up on your English. 

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Can afford to come here to study once graduated can stay for two years to find work and stay, a way those who can, can.......those who can't won't......we want money and brains or is that money can open doors that are shut for other brainy people without the funds??

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3 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Far-right attack in Germany last night. It is the nature of civil wars that they escalate out of nowhere. For the people of England in the 17th century right up until the battle of Naseby it was inconceviable that Crown and Parliament would actually kill each other.

Strictly speaking the first battle was not Naseby but IIRC Edgeware Hill.

However I think you are right - no one thought that Yugoslavia was going to start fighting until just before it happened.

The same with the Bogatazo in Colombia in the 40s.

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21 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

The thing is, in London, immigrants are not treated like second class citizens. It is mostly the low immigration areas that are afraid of "mass uncontrolled immigration". They don't like that their country has changed, even if it isn't exactly in their area (*). I can't speak for the other metropolitan cities but plenty of immigrants are still going to want to come to London. It is a global city, amazingly vibrant, fantastic architecture, really varied suburbs and areas, full of youngsters and not so youngsters from across the globe. A certain type of people are drawn to that.

What makes me laugh is the same people who will happily sit on one thread on this site and loudly proclaim London to be a sh1thole, while on another thread proclaiming how it will continue to attract talent from all over the globe because of how amazing it is. 

Having said that, it won't be possible for a young European to simply come over to London anymore and make their way. That will put a lot of people off, particularly when there are other options around the EU. And if London is now equivalent to going anywhere else in the globe for those EU youngsters, rather than a hop on a flight with enough money to survive until they join a startup or whatever, a lot of them will just decide to go elsewhere, like the US for example.

(*) Incoming Bolton.

Yes London is very different from the rest of the UK. My point was about the proposed immigration system which make the situation of people coming here much worse. For low skilled people it will be almost impossible to work in the UK,  the skilled ones will be allowed but they will treated as second class residents with very limited rights.

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10 hours ago, slawek said:

'Doors will close for Brits in EU': Why the UK's post-Brexit immigration plan has sparked alarm

British in Europe's Fiona Godfrey added: "This will have repercussions for UK nationals already living in the EU. We are still waiting for some countries to decide how they will register  us under the Withdrawal Agreement and this probably won’t help persuade them to choose the declaratory option rather than the re-registration option. 

"And, of course, it’s not going to help Brits who want or need to leave their host country to find work elsewhere in the EU if the member states reciprocate, which we expect them to do. 
 
"All in all, it’s more British exceptionalism, insularity and delusion. It would be embarrassing were it not for the fact that so many UK  lives and livelihoods in the EU, and EU lives and livelihoods in the UK are dependent on the UK government acting in good faith and treating EU nationals living there as assets to the country rather than units of “cheap labour.” The hostile environment has to stop."

https://www.thelocal.com/20200219/this-will-mean-nothing-good-for-brits-in-europe-uks-post-brexit-immigration-system-sparks-alarm

That is awful, we let EU citizens already here stay even if they are on benefits and always will be, but some EU countries have not reciprocated.  If the EU had decided to let EU citizens stay but we were not reciprocating, remainers and many brexiters would be going crazy - and quite rightly.

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14 minutes ago, slawek said:

Yes London is very different from the rest of the UK. My point was about the proposed immigration system which make the situation of people coming here much worse. For low skilled people it will be almost impossible to work in the UK,  the skilled ones will be allowed but they will treated as second class residents with very limited rights.

Is it worse than how Indians, Australians and New Zealanders are treated today?  Many of whom are descended from people who fought for the UK in WWI and WWII.

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5 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

That is awful, we let EU citizens already here stay even if they are on benefits and always will be, but some EU countries have not reciprocated.  If the EU had decided to let EU citizens stay but we were not reciprocating, remainers and many brexiters would be going crazy - and quite rightly.

If you are not working and below retirement age.....what county hands out benefits??

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17 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Strictly speaking the first battle was not Naseby but IIRC Edgeware Hill.

However I think you are right - no one thought that Yugoslavia was going to start fighting until just before it happened.

The same with the Bogatazo in Colombia in the 40s.

Unusually for me I can't recall who this was, a work colleague somewhere 1970s (?), "When Tito dies they'll all start fighting each other."

Somebody, somewhere always knows.

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Just now, Bluestone59 said:

Unusually for me I can't recall who this was, a work colleague somewhere 1970s (?), "When Tito dies they'll all start fighting each other."

Somebody, somewhere always knows.

Wow, that is really interesting. I know Tito said when he was dying "I fear I am the only Yugoslavian" - however I don't think many people predicted it.

Then again not many people in 1913 thought that WWI was coming.

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2 minutes ago, winkie said:

What EU country?......what we do is up to us, it was our choice.?

Very true - I do often wonder why we didn't change our benefit system based on the anger it was causing.

Sadly Blair decided calling critics racists was a better idea - not in the long term it turns out.

If we had done the following in 2004:-

Changed the benefit system so we stop paying people to move here and to make housing cheaper

Got more of our fish back

Made it sure that we will not join the EU and get consulted on further integration

Not called critics of the EU racist.

 

I would have probably have voted remain.  As the margin was quite small - people like me might have made all the difference.  Well done Tony - the real Mr Brexit.

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1 hour ago, mallish said:

Both - the 2 things are not exclusive

The fact is that there are many lazy people who  do not want to work

The fact is also that AI is destroying jobs particularly low paid unskilled  jobs - I was at a kitchen factory last year which 7 years ago employed 1000 people - with automation it now employs 60.

...

Do you think there are any positives from this automation, or is it just stupid and destructive, or at least another example of being stuck in a commercial arms race?

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50 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Strictly speaking the first battle was not Naseby but IIRC Edgeware Hill.

However I think you are right - no one thought that Yugoslavia was going to start fighting until just before it happened.

The same with the Bogatazo in Colombia in the 40s.

 

50 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Strictly speaking the first battle was not Naseby but IIRC Edgeware Hill.

However I think you are right - no one thought that Yugoslavia was going to start fighting until just before it happened.

The same with the Bogatazo in Colombia in the 40s.

Indeed Edgehill, my memory is failing me....

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1 hour ago, hotblack42 said:

And another thing.  So much noise in the media and on forums about the impact of Brexit and immigration controls on Musicians.  What are they, 0.1% of the workforce? Less?

Shouldn't we be much more concerned about the impact of these changes on the millions of 'Dave in claims', 'Laura in accounts', 'Mike the tyre fitter' etc. etc.?

Professional musicians have too much time on their hands, know many influential people and appear very adept at pulling the various PR levers.

My Uncle was a good man but a taker no doubt ? as my wise hard working old man said a great guy to take to a party but not take home !

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45 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said:

Unusually for me I can't recall who this was, a work colleague somewhere 1970s (?), "When Tito dies they'll all start fighting each other."

Somebody, somewhere always knows.

Now they're all fighting to join the EU.

It's a funny old world.

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48 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Wow, that is really interesting. I know Tito said when he was dying "I fear I am the only Yugoslavian" - however I don't think many people predicted it.

Then again not many people in 1913 thought that WWI was coming.

And if Franz Ferdinand had gone home after they threw the first bomb it might never have happened!

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2 hours ago, dugsbody said:

It was primarily about immigration. The rest of the arguments were added on as needed and will disappear very quickly. That's why people are happy to hand trade policy over to the Tories right now. They never really cared.

For some people, perhaps.  I don't support FOM and I think the points-based proposal is better.  But I voted Remain because there are more important matters than immigration.

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