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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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44 minutes ago, Warlord said:

Also, @spyguy the 2003 Lisbon Treaty allowed the Eastern Europeans to pour in. 

Time for all of them to go home IMO.

Blair and Brown said they wanted to "radically change" Britain they definitely succeeded - for the worse. 

Infrastructure is dire  and over population is a real problem. Try getting a GP appointment  

Blair and Brown have been out of office for eleven years! Responsibility for the crisis belongs entirely with the present incumbents.

And Brexit, manifestly, has changed nothing.

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2 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Blair and Brown have been out of office for eleven years! Responsibility for the crisis belongs entirely with the present incumbents.

And Brexit, manifestly, has changed nothing.

Like it or not many of our problems can be traced back to that pair... Hence Labours showing in the polls: voters still just about remember what they did,

Bumbling Boris has added to the problem due to COVID (Debt etc) but otherwise he is undoing the bad (pushing through Brexit). However, not fast enough for me and others it's going to take a generation to sort this mess out

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1 minute ago, Warlord said:

Like it or not many of our problems can be traced back to that pair... Hence Labours showing in the polls: voters still just about remember what they did,

Bumbling Boris has added to the problem due to COVID (Debt etc) but otherwise he is undoing the bad (pushing through Brexit). However, not fast enough for me and others it's going to take a generation to sort this mess out

He's pushing through Brexit because there was a large enough vote for that and he's out for popularity (although unfortunately that hasn't extended to various other popular ideas like scrapping HS2). But he's not interested in actually changing anything for real, so same means, different method. Brexit had to be done and sadly he was the only choice (a grotesque abrogation of responsibility from other parties and other Conservative leadership candidates), but it does come back to the EU only being one component of the problem, that our home-based ones are just as bad.

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1 minute ago, Warlord said:

Like it or not many of our problems can be traced back to that pair... Hence Labours showing in the polls: voters still just about remember what they did,

Bumbling Boris has added to the problem due to COVID (Debt etc) but otherwise he is undoing the bad (pushing through Brexit). However, not fast enough for me and others it's going to take a generation to sort this mess out

 

I thought Jeremy Corbyn's Venezuela was responsible for Labour's showing in the polls?

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3 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

He's pushing through Brexit because there was a large enough vote for that and he's out for popularity (although unfortunately that hasn't extended to various other popular ideas like scrapping HS2). But he's not interested in actually changing anything for real, so same means, different method. Brexit had to be done and sadly he was the only choice (a grotesque abrogation of responsibility from other parties and other Conservative leadership candidates), but it does come back to the EU only being one component of the problem, that our home-based ones are just as bad.

I'm glad he pushed through Brexit but yes, you're right... he seems to be maintaining the status quo though I new immigration laws are being drawn up so we'll have to see what they're proposing.  Slowly but surely the mess will be cleaned up .. as I said it'll take a generation 

COVID and all the debt they have taken on has not helped the situation 

Edited by Warlord
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18 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

Blair and Brown have been out of office for eleven years! Responsibility for the crisis belongs entirely with the present incumbents.

And Brexit, manifestly, has changed nothing.

I don't think the Tories have done very well, actually HTB is a disaster.  However lots of very high debts on overpriced property is not that easy to get rid of.

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12 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

 

I thought Jeremy Corbyn's Venezuela was responsible for Labour's showing in the polls?

I really think it's irrelevant who the leader is .

Luckily voters at the moment have long memories . The hard part is reminding new voters about the mess Labour made of the country. Sooner or later people will get bored of the tories and vote in  Labour AGAIN like they did in 97 (takes a new generation for this to happen) and the cycle repeats .... 

This is why it's important for people like me and @spyguyto remind everyone of their record and what they did to get us into this mess. 

This is NOT an endorsement of the tories: I see them as the less bad option and more in touch with reality (Brexit and new immigration laws are most welcome)..

Edited by Warlord
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2 minutes ago, Warlord said:

I'm glad he pushed through Brexit but yes, you're right... he seems to be maintaining the status quo though I new immigration laws are being drawn up so we'll have to see what they're proposing.  Slowly but surely the mess will be cleaned up .. as I said it'll take a generation 

COVID and all the debt they have taken on has not helped the situation 

 

Not unless they drop their fixation with hpi. I can't see that happening, tragically.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/18/uk-economy-could-resemble-italy-by-end-of-2020s-covid-brexit-climate

Quote

The UK needed to improve on the record of the 2010s – a decade that saw the weakest job mobility since the 1930s, the poorest productivity record for 120 years and the worst record for inequality of any EU country apart from Bulgaria, the report said. Without improvement, is authors wrote, Britain would have per capita incomes closer to Italy than Germany by the decade’s end.

 

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5 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

 

Not unless they drop their fixation with hpi. I can't see that happening, tragically.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/18/uk-economy-could-resemble-italy-by-end-of-2020s-covid-brexit-climate

 

Yes their obsession with HPI is annoying and you know I favour mass building including over the sacred green belt.  We only live on 3% of the land in the UK (or something like that). 

I doubt the tories will ever do this (or indeed any UK government!) 

Edited by Warlord
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Just now, Warlord said:

Yes their obsession with HPI is annoying and you know I favour mass building including over the sacred green belt.  We only live on 3% of the land in the UK (or something like this). 

I doubt the tories will ever do this.

 

Rather more than 3% - you've really got to scrap the barrel of the definition to get as low as 3% (nah, parks don't count, airport perimeters don't count, reservoirs don't count etc.) Then there's the very much larger amount that's devoted to intensive agriculture - a pretty bleak, lifeless environment, necessary to support a  population that requires that proportion of land built on.

In any case when you look around all that tells you is that that level is a lot. "Oh, it's a number that looks small" means nothing - try reading this on a screen with 3% faulty pixels and sure, you'll read it, but want a new screen because it's knackered.

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1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

Rather more than 3% - you've really got to scrap the barrel of the definition to get as low as 3% (nah, parks don't count, airport perimeters don't count, reservoirs don't count etc.) Then there's the very much larger amount that's devoted to intensive agriculture - a pretty bleak, lifeless environment, necessary to support a  population that requires that proportion of land built on.

In any case when you look around all that tells you is that that level is a lot. "Oh, it's a number that looks small" means nothing - try reading this on a screen with 3% faulty pixels and sure, you'll read it, but want a new screen because it's knackered.

doesn't the Crown (i.e public) own most of it.  If we don't have mass building many of our problems will still exist in 20 years. 

The problem of course is building on the (vast) countryside will never happen because the MPs and their constituencies  won't let it happen so we're stuck.

 

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3 minutes ago, Warlord said:

doesn't the Crown (i.e public) own most of it.  If we don't have mass building many of our problems will still exist in 20 years. 

The problem of course is building on the (vast) countryside will never happen because the MPs and their constituencies  won't let it happen so we're stuck.

A mass building programme is an unfortunate, abhorrent necessary evil, which absolutely has to go hand-in-hand with measures to make sure it's a one off and not part of an ever increasing level of development. Even with that it would still be debatable whether living to see the results of it would be preferable than being hit by a bus.

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4 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

A mass building programme is an unfortunate, abhorrent necessary evil, which absolutely has to go hand-in-hand with measures to make sure it's a one off and not part of an ever increasing level of development. Even with that it would still be debatable whether living to see the results of it would be preferable than being hit by a bus.

There can still be a lot of "urban" development though who wants to live in city centre flat? I don't. 

I always come back to the Milton Keynes example where they developed a whole new town in the 60;s. Reality is we need that sort of thinking but as I said NIMBYism will likely prevent it.

I'm sure I read that the tories were looking at relaxing planning rules but i'll believe it when I see it.

Edited by Warlord
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Just now, Warlord said:

There can still be a lot of "urban" development though who wants to live in city centre flat? I don't. 

I always come back to the Milton Keynes situation where they developed a whole new town in the 60;s. Reality is we need that sort of thinking but as I said NIMBYism will likely prevent it.

I'm sure I read that the tories were looking at relaxing planning rules but i'll believe it when I see it.

And Milton Keynes is a place I'd really hate to live in (and yes, I've been there, it was the nearest shopping centre to me for a couple of years).

"NIMBYism" is a phrase I despise, used to attack people who have the gall to care about their surroundings and area they live in. The pro-developers seem desperate to justify their utter lack of interest in the damage they cause and to dismiss anyone they upset (if they didn't they might have to feel guilty about the pain they cause). When they have the decency to do what I said - accept it's a necessary evil, acknowledge the damage they're doing even if it has to be done, and be determined that it's a one-off then an end to it, then they'll deserve some respect. But anyone who's not bothered about it is seriously damaged.

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50 minutes ago, Warlord said:

I'm glad he pushed through Brexit but yes, you're right... he seems to be maintaining the status quo though I new immigration laws are being drawn up so we'll have to see what they're proposing.  Slowly but surely the mess will be cleaned up .. as I said it'll take a generation 

COVID and all the debt they have taken on has not helped the situation 

Haha, ******ing delusional.

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1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

And Milton Keynes is a place I'd really hate to live in (and yes, I've been there, it was the nearest shopping centre to me for a couple of years).

"NIMBYism" is a phrase I despise, used to attack people who have the gall to care about their surroundings and area they live in. The pro-developers seem desperate to justify their utter lack of interest in the damage they cause and to dismiss anyone they upset (if they didn't they might have to feel guilty about the pain they cause). When they have the decency to do what I said - accept it's a necessary evil, acknowledge the damage they're doing even if it has to be done, and be determined that it's a one-off then an end to it, then they'll deserve some respect. But anyone who's not bothered about it is seriously damaged.

Sorry if I offended you!

Yes, we need to build, build, build but I dont sense this is going to happen? There is no urgency about it or energy to get it done. The tories seem to just be the status quo party.  If they do relax planning regs then that is a start but I don't sense any "vision" for what needs to be done....

 

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This government has been in power for 11 years.....plenty enough time to change things....if you like what they have done, how they do things, feel safe, feel happy and have hope for the future be thankful that they will then be in power for many years to come.....well done.;)

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1 minute ago, winkie said:

This government has been in power for 11 years.....plenty enough time to change things....if you like what they have done, how they do things, feel safe, feel happy and have hope for the future be thankful that they will then be in power for many years to come.....well done.;)

Like I said, they're status quo party and people seem happy with that. 

What can we do except moan...

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2 minutes ago, Warlord said:

Like I said, they're status quo party and people seem happy with that. 

What can we do except moan...

People moan because they are not happy......perhaps they have very low expectations about what to expect from  government, governments that are paid by us and work on our behalf.;)

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6 minutes ago, Warlord said:

Sorry if I offended you!

Not personally, I just find lots more building (and there's already a lot going on) very depressing - in the medically literal sense, and that the amount we've already got bad enough. I don't even like looking at old maps because the changes make me shake my head sadly. It's having a pretty destructive effect on my mental health, with absolutely no sign of anything to hope for in the future, no chance of a world I'd rather live in than the present one, and every sign of one that I'll like less and has been achieved by damaging some of what I really do appreciate, so I'll inevitably snap at anyone who's trying to create that future.

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

1000s of 'Spanish' South  Americans (citizenship doled out for Spanish building boom psot 2008, and to open up SA for Spanish banks). -

seems some of the "EU citizens" deported for trying to work here recently are actually brazilian citizens

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/17/handcuffed-detained-denied-medicine-eu-citizens-uk-border-ordeals

"Ana Silvestre, 20, an Italian and Brazilian dual national, was refused entry at Luton airport on 8 May together with her Brazilian husband. "

 

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8 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

seems some of the "EU citizens" deported for trying to work here recently are actually brazilian citizens

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/17/handcuffed-detained-denied-medicine-eu-citizens-uk-border-ordeals

"Ana Silvestre, 20, an Italian and Brazilian dual national, was refused entry at Luton airport on 8 May together with her Brazilian husband. "

 

Silvestre’s sister, who has lived in Liverpool for two years, said she received “no information whatsoever if they were OK or where they were” after their arrival until her sister called from a phone given to her at the centre the following morning.

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2 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Blair and Brown have been out of office for eleven years! Responsibility for the crisis belongs entirely with the present incumbents.

And Brexit, manifestly, has changed nothing.

Its more complex that.

Brown basically handed out a middle class income to 'poor' people i.e.  arbitrary deciding that people with school aged kids only needed to work ~16h/week to get a disposable income similar to someone i nthe 10% of earneers -

https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-truth-about-tax-credits

Each attempt to roll that back has been met by howls from the media and chattering who are clueless about how much he doled out.

My solution, now that the UK is out of the EU, is to adopt a Spanish style system.

Pro EEers cannot complain, as we a re basically copying the system from the country where the most UKers are -

https://rightcasa.com/brexit-info-how-much-money-will-uk-citizens-need-to-become-spanish-residents/

 €5,538 for an individual applicant
 €9,415 for families with two members
€13,292 for families with three members
€17,169 for families with four members
An extra €3,876 for each additional family member

Simply set a earning limit of 2k/m for an individual, then 1k/m for each additional family member.

 

 

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5 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Blair and Brown have been out of office for eleven years! Responsibility for the crisis belongs entirely with the present incumbents.

And Brexit, manifestly, has changed nothing.

Doesn’t stop Labour supporters still blaming Mrs Thatcher for all the nations woes - she left office 31 years ago!

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4 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

seems some of the "EU citizens" deported for trying to work here recently are actually brazilian citizens

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/17/handcuffed-detained-denied-medicine-eu-citizens-uk-border-ordeals

"Ana Silvestre, 20, an Italian and Brazilian dual national, was refused entry at Luton airport on 8 May together with her Brazilian husband. "

 

I expect all those British residents who had been legally banned from leaving the UK since 5 January until yesterday will be horrified at this treatment of people arriving here on non essential trips to visit their sister earlier this month!

My elderly mother hasn’t been able to visit her sister in the Republic of Ireland for 18 months due to travel restrictions and quarantine rules. 

So sorry if I couldn’t care less! Why were they even coming here at all?

 

Edited by MARTINX9
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