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Less global warning and failed states.

ME n African countries populations are out of control.

Just look at how Ethiopia's population has increased in 30 years. And how the country has sunk into various civil wars.

Need to replace Oxfam with Oxpill or Oxsnip.

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17 hours ago, spyguy said:

Less global warning and failed states.

ME n African countries populations are out of control.

Just look at how Ethiopia's population has increased in 30 years. And how the country has sunk into various civil wars.

Need to replace Oxfam with Oxpill or Oxsnip.

The best contraceptive is a combination of education, particularly for women, and wealth. 

The ME and Africa are not out of control they are closely following the path predicted by their levels of education and wealth.

There is lots of interesting stuff around on population levels and how birth rates across the world follow the same path.

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On 11/05/2021 at 15:44, spyguy said:

The are worried about having to actually pay for the public services. Either they pay for it, or the native Brits do. You can see why Brexit happened.

 

This is a good example of how questions about immigration are often questions about welfare reform.

'I was due an £82-a-week state pension but got nothing'

Quote

Bernie Weallans had a nagging feeling she was owed something from the state pension system.

The 73-year-old, who worked in the oil industry, did not qualify for a pension in her own right as most of her paid work was outside of the UK.

But having been married to British husband Martin, 70, for more than 40 years, she was actually entitled to a married woman's state pension when he retired.

A pension credit for taking time off work to raise children is one thing.  A pension credit just for being married to a Brit is something else.

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On 11/05/2021 at 15:58, spyguy said:

I also add -

Does this chart looks like it s stabiliest yet?

1.png

I think the UK should have just said -

OK, we have creating 3m places for EUerrs to remain.

Apply for them. When they are gone, they are gone.

Going by Boris' success beyond the red wall, a harsh migration stagey looks like a vote winner.

Lets assume that no new plans are going to be brought in deadlien is met.


How does Kier and the LibDems and the 3million going to think a tally of 6m plus a  couple of 2m more asking to to be allowed to stay as well?

 

 

 

 

The Tories don't mind. It keeps wages down and landlords fat bellies full.  To balance this (not) some brits are coming back from Spain etc cause they forgot to do the paperwork and a generations worth of emigrating retirees wont be going either, nor will any be moving to the EU to work as they did. A fk up all round. 

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1 hour ago, Will! said:

This is a good example of how questions about immigration are often questions about welfare reform.

'I was due an £82-a-week state pension but got nothing'

A pension credit for taking time off work to raise children is one thing.  A pension credit just for being married to a Brit is something else.

To be fair if she were a Brit she would have got the same.  I think there are many bad cases - but this is not the worst by a long way.  I know immigrants who are single parents who got £20k+ in their first year of being here (and they will get pension credits).

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18 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The best contraceptive is a combination of education, particularly for women, and wealth. 

The ME and Africa are not out of control they are closely following the path predicted by their levels of education and wealth.

There is lots of interesting stuff around on population levels and how birth rates across the world follow the same path.

Im not sure.

On one side, you have Has Rausling

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-39211144

Dont panic, nothing to worry about, etc.

However ...

I dont think the comparison to Europe/West, where population/children born fell off as more kids survived childhood.

My reason for thinking this is, in most of the West, the cost of the kids falls on the state / parents. Thats one massive contraceptive - you have the kid, you work n pay for it.

West/Europes population growth fell off before antibiotics and welfare.

However, in the developing world. more n more, the future/reason for having kids is to extract welfare or aid from the developed world.

Youve also got Islam in the mix.

A look at African and ME population growth in the last 30 years does not show it falling off in a lot of areas.

Sure, theres some places like Bangladesh . Yet, then theres the Rohinga (who are BD) and the same old population growth and chaos is well established.

And then theres the fkup that is Ethiopia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, steve99 said:

The Tories don't mind. It keeps wages down and landlords fat bellies full.  To balance this (not) some brits are coming back from Spain etc cause they forgot to do the paperwork and a generations worth of emigrating retirees wont be going either, nor will any be moving to the EU to work as they did. A fk up all round. 

Done  this to death - Labour on so many levels.

Cons were gormless on not shutting down TCs and migration in 2010. but they were in a coalition with LibDem and hugging hoodies.

Having an extra 15m-20m population, many doing low skilled low paid inwork top work makes vcoid recovery much harder.

Looking atthe Queens  speech on migration n all that, Id expect hefty changes after June, when the EU registry ends.

 

 

 

 

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10 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

To be fair if she were a Brit she would have got the same.  I think there are many bad cases - but this is not the worst by a long way.  I know immigrants who are single parents who got £20k+ in their first year of being here (and they will get pension credits).

Create the policies get the behaviours......no good blaming the people, blame those that enabled it if have to proportion blame.😉

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3 minutes ago, winkie said:

Create the policies get the behaviours......no good blaming the people, blame those that enabled it if have to proportion blame.😉

And also blame those that support it and stop the politicians from changing it. Saying that people should realize it is wrong to live off others' taxes.

19 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

The best contraceptive is a combination of education, particularly for women, and wealth. 

The ME and Africa are not out of control they are closely following the path predicted by their levels of education and wealth.

There is lots of interesting stuff around on population levels and how birth rates across the world follow the same path.

There are religions that support having lots of children, some catholics, orthodox Jews, Muslims, extreme protestants and of course in the UK there is a big number of single parent worshippers who think any cut on their benefits is evil.

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13 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

And also blame those that support it and stop the politicians from changing it. Saying that people should realize it is wrong to live off others' taxes.

There are religions that support having lots of children, some catholics, orthodox Jews, Muslims, extreme protestants and of course in the UK there is a big number of single parent worshippers who think any cut on their benefits is evil.

Surprisingly these factors plus others like war and famine  have almost no noticible long term effect on overal population growth. Education and wealth trumps everything else. 

The pathway to population stability and then decline is already baked in across most of the world. Africa will be the last big growth area. 

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32 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Surprisingly these factors plus others like war and famine  have almost no noticible long term effect on overal population growth. Education and wealth trumps everything else. 

The pathway to population stability and then decline is already baked in across most of the world. Africa will be the last big growth area. 

....and the Chinese know this.;)

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Michel Barnier class for a suspension of migration for 3-5 years whilst FOM is sorted out.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-barnier-backs-a-french-migration-ban

 

Rhymes with - 

EU referendum: Cameron in talks over migration 'brake'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35383014

 

With gormless neds based benefits, the UK was always going to be a lightening conductor on all things migration.

Et tu Frenchy?

And this is before the millions of EUers in UK are kicked out.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

another update - another 120k added

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/eu-settlement-scheme-statistics

equivalent to the population of York..

Russia is struggling with labour shortages after border closures to stem the spread of coronavirus sharply reduced the traditional cross-border migration flows from central Asia.

Both sides have come to rely on the movement of people. For Russia, migrants are a source of cheap labour for jobs that locals refuse to take on. For the central Asian states, migrants’ remittancescontribute a substantial chunk of their gross domestic product and their departure helps to reduce unemployment at home

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/c7c17f5e-e7b2-45bb-97d7-d5b456fb2bec

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

With or without the pissed up smoggies, out for a day out?

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/york-suffering-bad-karma-teesside-15310624

York is a beautiful city, my brothers both went to school there in a school founded by alcuin in the 8th century. We are very lucky it survived multiple attempts to bomb it during the “baedecker” raids by the nazis. Only a few historic buildings were hit.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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looks like the govts getting serious about work visa's

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/eu-citizens-arriving-in-uk-being-locked-up-and-expelled

Interesting that all the cases they discuss are people from southern europe trying to return to the uk to get work after leaving (after brexit?) and then presumably failing in eg Spain.

I wonder what the effect on the EU will be? the UK has functioned as something of a pressure relief valve on youth unemployment in much of the EU

The EU govt will of course blame Brexit for this stuff. We might be entering an interesting phase were instead of the UK govt blaming Brussels for its failings, we get Brussels blaming Brexit.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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On 11/05/2021 at 15:58, spyguy said:

I also add -

Does this chart looks like it s stabiliest yet?

1.png

I think the UK should have just said -

OK, we have creating 3m places for EUerrs to remain.

Apply for them. When they are gone, they are gone.

Going by Boris' success beyond the red wall, a harsh migration stagey looks like a vote winner.

Lets assume that no new plans are going to be brought in deadlien is met.


How does Kier and the LibDems and the 3million going to think a tally of 6m plus a  couple of 2m more asking to to be allowed to stay as well?

 

 

 

 

Been a week of 'Why am I being locked up in in a migration facility?'

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/eu-citizens-arriving-in-uk-being-locked-up-and-expelled

Confusion about whether EU citizens can explore the UK job market and then go home with an offer in order to apply for a work visa has added to the growing number of detentions. In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships.

What job market? There little during the pandemic for EUers.

Between them, María and Eugenia (who asked that their real names not be used) said they met a dozen other European citizens detained for similar reasons, accounting for half of the people in Gatwick’s detention rooms. They included two Spaniards with job interviews, a French woman with an internship and a Czech woman who had flown in from Mexico and was being sent back there.

“The Czech girl was desperate,” said Eugenia, who spent part of her 24 hours locked up in tears. “Like me, she knew we couldn’t start work immediately, but understood that you could look for jobs and come back to the UK later after obtaining a visa. When she offered to pay for a flight back to Prague, they said no – that they were expelling her to Mexico.”

Other travellers with Italian, Portuguese and eastern European passports were also being expelled.

Rules are rulls.

Eugenia said the experience was so traumatic that she had given up on trying to live with her boyfriend. “I’m not going back,” she said. “I don’t want to go through that again. The idea of moving to Britain appals me.”

Yeah ...

Eight MEPs have written to the European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, to express concern that the Home Office approach is in breach of the “spirit” of the Brexit deal.

“Sending young EU nationals to immigration detention centres is grossly disproportionate and breaches the spirit of good cooperation we would expect,” said Dacion Cioloș, president of the Renew Europe group of MEPs.

8 MEPS, from across EU?

https://www.politico.eu/article/mep-ursula-von-der-leyen-eu-nationals-uk-immigration-centers-dentention/amp/

LONDON — A group of MEPs urged European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen to press the U.K. to stop holding EU nationals in immigration centers.

At least 30 EU nationals from Germany, Greece, Italy, Spain and Romania have been held in immigration removal centers after being identified by U.K. border officials as intending to work in the country without a work visa, as revealed by POLITICO last week. The Commission said Monday this was a “consular issue” but expressed “concern” over the conditions and length of detention, which in some cases was four days or more.

But in a letter dated Wednesday, eight Romanian MEPs from the Renew Europe group called on von der Leyen and Commission Vice President Maroš Šefčovič to do more. The Commission should demand clarity from the U.K. government on the number of EU nationals detained at the borders and the reasons for adopting such measures, they wrote.

Ah, Romanian.

https://reneweuropegroup.eu/en/about-us/

At a time when the rule of law and democracy are under threat in parts of Europe, our Group will stand up for the people who suffer from the illiberal and nationalistic tendencies that we see returning in too many countries.
 
We thrive for a more prosperous Europe to the benefit of all Europeans. By investing in the talents of our citizens and unlocking the potential of Europe’s internal market. We strongly believe that economic growth, environmental sustainability, fair competition and responsibility go hand in hand.

Our mission is to Renew Europe. Because Europe is our future and is well worth fighting for !

So ... are you for or agin law???

Why arnt these young people going to continental Europe?

Araniya Kogulathas, a barrister with the NGO Bail for Immigration Detainees, said EU citizens were experiencing Britain’s hostile environment for immigration.

No, they are experience migration that was in place in the early 90s.

If they want to experience a hostile environment then Id suggest they take the plane to USA, Canada or Aus.

Eugenia said cabin staff on her return flight had seen several similar cases. Frontier police who met them at Barcelona confirmed this. “They didn’t understand why it was happening. British citizens entering Spain are not treated that way.”

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55530722

About 10 UK nationals resident in Spain say they were wrongly turned back when their flight landed in Barcelona.

They left Heathrow on the Saturday morning British Airways flight, but were refused entry on arrival.

They were stopped by border police and ultimately flown back to the UK.

Spain has banned all but Spanish nationals and residents flying from the UK to Spain since 22 December in the hope of containing the spread of the new UK strain of Covid-19.

https://rightcasa.com/brexit-info-how-much-money-will-uk-citizens-need-to-become-spanish-residents/

he route to Spanish residency is likely to look different for British citizens after the UK leaves the EU at the end of the year, and after 31st December 2020 the amount of money you have in your bank account (or your annual salary) is likely to determine whether your application for residency will be approved or not.

Effectively, if you want to be a Spanish resident then you need to demonstrate that you have a suitable income to support yourself, and any dependents that you would like to move to Spain with you. One of the stand out requirements of Spanish residency is having “sufficient income” or “sufficient resources” as well as having secured adequate healthcare coverage. This has always been the case, even before Brexit, but these minimum income requirements have rarely been enforced for EU nationals who moved under freedom of movement.

 

Now I assume uKGOV is waiting for the EU registration to end before they announce whats going to happen.

EU citizens have the right to remain; not the right to claim benefits.

AS the numbers registering get higher n higher, you can expect pretty harsh rules to be brought in.

Ideally they'll base it on Spains, which is he only country in where theres a notable number of Brits living.

 

And .Europe lurches down and down.

Another summer lost  for Spain and the rest of the Med.

Eurozone suffers double-dip recession as pandemic impact continues

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56940720

 

The google covid deaths are still stuck at the same levels as Jan.

UK deaths have fallen off, as the UK has vaccinated more and more people have been willing to be vaccinated.

Vaccine hesitancy in Europe is very high - 30%.

Despite the 'Boris has killed loads' the UK is going to come out of Covid with one of the lower deaths per capita.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

looks like the govts getting serious about work visa's

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/eu-citizens-arriving-in-uk-being-locked-up-and-expelled

Interesting that all the cases they discuss are people from southern europe trying to return to the uk to get work after leaving (after brexit?) and then presumably failing in eg Spain.

I wonder what the effect on the EU will be? the UK has functioned as something of a pressure relief valve on youth unemployment in much of the EU

The EU govt will of course blame Brexit for this stuff. We might be entering an interesting phase were instead of the UK govt blaming Brussels for its failings, we get Brussels blaming Brexit.

Ha!" Snap.

 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Been a week of 'Why am I being locked up in in a migration facility?'

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/13/eu-citizens-arriving-in-uk-being-locked-up-and-expelled

Confusion about whether EU citizens can explore the UK job market and then go home with an offer in order to apply for a work visa has added to the growing number of detentions. In other cases, visitors are clearly breaking rules, such as those now barring EU citizens from taking up unpaid internships.

 

 

 

 

Why do EU citizens want to come here?  I thought that the Euro was meant to create loads of jobs?

Is it because they are worried that global warming will make Spain or Italy too warm in the future?  Or do they like watching live county cricket or rugby union?

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17 hours ago, spyguy said:

Michel Barnier class for a suspension of migration for 3-5 years whilst FOM is sorted out.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/watch-barnier-backs-a-french-migration-ban

 

Rhymes with - 

EU referendum: Cameron in talks over migration 'brake'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35383014

 

With gormless neds based benefits, the UK was always going to be a lightening conductor on all things migration.

Et tu Frenchy?

And this is before the millions of EUers in UK are kicked out.

 

 

 

Nothing to do with EU nationals and FOM I think. He wants a migration ban from outside the Union plus stricter rules for family reunions etc. Also, this man is trying his luck with next year’s election in France I think. What he’s saying is basically let the med countries sort the mess out with immigrants, we won’t bother. 

 

Edited by NoHPCinTheUK
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2 hours ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Nothing to do with EU nationals and FOM I think. He wants a migration ban from outside the Union plus stricter rules for family reunions etc. Also, this man is trying his luck with next year’s election in France I think. What he’s saying is basically let the med countries sort the mess out with immigrants, we won’t bother. 

 

Oh it will.

This is just Barnier first pitch. see if he can get some traction.

Give a month and he'll be pitching for internal EU FOM changes.

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Oh it will.

This is just Barnier first pitch. see if he can get some traction.

Give a month and he'll be pitching for internal EU FOM changes.

 

 

 

Perhaps he is aware that now the UK is not available other wealthier states will come under pressure from those that would escape backward, corrupt states.

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