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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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3 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

Again, it the lack of ID cards and local registry which is the main culprit.

It's the lack of desire to do it. 

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Under EU rules you can remove someone who is economically in active if they are recent arrivals (i think 3 months?). In the UK it is impossible to prove when someone arrived! All they need to do is to tell the police they have been here for 6 months looking for work and there is not much the police can do.

Other than get the data from the border agency, which the police can do, which will have a record of date of entry. You do talk some nonsense at times. It's on exit that the UK fails to track as the border agency doesn't do that, although it has been talked about for a decade. 

Not that tracking whether someone has been in the UK for three months and not found work is or would ever have been the purview of the police, you'd have expected the border agency to have shared it with itself for that if there had been any interest in doing so. 

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Okay another Huge increase im registrations, to 5.06M

or including eire citizens 5.4-5.5M an increase of 0.3M or so over the last figures in less than a month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/eu-settlement-scheme-statistics

This is getting crazy, clearly it is going to turn out, like many on here have said, that the EU citizen population of the UK is of the order 6-7M (possibly more) 2-3 times what were told in 2016

do we espect an apology from thos on here who called us paranoid etc?  no chance of that

Why does it matter?

a. the govt was lying through its teeth, this matters

b how on earth are we supposed to understand the impact of this kind of thing on services if we cannot quantify it?

c. If they are leaving, as remainers say, what was the true number!!!

 

it also means (allowing for illegals) it is quite possible the UK is the most populous country in western europe ffs, madness.

 

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1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

Okay another Huge increase im registrations, to 5.06M

or including eire citizens 5.4-5.5M an increase of 0.5M or so over the last figures.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/eu-settlement-scheme-statistics

This is getting crazy, clearly it is going to turn out, like many on here have said, that the EU citizen population of the UK is of the order 6-7M (possibly more) 2-3 times what were told in 2016

do we espect an apology from thos on here who called us paranoid etc?  no chance of that

Why does it matter?

a. the govt was lying through its teeth, this matters

b how on earth are we supposed to understand the impact of this kind of thing on services if we cannot quantify it?

c. If they are leaving, as remainers say, what was the true number!!!

 

it also means (allowing for illegals) it is quite possible the UK is the most populous country in western europe ffs, madness.

 

Have you got a link for what was claimed to be the figures in 2016?

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3 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

Okay another Huge increase im registrations, to 5.06M

or including eire citizens 5.4-5.5M an increase of 0.3M or so over the last figures in less than a month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/eu-settlement-scheme-statistics

This is getting crazy, clearly it is going to turn out, like many on here have said, that the EU citizen population of the UK is of the order 6-7M (possibly more) 2-3 times what were told in 2016

do we espect an apology from thos on here who called us paranoid etc?  no chance of that

Why does it matter?

a. the govt was lying through its teeth, this matters

b how on earth are we supposed to understand the impact of this kind of thing on services if we cannot quantify it?

c. If they are leaving, as remainers say, what was the true number!!!

 

it also means (allowing for illegals) it is quite possible the UK is the most populous country in western europe ffs, madness.

 

Does this count both permanent and temporary status?

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10 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Does this count both permanent and temporary status?

Temporary should be included if it's a permanent total (e.g. a constant +whateveritis if for every student that leaves at the end of a course another arrives - the individuals change, the number doesn't).

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1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

Temporary should be included if it's a permanent total (e.g. a constant +whateveritis if for every student that leaves at the end of a course another arrives - the individuals change, the number doesn't).

No. There are two possible outcomes when you apply for this scheme permanent and temporary. People receiving the temporary permit might apply for the permanent if they meet the criteria. So is 5 million the sum of all application of the the number of individuals who have applied?

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1 minute ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

No. There are two possible outcomes when you apply for this scheme permanent and temporary. People receiving the temporary permit might apply for the permanent if they meet the criteria. So is 5 million the sum of all application of the the number of individuals who have applied?

Maybe I shouldn't have just skim-read a couple of recent posts - are we talking about a one-off temporary status (a year or two to sort out affairs and then move out), or something that more people will constantly be applying for?

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7 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Im not sure it came from anywhere official.

Just 3m bandied about

Hence:

https://www.the3million.org.uk/

 

There were about ~2m EUers in the UKL before EE FOM.

Id guess 1m was bolted on as a guesstimate

 

That website is a bit weird one one link says

https://us13.campaign-archive.com/?u=9c20dec826b5110f3a7f5e9bc&id=07b68e9881

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The charity Settled is designed to help EU citizens most at-risk of being left behind and they have an extensive help guide in 15 languages, including Arabic, Russian, Somali and 12 other European languages to give some guidelines:

I don't realize that Arabic or Somali were European languages.  Why do EU citizens need advice in these languages?

Surely for example Dutch citizens here would find Dutch better than Somali (the same for all other EU citizens)

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don't forget they have another 5 months to register so 6 million a possibility and don't forget the 3.5 million HK Chinese and then all their relatives will be coming as many of these will be single initially and then will invite heir spouses and families o come over as we did for the Asian communities and Commonwealth countries like S Africa, Zimbabwee, Nigeria etc.

I anticipate with illegal immigration we could have real problems with the funding of schools/NHS but hey they will all be paying into the tax pot more than they take out so we will be able to have a low tax economy as we become the Singapore on sea. 

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On 24/02/2020 at 11:04, Dorkins said:

Latest statistical release here: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/865367/eu-settlement-scheme-statistics-january-2020.pdf

So far 3.1m applications received. The reporting period covers January 2020 so presumably there would have been a spike due to the UK leaving the EU at the end of that month.

Still no sign of any data supporting your claim earlier on the thread that the official statistics are 2-3-fold underestimating the number of EU citizens living in the UK.

That didnt age well.

 

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3 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Have you got a link for what was claimed to be the figures in 2016?

fact check by the bbc July 2016

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-uk-leaves-the-eu-36745584

defo no more than 2.9M

eligilbility settled status is lived here  6 months/year for 5 years or british spouse.

 

Edited by debtlessmanc
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2 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

That website is a bit weird one one link says

https://us13.campaign-archive.com/?u=9c20dec826b5110f3a7f5e9bc&id=07b68e9881

I don't realize that Arabic or Somali were European languages.  Why do EU citizens need advice in these languages?

Because a few are EU citizens but from non-integrated communities in EU nations. In a similar vein, I don't think Cliff Richard's Hindi is probably that great. 

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2 hours ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Because a few are EU citizens but from non-integrated communities in EU nations. In a similar vein, I don't think Cliff Richard's Hindi is probably that great. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/british-dream-europe-african-citizens

one half of the Dutch somali community moved to the uk as soon as they got EU citizenship. The problem is that the Dutch insist you learn Dutch, the Somalis mostly already speak some English and do not want to bother learning another language.

same in most of the EU, outside EU migrants often only really want to learn English, often they really want to be in the US, Canada or Oz and the UK is seen as the next logical move.

The EU states themselves, one suspects, are happy to see the back of them and at the same time claim to be doing their bit for asylum seekers.

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2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/british-dream-europe-african-citizens

one half of the Dutch somali community moved to the uk as soon as they got EU citizenship. The problem is that the Dutch insist you learn Dutch, the Somalis mostly already speak some English and do not want to bother learning another language.

Especially one that needs so much phlegm :). 

Actually, I don't have an issue with The Netherlands and my wife would have been relatively happy with idea of moving there as although she understands German her native language is English and in places like Amsterdam a lot of people speak English. In Germany younger people do too. Put it this way, my German is so accented I can't even fool anyone with 'Hallo' and they swap to English just at the point I am managing to tell them about my fish-filled hovercraft. 

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57 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Especially one that needs so much phlegm :). 

Actually, I don't have an issue with The Netherlands and my wife would have been relatively happy with idea of moving there as although she understands German her native language is English and in places like Amsterdam a lot of people speak English. In Germany younger people do too. Put it this way, my German is so accented I can't even fool anyone with 'Hallo' and they swap to English just at the point I am managing to tell them about my fish-filled hovercraft. 

I used to go to the netherland very regularly (week at a time several times a year) in the noughties, to a lab. Dutch people would tell me in the pub that they were fed up with migrants who just existed speaking english to everyone not bothering to learn Dutch. People talk about the hangover of the British empire, truth is it it affects us all.

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20 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

I used to go to the netherland very regularly (week at a time several times a year) in the noughties, to a lab. Dutch people would tell me in the pub that they were fed up with migrants who just existed speaking english to everyone not bothering to learn Dutch. People talk about the hangover of the British empire, truth is it it affects us all.

Fair point. I would have made an effort, but it's also nice to not be completely adrift. 

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1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

I used to go to the netherland very regularly (week at a time several times a year) in the noughties, to a lab. Dutch people would tell me in the pub that they were fed up with migrants who just existed speaking english to everyone not bothering to learn Dutch. People talk about the hangover of the British empire, truth is it it affects us all.

But do they talk to foreigners who don't speak good Dutch in English or Dutch?  If English they can't complain about people not speaking Dutch.

 

2 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/28/british-dream-europe-african-citizens

one half of the Dutch somali community moved to the uk as soon as they got EU citizenship. The problem is that the Dutch insist you learn Dutch, the Somalis mostly already speak some English and do not want to bother learning another language.

same in most of the EU, outside EU migrants often only really want to learn English, often they really want to be in the US, Canada or Oz and the UK is seen as the next logical move.

The EU states themselves, one suspects, are happy to see the back of them and at the same time claim to be doing their bit for asylum seekers.

Not true in Germany of course Angela Merkel said that they will make Germany rich - fortunately for Germany it will be harder to lose them to the UK in future.

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6 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

But do they talk to foreigners who don't speak good Dutch in English or Dutch?  If English they can't complain about people not speaking Dutch.

What they complained about was just that, that the immigrants behaved live british tourists, talking loudly in english to be understood and not caring about the local culture.

The dutch are happy to be bilingual as they view that as globalist. their migrants just do not care about the dutch speaking bit.

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10 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

What they complained about was just that, that the immigrants behaved live british tourists, talking loudly in english to be understood and not caring about the local culture.

The dutch are happy to be bilingual as they view that as globalist. their migrants just do not care about the dutch speaking bit.

Some of the migrants. There have been plenty over the last fifty years that learned it. 

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7 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Some of the migrants. There have been plenty over the last fifty years that learned it. 

There are i believe (i was told by the dutch) 100M people around the world who theoretically speak Dutch (their former colonies). However, the world has changed in the last 50 years, speaking English is the way forward now, our colonies won that argument. A good examples is French speaking Canada that takes in eg Cambodian or Vietnamese migrants who tick the migration boxes to say they are francophone. When they get to Quebec city, they stay their long enough to get citizenship then move to Toronto or Vancouver and speak english from then on.

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Just now, debtlessmanc said:

There are i believe (i was told by the dutch) 100M people around the world who theoretically speak Dutch (their former colonies). However, the world has changed in the last 50 years, speaking English is the way forward now, our colonies won that argument. A good examples is French speaking Canada that takes in eg Cambodian or Vietnamese migrants who tick the migration boxes to say they are francophone. When they get to Quebec city, they stay their long enough to get citizenship then move to Toronto or Vancouver and speak english from then on.

Some from the Dutch East Indies that moved to the Netherlands as recently as the 1970s speak Dutch, and that wouldn't have been their first language. I knew a couple of people who'd moved there and they learned Dutch. After a week there I can nearly read the newspapers, although I am sure I miss all the idioms and jokes, but I can get the basics of a story. No idea what anyone's saying, though. 

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9 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

There are i believe (i was told by the dutch) 100M people around the world who theoretically speak Dutch (their former colonies). However, the world has changed in the last 50 years, speaking English is the way forward now, our colonies won that argument. A good examples is French speaking Canada that takes in eg Cambodian or Vietnamese migrants who tick the migration boxes to say they are francophone. When they get to Quebec city, they stay their long enough to get citizenship then move to Toronto or Vancouver and speak english from then on.

I've heard a French speaker say Quebecois French hurt their ears :) but it's probably just an ossified version, in the way Americans say sassy, which is derived from an earlier pronunciation of what we use as saucy. If Phil from Time Team was saying saucy it would be halfway to sassy. 

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17 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

I've heard a French speaker say Quebecois French hurt their ears :) but it's probably just an ossified version, in the way Americans say sassy, which is derived from an earlier pronunciation of what we use as saucy. If Phil from Time Team was saying saucy it would be halfway to sassy. 

Quebecois is painful to hear to the french speakers. It is very difficult for the european french speaker to understand (eg me, very hard work). The french generally view them quite distantly. But the Quebecois are nuts about their culture. It is illegal for a french speaking couple in montreal to send their children to an english speaking school! There is an analogy with the scottish here, Quebec has had numerous referenda on cessation over the years, always narrowly lost, as there are just enough Quebecois who realise what a disaster it would be. The genius was Trudeau (Pierre) who made Canada officially bilingual. Instantly the Civil service was dominated by french canadians who wanted to maintain the status quo.

 

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