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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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19 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Good explanation however one reason why demand in cities increased was because of people coming to the UK.

And by and large, they do so because there are jobs. 

19 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

In some cases these people got social housing

Not many, as there wouldn't be entitlement. 

19 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

and increased the demand for private rent so fuelling BTL.

If the work was there to pull people in then we may also have seen domestic migration to fill them, so it's not clear to me how less immigration would have changed demand in those areas. If anything, the effect may have been more reducing internal migration and putting a floor under prices in places like Blackpool or Middlesbrough rather than in London. 

19 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

 

 

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11 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

We speak English is also a huge effect, i was contacted by a Syrian researcher in Norway asking for a job in 2019. I asked him why he wanted to move given it was such a wealthy country, he replied that they had looked into staying in Norway but they would make his whole family learn norwegian "what use is that to us?".

That's something I've noted before. Foreigners often know English as a second language so it makes the UK a useful destination in the first place, as it's the language of business. I've been to companies in Europe where there has been a diversity of nationalities, and English has been the office working language. When considering moving, those are the places I was looking at for employment as while I can get by in a cafe or discussing pens my aunt may or may not have in France or Germany (and I found I could read the newspaper a bit in The Netherlands), technical discussions would be more difficult. 

I'm not sure my schoolboy Latin or Classical Greek would be much use. I did manage to fairly quickly learn enough Norwegian to get by in a cafe but I skipped the detailed exposition of writing implements. Maybe I could have at least got a coffee in Sweden or Denmark. I've watched enough 'Beck' and other Scandinavian crime dramas that I think I might be able to lead a crime scene investigation too. 😊

Edited by NobodyInParticular
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13 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

No I am not

"Because the Somalis we spoke to were European rather than British citizens however, the vote for Britain to leave the European Union threw any sense of ‘home’ or belonging they had into disarray."

Asylum seekers are never secondary migrants

Right, so you aren't talking about Somalis, you are talking about Europeans. Make your mind up. 

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16 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Right, so you aren't talking about Somalis, you are talking about Europeans. Make your mind up. 

The article is talking about Somalis who came here as European citizens and get income support.

https://www.thesociologicalreview.com/brexit-birmingham-and-belonging-anxieties-about-home-among-secondary-migrant-somali-families/

Please read it

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27 minutes ago, NobodyInParticular said:

And by and large, they do so because there are jobs. 

Not many, as there wouldn't be entitlement. 

If the work was there to pull people in then we may also have seen domestic migration to fill them, so it's not clear to me how less immigration would have changed demand in those areas. If anything, the effect may have been more reducing internal migration and putting a floor under prices in places like Blackpool or Middlesbrough rather than in London. 

 

Do you really believe that EU and other immigrants don't get council housing?  I bought my flat from a Spaniard who bought it under right to buy

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1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

Do you really believe that EU and other immigrants don't get council housing?

Did I say that? No I did not. 

However, there seems to be a presumption that someone arriving from Romania who is poor has a right to one (they don't) and will get one (unlikely) when the arrive. Done may eventually be housed this way, but not in the short to medium term. 

1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

I bought my flat from a Spaniard who bought it under right to buy

And? 

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1 minute ago, NobodyInParticular said:

Did I say that? No I did not. 

However, there seems to be a presumption that someone arriving from Romania who is poor has a right to one (they don't) and will get one (unlikely) when the arrive. Done may eventually be housed this way, but not in the short to medium term. 

And? 

So you do believe that EU immigrants get subsidized housing then?

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7 hours ago, NobodyInParticular said:

That's something I've noted before. Foreigners often know English as a second language so it makes the UK a useful destination in the first place, as it's the language of business. I've been to companies in Europe where there has been a diversity of nationalities, and English has been the office working language. When considering moving, those are the places I was looking at for employment as while I can get by in a cafe or discussing pens my aunt may or may not have in France or Germany (and I found I could read the newspaper a bit in The Netherlands), technical discussions would be more difficult. 

I'm not sure my schoolboy Latin or Classical Greek would be much use. I did manage to fairly quickly learn enough Norwegian to get by in a cafe but I skipped the detailed exposition of writing implements. Maybe I could have at least got a coffee in Sweden or Denmark. I've watched enough 'Beck' and other Scandinavian crime dramas that I think I might be able to lead a crime scene investigation too. 😊

I think for people of non-european heritage migrating for work with further moves kept as an option it is more a case of, as i say, "What is the point" i can see a British person being curious about norwegian, given historical connections. A syrian not so much.

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Just now, debtlessmanc said:

I think for people of non-european heritage migrating for work with further moves kept as an option it is more a case of, as i say, "What is the point" i can see a British person being curious about norwegian, given historical connections. A syrian not so much.

I have family in Norway, so Norwegian makes sense for me (in terms of learning it, I'm not saying the language always makes sense). You are spot on with regards to a Syrian. 

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3 hours ago, NobodyInParticular said:

I have family in Norway, so Norwegian makes sense for me (in terms of learning it, I'm not saying the language always makes sense). You are spot on with regards to a Syrian. 

IMHO It is in some ways an easy and difficult language.  Conjugations simple (well not really existing) but definite and indefinite case tricky for many people whose first language is English.

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23 hours ago, debtlessmanc said:

We speak English is also a huge effect, i was contacted by a Syrian researcher in Norway asking for a job in 2019. I asked him why he wanted to move given it was such a wealthy country, he replied that they had looked into staying in Norway but they would make his whole family learn norwegian "what use is that to us?".

Things can change so fast, if the pandemic accelerates too much they will not let the Syrians leave, a bit like our friend Kim who does not want an empty North Korea

Edited by shlomo
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1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

IMHO It is in some ways an easy and difficult language.  Conjugations simple (well not really existing) but definite and indefinite case tricky for many people whose first language is English.

I'm prepared to ignore articles if it gets me coffee 😊 a/the/an coffee. 

Edited by NobodyInParticular
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Another huge increase int he settlement scheme

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/eu-settlement-scheme-statistics

up 400k from December the total number of EU citizens (adding in the 400k or so Eire citizens) is now 5.3M or so, well over twice the number bandied around in 2016

The brexit deal will convince many who were wavering to register and stay i suspect there will be some more big increases in the next few months perhaps 6M, this would put the true population of the UK at over 70M perhaps.

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The unprecedented, extreme population explosion and cheap labour ponzi scheme, which was all opaque, is in large part why people gambled to throw away EU membership (even with its positive aspects and streamlining external trade).

Edited by Big Orange
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On 19/02/2020 at 20:59, spyguy said:

Surprising or not, i know a lit of europeans, mrs spy being both italian n a teacher.

Spanish waiter? Nope. Lots of 30+ student. I cant think of any job that has a notable number of spanish. There are a *lot* of south americans whove soanush passport who then vome to uk to work in liw paid tax credit subed jobs in london.

Polish carer? Nope. I know one Pole whos on good money. The rest are in low paid parttime work. The local sklep seems to have a never ending number of workers on TCs.

Romanian nurse. Nope. Portugese nurse yes.

German farmer? Really? Can you point me me to one?

Portugese teacher. None that i know of. As mentioned , lots of portguese nurses. Tge blokes dont seem to do much.

Greek engineer? Can you point me to one?

Swedish driver?? Lorry? Train? I know two swedes in the local are^a. Ines a phsio, tge other lives off hubbys money. Professionally, i know a few swede software.

Hes missed the latvuan n lithunain criminals. And balkan gangs n dealers.

Before teaching the world to sing, he needs to have a look at uk crim pop

https://fullfact.org/crime/eu-prisoners/

Conviction of EErs is very low as the crimes are mainly in the communities.

Theres several hundred EE bodies stuffed in hedges n woods around the uk. Tgey keep cropping up everynow n then, when rover goes rumnaging.

15 years too late ukgov is starting to monitor euers by the settlement application.

https://www.gov.uk/entering-staying-uk/settlement

Its up to 3m, the  umber of euers meant to be living in the uk.

However none of mrs spys ee families have registered.

Watch as the number goes well over 5m.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 19/02/2020 at 21:27, slawek said:

You shouldn't take this tweet so literally. Examples you gave are just your personal experience, not representative of the real situation. For an example you claim that there are no Romanian nurses it is completely wrong, see the table below.

People from the EU works in all kind of jobs, you can't make any claims based on their nationalities. My accountant is Polish, a woman running nursery was Polish, my GP is German. People working in the City (traders, sales, quants, IT) are from all over the EU, German, Ireland, French, Italy, Poland,  Spain, Netherlands, Austria.

Your claim that there is 5-10mln EUs in the UK is simply crazy.   

image.png.43d04eae21e5cdbf82c55646ecf79a10.png

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7783/CBP-7783.pdf

My comment was just 12 months ago - Jan 20.

I was called crazy then.

My original post on this topic was just over 5 years ago:

 

 

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Well if you know one Pole on good money that means that you have very limited network of personal contacts, nothing else. Anecdotal evidence means here the same as it does anywhere else that is f all. Maybe you could meet more rich Poles living in Britain if you moved out of your council bedsit in Burnley you are currently occupying?

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8 hours ago, spyguy said:

 

My comment was just 12 months ago - Jan 20.

I was called crazy then.

My original post on this topic was just over 5 years ago:

 

 

Let me explain it to you once again.

4.4m number doesn't tell you how many EUs are in the UK now or were at any specific time. It is greater because of at least two reasons

1. Settled status counts people who were in the UK at some point, not those who are in.  There was a constant stream of people coming to the UK and leaving the UK. Those who left are include in 4.4m. You can even apply for the status from abroad.  From 4.4m only 2.4m have settled status (they have been in the UK for at least 5 years), the rest 1.9m could have been for a very brief period in the past. 

2. The 4.4m number also include non-EUs, wives and children of EUs.     

 

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Its does not matter if the EUers family is non EU. They are here due to the EU status of the parent.

 

AFAIK settled status requires the person to be resident in the UK.

You are not going to apply for it if you are living in Warsaw and fancy rocking up a few years later.

You said:

Your claim that there is 5-10mln EUs in the UK is simply crazy.   

 

Figure1_Q3Nov2020.png

That chart shows no sign of levelling off.

 

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12 hours ago, spyguy said:

Its does not matter if the EUers family is non EU. They are here due to the EU status of the parent.

 

AFAIK settled status requires the person to be resident in the UK.

You are not going to apply for it if you are living in Warsaw and fancy rocking up a few years later.

You said:

Your claim that there is 5-10mln EUs in the UK is simply crazy.   

 

Figure1_Q3Nov2020.png

That chart shows no sign of levelling off.

 

You have ignored my main point that many people who got a settled/pre-settled status have left the UK already.  My guess is that is around 1-2m, which mean that the number of the EUs in the UK is more like 3m.  

ONS estimates that roughly 150k EUs emigrate from the UK each year. That is around 700k since the referendum. There is also an estimation that in 2020 alone over 1.3m foreigners left the UK. You like anecdotal evidence, here is one for you.  From three EU families I know two left the UK since the referendum. I am sure they have got the settled status before leaving as they have been here more than 5 years.  

You are wrong that you can't apply for the settled/pre-settled status from abroad. It is enough to be in the UK only one day before 31/12/2020 and in the last 6 months to be eligible. 

You can apply for status under the EU Settlement Scheme from outside the UK.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/eu-settlement-scheme-applying-from-outside-the-uk

To get pre-settled status, you only need to show you’ve lived in the UK for at least 1 day that was both:

  • on or before 31 December 2020
  • in the last 6 months before you applied

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/immigration/staying-in-the-uk-after-brexit/preparing-to-apply-for-pre-settled-and-settled-status/

I still maintain that you claim that there are 5-10m EUs in the UK is crazy. The number of concluded applications for a settled status is not a proxy for the number of the EUs in the UK.

As for leveling off the graph, the number of the applications has been heavily impacted by the pandemic so you can't read much from it.  There is a dip in April which corresponds to the first lockdown. This is consistent with my claim that many applications are just people coming to the UK for a short period of time. The lockdown has stopped this, a later bounce back is a result of people being able to travel again.  

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On 21/01/2021 at 11:20, Big Orange said:

The unprecedented, extreme population explosion and cheap labour ponzi scheme, which was all opaque, is in large part why people gambled to throw away EU membership (even with its positive aspects and streamlining external trade).

Yes, it has been the same throughout history. Wars have been fought over immigration and fear of the outsider.

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