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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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2 hours ago, MancTom said:

What does that even mean? Most people on benefits do work already - the benefit is to top up the too low salary from e.g. Tesco.

Are you sure there are actually enough people fully on benefits capable of working to replace all the immigrants being sent home?

........how about companies paying their staff more and their shareholders less?

Agree with the lack of TRAINING everywhere both public and private sector.....a disgrace.

Lack of training when changing a career course in mid life.......there is none.?

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4 minutes ago, slawek said:

Most of those business will go bust, they exists only because of cheap labour. It would be cheaper to import their products or demand would reduce because of higher prices. Additionally less people means lower GDP if not countered by increased productivity or working time.

I think there is a little chance for the UK to suddenly become a highly efficient and modern economy with hard working and highly skilled workforce. This is a slow process which requires highly motivated people. It should start with children keen on learning maths, science, technology. However there is no chance for this, kids are more interested in being celebrities, there is no ethos of learning,  there are no right teachers. In the UK it is much easier to make money on properties than any productive activity. Taxation system is set up to punish working people.             

Zombie businesses living from a lifeline of cheap credit and low paid workers.....but the big boys would love to kill the smaller business more business for them.....always consequences from actions......like there will be negative consequences from any new policies including this.?

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Just now, Riedquat said:

That's certainly true. It's very starkly illustrated by all the closed-minded bigotry from the more loudmouthed Remainers.

Um, I guess you feel a great deal of sympathy for Andrew Sabisky. As with your twisted logic, he's one of the good guys?

 

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34 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

Um, I guess you feel a great deal of sympathy for Andrew Sabisky. As with your twisted logic, he's one of the good guys?

Huh? That has precisely what to do with what I said?

Oh, hang on, sorry, I forgot the "logic" you're supposed to use these days - stick to extremes  - one side is always good, one side is always bad, so if you can find anything on the other side to support that simplistic attitude you can sit back smugly in the certain knowledge that you're unquestionably correct. No self-reflection or consideration of the possibility of your own dirty laundry required.

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One thing that has not be discussed or mentioned is these people with the skills we require from throughout the world if they get their 70 points and meet the income....what about their families, wife and kids or parents? Surely anyone coming to live and work who has a family will want to bring them with them, will their salary support??

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1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

Huh? That has precisely what to do with what I said?

Oh, hang on, sorry, I forgot the "logic" you're supposed to use these days - stick to extremes  - one side is always good, one side is always bad, so if you can find anything on the other side to support that simplistic attitude you can sit back smugly in the certain knowledge that you're unquestionably correct. No self-reflection or consideration of the possibility of your own dirty laundry required.

I said the UK is more racist since the referendum. It is. As perceived by the rest of the world.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/06/26/a-sharp-spike-in-racist-incidents-reported-after-the-brexit-vote/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48692863

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/brexit-day-nigel-farage-leavers-true-colours-1-6504412

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/uk-more-racist-after-brexit-qb7hd7xl7

https://www.opinium.co.uk/racism-rising-since-brexit-vote/

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0214-5

https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/projects/uk-international-challenges-16-does-brexit-trigger-racism-experiment-among-british-and-europeans-residents-uk

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/315966240_Racial_violence_and_the_Brexit_state

https://qz.com/1582231/brexit-is-killing-off-one-of-the-most-enduring-british-stereotypes/

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3011070/racism-rise-uk-brexit-vote-study-reveals

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/28/subjected-racism-since-brexit-rest-career-altogether-former/

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/uk-decade-brexit-200131052333187.html

https://time.com/5749636/marginalized-communities-uk-election-results/
 

Do you honestly think remainers suddenly got a licence to be more racist on 23rd June 2016? That they've been waiting for 40 years to come out the closet of hate?

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4 hours ago, Peter Hun said:

You force them to do it by withdrawing benefits if they refuse. Work or starve. After that, the unemployed can be shipped to where the jobs are and accommodated in dormitories.

Yes - we need immigrants to do the jobs which are beneath us? How insulting and frankly racist! How on earth did we cope pre 2004?

Or you make it worth the while of UK nationals by paying wages high enough so they can afford to pay their housing and other living costs and have more to spare - and thus be much better off working than on welfare. 

It’s tiring seeing so many on the supposedly liberal left implying the UK working classes are all lazy and feckless. Give em a hand up rather than a hand out and who knows they might surprise you!

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4 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

Yes - we need immigrants to do the jobs which are beneath us? How insulting and frankly racist! How on earth did we cope pre 2004?

Or you make it worth the while of UK nationals by paying wages high enough so they can afford to pay their housing and other living costs and have more to spare - and thus be much better off working than on welfare. 

It’s tiring seeing so many on the supposedly liberal left implying the UK working classes are all lazy and feckless. Give em a hand up rather than a hand out and who knows they might surprise you!

Got to laugh at the simultaneous "British are lazy and feckless" and "those foreigners can do the jobs we're too good for" that we keep getting from the supposed liberals.

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3 hours ago, Chunketh said:

Sounds a bit like the workhouses. JRM will be cumming in his pants.

Benefits are already stopped if you refuse work. Forcing the unemployed to relocate to where the jobs are is not much of a stretch for the Eton set.

Workers rights will be ditched at the end of the year so expect the worse.

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25 minutes ago, jonb2 said:

And yet this survey bt the EU from 2018 (so post the vote) shows the UK to have the second lowest rate of racist attacks against african people in the whole EU

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/28/people-of-african-descent-face-dire-picture-of-racism-in-eu

 

whats the truth eh Jon? could it be confirmation bias plays a role here?

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15 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

Yes - we need immigrants to do the jobs which are beneath us? How insulting and frankly racist! How on earth did we cope pre 2004?

Or you make it worth the while of UK nationals by paying wages high enough so they can afford to pay their housing and other living costs and have more to spare - and thus be much better off working than on welfare. 

It’s tiring seeing so many on the supposedly liberal left implying the UK working classes are all lazy and feckless. Give em a hand up rather than a hand out and who knows they might surprise you!

 

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'Make work pay'.......when work often does not pay, why work when anyone in he recent past has made more buying property and sitting on that than working........many more would do many more types of work if the pay was a living wage when it is not, often hard boring, mundane work with no authority to make decisions, no onward promotion prospects, dealing with difficult public, wiping and cleaning other people's sh!t and mess, sometimes the work is dangerous, working with mechanical equipment and at hights.....a 40 hour low paid job is much harder and worth more than very many jobs sitting in nice warm offices having a chat around the coffee machine, with permission to go to the toilet without having to ask.....?

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2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

And yet this survey bt the EU from 2018 (so post the vote) shows the UK to have the second lowest rate of racist attacks against african people in the whole EU

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/28/people-of-african-descent-face-dire-picture-of-racism-in-eu

 

whats the truth eh Jon? could it be confirmation bias plays a role here?

DM.

The truth is that Brexit has allowed a lot of people out of the woodwork. It's given them an ever-louder voice. Something we should be worried about. Clearly the current government doesn't give a toss about. In fact it suits their divide and rule tactics. With their choice of SPADs and cosying up to fascists like Orban.

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5 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

Yes - we need immigrants to do the jobs which are beneath us? How insulting and frankly racist! How on earth did we cope pre 2004?

Or you make it worth the while of UK nationals by paying wages high enough so they can afford to pay their housing and other living costs and have more to spare - and thus be much better off working than on welfare. 

It’s tiring seeing so many on the supposedly liberal left implying the UK working classes are all lazy and feckless. Give em a hand up rather than a hand out and who knows they might surprise you!

UK workers are neither lazy or feckless. They work some of the longest hours in the developed world for very little reward.

They are, however, finite in number. The UK economy has been operating at full capacity for many years, generating an excess of demand that would have been impossible to satisfy without immigration. Hence the record employment rates since 2015 and simultaneously a record number of job vacancies.

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6 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

UK workers are neither lazy or feckless. They work some of the longest hours in the developed world for very little reward.

They are, however, finite in number. The UK economy has been operating at full capacity for many years, generating an excess of demand that would have been impossible to satisfy without immigration. Hence the record employment rates since 2015 and simultaneously a record number of job vacancies.

So how many people do we need, even though we've got more than ever? If what you say is the case then adding more will just shift up again until we're back in the same situation, with even more people. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum, or until it gets unbearable even for those who don't currently have a problem with population levels.

What you're describing is a problem with how our economy functions, not a problem with the lack of people (and of those working ones just look how many are in insecure non-jobs).

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1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

So how many people do we need, even though we've got more than ever? If what you say is the case then adding more will just shift up again until we're back in the same situation, with even more people. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum, or until it gets unbearable even for those who don't currently have a problem with population levels.

What you're describing is a problem with how our economy functions, not a problem with the lack of people (and of those working ones just look how many are in insecure non-jobs).

I'm just describing the economy as it's currently organised, Riedquat. I accept that it's utterly dysfunctional. A national tragedy.

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33 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Benefits are already stopped if you refuse work. Forcing the unemployed to relocate to where the jobs are is not much of a stretch for the Eton set.

Workers rights will be ditched at the end of the year so expect the worse.

"People must go to where the jobs are."  M. Thatcher. 1980s.

Why exactly?  Employers set up the cotton industry near to soft water.  Location of an industry needs to take account of many factors, obviously.

Firm I worked for tried getting people to go to where the jobs were,  i.e. London. Complete and utter failure, rents too high, wages too low.

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10 hours ago, regprentice said:

Employers and the government seem to look on part-time work as 'pocket money' to supplement benefits. 

One of the bigger issues that was just beginning to get mentioned at the end of the last election campaign was Underemployment. My wife and two of her friends work for different employers, one a council, they've been told that instead of laying people off they are reducing everyone's hours by 50%, from 16 hours a week to 8. They seem to think they are doing people a favour by keeping 6 people in a token job instead of 3 people on a 'decent' wage. I assume that's also 6 people instead of 3 off of the unemployment figure. 

If you allowed people to opt for full time work with their current employer if they wanted it or to move from the 'magic' 16 hours to say 24 hours a week then. I suspect millions would move from part time to full time, and much of the requirement for extra staff through immigration would disappear. 

Anything below 37.5 paid hours (40 hrs attended) is part time in my book, full time is at least 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. 

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5 hours ago, MancTom said:

is housing scarce? Loads of houses near me...as long as you want to rent them, rather than buy them. No actual scarcity, just many are owned by people who don't use them to live in?

In SE yes. Near me its desperate. 

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7 minutes ago, markyh said:

Anything below 37.5 paid hours (40 hrs attended) is part time in my book, full time is at least 8 hrs a day 5 days a week. 

And 50-60 hour weeks like academia? Paid 35 hours but in reality far more if you want to get promoted? The work place is complicated, but many of the eu citizens i work with appreciate the idea that if you work really hard you get rewarded for it. 

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Take care workers, those that travel in their own cars from house to house getting people up, washing them, seeing that they have a meal, putting them to bed......help keeping the elderly and frail people living in their homes for longer......often these compassionate caring people have 20mins to do the job in each home and are sometimes not paid for time traveling between jobs....

Who benefits from this care......older people, many who might have voted Brexit, do you think they will be prepared to pay these careers a decent living wage, these workers have families and bills to pay aswell.....about time they should be valued for the work they do in remuneration not just thanks.?

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