Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 

Citation?

3 friends who worked in German universities. Two said they worked for free after their PhD and said it was not unusual whilst waiting for a position to come up. The other was working for a pittance after a postdoc. Admittedly small meaningless sample sizes.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Perhaps in the arts, or other schools that do not make any money really. Higher education is changing its nature very rapidly at the moment. To answer your question -i am amazed by many things eg how it still retains deadwood so well at the same time as pissing off the talented. I honestly find it hard to predict where it will end up. Except it will move further towards entertainment than education. The real question is were will students get jobs and will universities remain worthwhile or necessary to achieve that. If it is any answer, i am very relieved my children do not want to be academics. i managed to get high up the system but now hate it. So well paid but very cynical, some of the young people i deal with are brilliant and marvellous, just about the only thing that keeps me going.

I'm not so high up but also hate it now. It's not the system I went through as a student, it's a market in which academics are seen as service providers to students, rather than authorities in their subject matter. Surrounded by game-playing and sneakily competitive colleagues who seem to want nothing more than a promotion. And a senior management that get to squander literally tens of millions every year playing at being global businessmen and have no accountability for the money wasted. Yes, concentrate on those amongst the young people who believe in what they are doing, it is a way of staying sane.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

More wringing hands  EU-f-wittery

Opinion European Union

Corruption is rotting the periphery of Europe

The continent’s problems extend to troubled democracies beyond Hungary and Poland



Hungary and Poland are in the spotlight as their governments resist efforts to link EU funding to respect for the rule of law. But focusing exclusively on the Hungarians and Poles underplays the scope of Europe’s problem. In several other EU countries, recent corruption scandals and rule of law controversies have raised serious questions about the health of their democratic systems. They include Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia, Malta and Cyprus. Collectively, the troubled democracies account for between one-quarter and one-third of the 27 governments seated around the EU conference table.

All new members. All too bent to have be allowed full membership so soon. All have been even more bent by joining the EU.

All major exporters of in-work benefit takers in the UK.

And missing some old members - Spain (after the mess of handling the Catalonia episode) probably Portugal too. And most of italy.

 

Top rated comments:

Comments have not been enabled for this article.

 

 

 

Semi connected.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9005991/Police-raid-lockdown-orgy-diplomats-MEP-Brussels.html

Just wow.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 

I'm not so high up but also hate it now. It's not the system I went through as a student, it's a market in which academics are seen as service providers to students, rather than authorities in their subject matter. Surrounded by game-playing and sneakily competitive colleagues who seem to want nothing more than a promotion. And a senior management that get to squander literally tens of millions every year playing at being global businessmen and have no accountability for the money wasted. Yes, concentrate on those amongst the young people who believe in what they are doing, it is a way of staying sane.

yes i agree with all that. As to me, i worked with a nobel laureate briefly and got my name on some amazing articles, it would have been a struggle for me otherwise (even with quite a few grants) as i do not play the game, i do not dodge teaching by pretending to "manage stuff". If you feel oppressed you have no idea how i feel from senior colleagues who really depise me for not playing their cynical crap game. Yes the promotion system is at the root of the problem, totally.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Just read that article, what do you reckon? french or german secruity service job? seems very convenient. Perhaps the people who could usually get paid off seemed disinterested this time? People or orgaisations that claim moral superiority are always vulnerable to this type of stuff.

As to the corrupition. i think it will get worse, especially now the UK has left.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Just read that article, what do you reckon? french or german secruity service job? seems very convenient. Perhaps the people who could usually get paid off seemed disinterested this time? People or orgaisations that claim moral superiority are always vulnerable to this type of stuff.

As to the corrupition. i think it will get worse, especially now the UK has left.

You can lead a Hunfarian to an orgy.

You cant make him take his pants off.

I font know. Instincts would say not a setup. Normally youd look yo ro that vias cash.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Just read that article, what do you reckon? french or german secruity service job? seems very convenient. Perhaps the people who could usually get paid off seemed disinterested this time? People or orgaisations that claim moral superiority are always vulnerable to this type of stuff.

As to the corrupition. i think it will get worse, especially now the UK has left.

No doubt in my mind it was an EU set up. Hungary (and Poland) are under real pressure at themoment to withdraw their EU budget veto. From today's Daily Telegraph:

Fidesz and the Law and Justice Party are accused of high-stakes economic blackmail, having vetoed the EU budget and the Recovery Fund over “law and order” tutelage.

Brussels is sifting ways to circumvent that veto, and to throw these countries off the gravy train as added punishment. This too will have consequences.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, the UK is the *only* truly European country.

https://www.theregister.com/2020/12/01/arm_at_30/

Despite all that growth, Arm resisted becoming yet another massive tech giant, with one former engineer describing a commitment to openness and collaboration.

"Warren East was the CEO then, and he was very transparent – we often heard from him directly on important projects or milestones," Alexandru Voica, an ex-Arm CPU designer in the early 2010s, told The Reg.

"The main building in Cambridge had this structure where the centre of the office was a large cafeteria, and around that centre space you had offices where employees worked. Also around that main cafeteria, you had all the desks of the execs. On any given day, you could see Warren or the CTO."

Voica, who now works for Facebook, joined Arm not long after graduating from university in Romania, and recalls a strong culture of mentorship.

"As a graduate engineer, you were put on a rotation in your first year so you could experience three or four different projects and teams. I worked on the Cortex-A7, the Cortex-M0, which is a microcontroller, and a DMC memory controller," he said. "When you entered a new rotation, they assigned someone to mentor you and ensure you were up to speed. It was useful, particularly for people who hadn't worked in a large tech company before.

 

Sadly, the EU has not produced a metric, tracking which countries EUers are currently living in.

It should have had some sort of EU administrated system. The Brexit vote would not have been a surprise to all parties.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Getting back to the OP. I have experienced the Australia points system that Boris is keen on.  It works like this.  Employers claim 'shortages' and government obliges.  for eg there have never been real IT worker shortages in Australia but  Thousands are imported per year from India (in particular) are given special low wage visas.  Same with engineering, I personally know 2 engineers tossed out for having the cheek to turn 50yo then the company hires half price immigrants on a special 'points' visa of which there are many to chose from.  Even hairdressers have been classified as high-skilled jobs for immigration purposes.  Lots of 'students' too who take on courses spun over many years but mostly working for less than min wage in things such as cleaning where they have pushed out all locals who had no other options for work and so on.   Dont be fooled.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Getting back to the OP. I have experienced the Australia points system that Boris is keen on.  It works like this.  Employers claim 'shortages' and government obliges.  for eg there have never been real IT worker shortages in Australia but  Thousands are imported per year from India (in particular) are given special low wage visas.  Same with engineering, I personally know 2 engineers tossed out for having the cheek to turn 50yo then the company hires half price immigrants on a special 'points' visa of which there are many to chose from.  Even hairdressers have been classified as high-skilled jobs for immigration purposes.  Lots of 'students' too who take on courses spun over many years but mostly working for less than min wage in things such as cleaning where they have pushed out all locals who had no other options for work and so on.   Dont be fooled.

Anecdotally, I have heard of engineers moving to immigrant friendly resource boom-and-bust countries/regions (Alberta, Western Australia) who end up driving taxis. The points can get you in, but not necessarily get you a job.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Anecdotally, I have heard of engineers moving to immigrant friendly resource boom-and-bust countries/regions (Alberta, Western Australia) who end up driving taxis. The points can get you in, but not necessarily get you a job.

 

This is so. Lots have sold up in the UK, gotten jobs in Australia but then lost them, in which case if they are on a temp visa, which most are for the first 4 years (I believe) then they are obliged to go home, often with less money than they started with.  I would only advise Australia if you are young with no money to lose (then you can call it an adventure) or have a real job to go to which pays substantially more than the UK on account of the much higher cost of living and the risk you are taking.  Australia uses immigrants with a massive touch of cynicism, if they can use you then ok if not you are disposable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Anecdotally, I have heard of engineers moving to immigrant friendly resource boom-and-bust countries/regions (Alberta, Western Australia) who end up driving taxis. The points can get you in, but not necessarily get you a job.

 

same in Canada, they make migrants live in remote places like fort arthur and the locals do not want to live there. sometimes flipping burgers even though they are trained in something else, However.. they are well paid jobs relatively as noone local wants to do them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

This is so. Lots have sold up in the UK, gotten jobs in Australia but then lost them, in which case if they are on a temp visa, which most are for the first 4 years (I believe) then they are obliged to go home, often with less money than they started with.  I would only advise Australia if you are young with no money to lose (then you can call it an adventure) or have a real job to go to which pays substantially more than the UK on account of the much higher cost of living and the risk you are taking.  Australia uses immigrants with a massive touch of cynicism, if they can use you then ok if not you are disposable.

From what I vaguely remember about Australian immigration was that if you qualified through the points test, you could move there as a permanent resident without needing an employer to sponsor you. So people were moving, but were unable to find a qualified job for any number of reasons (overseas experience not valid, racism, sheer number of applicants), hence skilled immigrants were unable to find work matching their (supposed) skills.

As was said, pretty much any job beyond a casual laborer/Saturday job would qualify for some sort of visa. You can imagine what it would be like in the UK once the lobby groups get involved - I remember the fuss a few years ago about restricting chefs to work in Indian restaurants. A shortage of van drivers or car washers?

In many ways, I am starting to think that countries should simply sell permanent visas and avoid all the sponsorship. You want to live in the UK? Either you, or your new employer has to pay £100k or whatever the rate is. No racism, no short cuts, no lobbying.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

But surely a GP can't get his or her son preference at medical college can they? Or am I missing something?

Surely doctors' children are doctors children in the same way that Stuart Broad, Simon Jones, Jonny Bairstow are England cricket players whose fathers played cricket for England?  A mixture of genes and family encouragement.  I would guess if they had been taken away from their parents at birth and been brought by up by pro baseball players they would now be playing baseball professionally.

It used to be the case that medical schools would offer interviews to applicants who were children of alumni as a courtesy.  No longer.

You're right about the family encouragement / coaching.

I used to work with a couple of brilliant Italian female doctors; one a neurosurgeon and one an intensive care doctor.   Independently both told me that the number one message at the Women in Medicine society at medical school in Italy was "Learn English!"  The sexism in the medical profession there was/is terrible.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I am glad that does not happen any more.

Oxbridge colleges used to have exams for children of Alumni, within living memory.

It is supposedly forbidden to ask applicants about their families occupations now.

edit to add|:-

apparently it is still commom in the states

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

A search on legacy preferences at Oxbridge just finds loads of website saying they do not.

My Father was an oxford graduate and he told me many of his cohort got in through legacy preference (in the 1940's). So either he was lying or Oxbride are keeping quiet about their past- again.

Edited by debtlessmanc
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Oxbridge colleges used to have exams for children of Alumni, within living memory.

It is supposedly forbidden to ask applicants about their families occupations now.

edit to add|:-

apparently it is still commom in the states

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legacy_preferences

A search on legacy preferences at Oxbridge just finds loads of website saying they do not.

My Father was an oxford graduate and he told me many of his cohort got in through legacy preference (in the 1940's). So either he was lying or Oxbride are keeping quiet about their past- again.

If anyone is interested in the details of the applications to the settlement scheme, the ONS have published the latest quaterly report

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-september-2020

breakdown by age and location

interesting stats 400k+ Italian people of whom >300k are of working age

300k+ portuguese of whom <9k are retirement age.

755k polish of whom  <10k are over 65

it goes on 250K spanish working age

the fact of the equivalent number of UK people working in the whole of of the continental EU is less than the number of polish people working here is telling.

Really it an indictment of the failure of the rest of the EU to provide meaningful work for the young.

What amazes me is that no-one seems to discuss this on the continent, that i can see anyway reading the continental press. The job creation in the UK seems to be below all commentators radar.

 

Edited by debtlessmanc
typos
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

If anyone is interested in the of applications to the settled scheme, the ONS have published the latest quaterly report

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-september-2020

breakdown by age and location

interesting stats 400k+ Italian people of whom >300k are of working age

300k+ portuguese of whom <9k are retirement age.

755k polish of whom  <10k are over 65

it goes on 250K spanish working age

the fact of the equivalent number of UK people working in the whole of of the continental EU is less than the number of polish people working here is telling.

Really it an indictment of the failure of the rest of the EU to provide meaningful work for the young.

What amazes me is that no-one seems to discuss this on the continent, that i can see anyway reading the continental press. The job creation in the UK seems to be below all commentators radar.

 

I don't think job creation is something the EU cares about much.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Really it an indictment of the failure of the rest of the EU to provide meaningful work for the young.

With easy access to the UK gone and next year looking like a recession, what will happen to the unemployed Spanish/Portuguese/Italians?

Will they stay put, try their luck in France or Germany, or go for a decent(ish) job here that meets the salary threshold for a visa? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I don't think job creation is something the EU cares about much.  

Its difficult to come to anyother conclusion. Sorting out unemployment would involve challrenging bureacracy and the cushy lifestyle of the publlc sector in these countries

It seems the other EU countries would also throw their youth on the scrapheap.

As to what will happen in the UK, depends on the economy of course, if he stays okay they will be going nowhere. Certainly the ones i have spoken too tell me that.

Edited by debtlessmanc
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

If anyone is interested in the details of the applications to the settlement scheme, the ONS have published the latest quaterly report

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/eu-settlement-scheme-quarterly-statistics-september-2020

breakdown by age and location

interesting stats 400k+ Italian people of whom >300k are of working age

300k+ portuguese of whom <9k are retirement age.

755k polish of whom  <10k are over 65

it goes on 250K spanish working age

the fact of the equivalent number of UK people working in the whole of of the continental EU is less than the number of polish people working here is telling.

Really it an indictment of the failure of the rest of the EU to provide meaningful work for the young.

What amazes me is that no-one seems to discuss this on the continent, that i can see anyway reading the continental press. The job creation in the UK seems to be below all commentators radar.

 

I think the number of Brits working in the entire of Europe are a lot less than 300k.

One you remove the number of pat or fully retired OAPs living in Spain and France, the number of Brits actually working in Europe is tiny.

We are still no near knowing how many EUe are in the UK. The registrations are still coming in at a rapid clip.

Just take the Portuguese figures.

The figures I heard bandied about around Brexit vote were 100k. Thats 1% of the population.

The numbers currently stand at 300k - 3%

Do ~~2m Brits live in Portugal?? No.

Chatting to one of mrs spys Portuguese friends, she puts the figure much higher - around 1m, which would be 10%

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

With easy access to the UK gone and next year looking like a recession, what will happen to the unemployed Spanish/Portuguese/Italians?

Will they stay put, try their luck in France or Germany, or go for a decent(ish) job here that meets the salary threshold for a visa? 

Theyll start rioting back hone.

Again, take Portugal or Italy.

Imagine if ~70% of your under 40s suddenly turned up after several years of liing and working independently, going out, socialising, only to find themselves living in their bedroom, havign to pay tax so a large number of over 50s sit around precedented to work at very high salaries.

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I don't think job creation is something the EU cares about much.  

People create their own work......more local and community as far as I can see, here more huge conglomerates, chains, public sector, massive individual job providers with power and influence to lobby politicians for cheap funding and low taxes......we do not care or nurture small businesses here, they have less chance to succeed so much stacked against them in so many ways........no longer a nation of small shopkeepers.;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.