Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum

Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


Recommended Posts

 

I can see a number of issues with that idea

- This ‘qualifying period’ would have to be 2 years to allow 18 year old UK citizens access to benefits. 2 years is not long enough to put people off. A tough 2 years then a lifetime of benefits seems a small price to pay.

- benefit tourism is a small proportion of EUers. Most will work so the numbers coming will still be high

- UK gov couldn’t prevent access to schools and NHS through this approach so the criticism that school places and doctors appointments are being taken would still be there

- it could not be applied retroactively so was too late when Cameron’s renegotiation, and Blair obs wouldn’t have done this is 2004

- it’s clearly a ‘hack’ to get around the spirit of the EU’s rules. A Guardian journo would press the gov on what the point of this was and the gov would have to squirm / defend it. Labour would pull out some UK citizen who fell through the cracks and is impacted by this law. 

...and I’m sure there are other unintended consequences that I didn’t think of within 5 mins of reading that proposal

Tax credits blurs benefits and works.

Most of the Schleps and Romanian mini markets will have 15+ part time women on the books, with kids, claiming about 20k+ each in cash benefits before the cost of schooling and healthcare are taken into account.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

 

Most of the Schleps and Romanian mini markets will have 15+ part time women on the books, with kids, claiming about 20k+ each in cash benefits before the cost of schooling and healthcare are taken into account.

Indeed, and if they were allowed to work but prevented from claiming TC or UC their income wouldn't be viable on its own and Labour/Guardian would be screaming 'nasty Tories' and showing emotive images of begging children on UK streets.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

4.06M now, or 4.5M with Irish citizens, still rising at 150k a momth or so could reach 5-6m by next summer.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/eu-settlement-scheme-statistics

 

Maybe this pressure group should correctly update their Twitter handle to reflect reality and not the lies of the referendum https://twitter.com/the3million

Luckily for them, @the4million is still available. 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Poland abortion ruling: Police use pepper spray against protesters

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54657021

Seems to be going rapidly backwards.

Behaving like  the resident population were all well over 60.....

I suspect it is this kind of thinking that many younger poles moved to the UK to get away from. So once again the “old country” gets worse.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What do they want? Back to the “good old days” of coat hangers and bleeding to death? Back to the convents and the nuns and the buried baby bones? 

This is what happens when power shifts, they shudder and grasp it even harder. Gotta keep that capitalism churning, gotta make more pristine Polish babies to fund the retirements of the oldies. They’re not children, they’re just a resource. This is a resource war between the state and the suppliers. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

What do they want? Back to the “good old days” of coat hangers and bleeding to death? Back to the convents and the nuns and the buried baby bones? 

This is what happens when power shifts, they shudder and grasp it even harder. Gotta keep that capitalism churning, gotta make more pristine Polish babies to fund the retirements of the oldies. They’re not children, they’re just a resource. This is a resource war between the state and the suppliers. 

They will not go back to the old days, young people will just leave. for 50 years now there has been a steady flow of irish women coming to the mainland for abortions. All enabled by freedom of movement between the the UK and Eire. It has enabled ireland to maintain the hypocrisy of banning abortion and not suffering the social consequences. Now with the EU FoM there will be a choice of countries to get one in.

Edited by debtlessmanc
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

They will not go back to the old days, young people will just leave. for 50 years now there has been a steady flow of irish women coming to the mainland for abortions. All enabled by freedom of movement between the the UK and Eire. It has enabled ireland to maintain the hypocrisy of banning abortion and not suffering the social consequences. Now with the EU FoM there will be a choice of countries to get one in.

Provided you’re wealthy enough to travel. Women with money have always been able to circumvent the laws that restrict them (see also Saudi women who drove cars with extremely tinted windows during the no-driving years.)

Poor women, not so much. 

 

I read that immigration to the west has made Poles and Hungarians more anti Islam (a different subject of course).

Yes I’m sure I’ve seen stories about how it’s getting worse, various hate crimes etc. I’m surprised there are any Muslims living there, I was under the impression it’s an extremely monoculture. Happy to be informed otherwise though. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 

Yes I’m sure I’ve seen stories about how it’s getting worse, various hate crimes etc. I’m surprised there are any Muslims living there, I was under the impression it’s an extremely monoculture. Happy to be informed otherwise though. 

Actually there has been a very small Muslim population in Poland.

Personally I think Islam on a large scale like we have in the UK is a bad thing.  I don't think all Muslims are bad people - or all Methodists don't drink alcohol.  However for the UK it has been a bad thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I try and avoid these types of threads, but had to share this anecdotal.  Got a free meal from my local Indian. I know the guy there and he was celebrating his 'cousin' had got in with a student visa.  He was celebrating like it was Christmas.

Apparently the number of 'Student' visas have increased.  How many of these 'students' will end up in Chicken shops and suddenly be married to a local and claiming benefits?

I have no problem with clear economic migration - we can see the impact and manage numbers (I'm not getting into any discussion on what that number should be). This student back door is exactly the reason why immigration is such a sensitive topic - it smacks of hiding things. Student visas should be Entry date to Exit Date, no exceptions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I try and avoid these types of threads, but had to share this anecdotal.  Got a free meal from my local Indian. I know the guy there and he was celebrating his 'cousin' had got in with a student visa.  He was celebrating like it was Christmas.

Apparently the number of 'Student' visas have increased.  How many of these 'students' will end up in Chicken shops and suddenly be married to a local and claiming benefits?

I have no problem with clear economic migration - we can see the impact and manage numbers (I'm not getting into any discussion on what that number should be). This student back door is exactly the reason why immigration is such a sensitive topic - it smacks of hiding things. Student visas should be Entry date to Exit Date, no exceptions.

Student visas have been abused for almost 30 years.  I am not exaggerating, in fact I think it is better now than it used to be.

I know people who came here on student visas in 91 and now have citizenship council tax etc.

A friend of mine was here for 5 years as a student and never had any classes I think he could only count to 100 in English when he left.

 

They should definitely be time limited and only be able to stay if people do certain jobs at the end of it.  Saying that sometimes marriages do happen - should people be forced to leave at the end?

 

Depressingly the two people I know who have had to leave because of not being able to renew their students visas were the most productive of all of them!

 

Edited by iamnumerate
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Student visas have been abused for almost 30 years.  I am not exaggerating, in fact I think it is better now than it used to be.

I know people who came here on student visas in 91 and now have citizenship council tax etc.

A friend of mine was here for 5 years as a student and never had any classes I think he could only count to 100 in English when he left.

 

They should definitely be time limited and only be able to stay if people do certain jobs at the end of it.

 

This is where I get hard nosed and say no exceptions. If you have a qualifying job at the end of it (not a chicken shop) then you can fly back home, have a week in the sun, then fly back on an employment visa and begin a transition to citizenship.

You have to make these things transparent to avoid the dog whistles and implications from the 'spoons squad.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

They will not go back to the old days, young people will just leave. for 50 years now there has been a steady flow of irish women coming to the mainland for abortions. All enabled by freedom of movement between the the UK and Eire. It has enabled ireland to maintain the hypocrisy of banning abortion and not suffering the social consequences. Now with the EU FoM there will be a choice of countries to get one in.

You're aware that Ireland now has quite liberal abortion laws after a referendum delivered an unexpectedly large majority in favour of reform? Another example of the long term social benefits of free movement within Europe.

Edited by thecrashingisles
Link to post
Share on other sites
 

 

Apparently the number of 'Student' visas have increased.  How many of these 'students' will end up in Chicken shops and suddenly be married to a local and claiming benefits?

 

Yes, I have heard this as well, the universities are saying if you do not let them in the edu-economy will collapse so they had to make a choice and money in the end always triumphs other factors 

PS I did not realise you were a kiss and tell sort of guy

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

You're aware that Ireland now has quite liberal abortion laws after a referendum delivered an unexpectedly large majority in favour of reform? Another example of the long term social benefits of free movement within Europe.

In 2018, about 40 years after rest of Europe.

And thats just the law.

It remains to to see if the service will be supplied.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

This is where I get hard nosed and say no exceptions. If you have a qualifying job at the end of it (not a chicken shop) then you can fly back home, have a week in the sun, then fly back on an employment visa and begin a transition to citizenship.

You have to make these things transparent to avoid the dog whistles and implications from the 'spoons squad.

At the moment if you are here for 10 years you can get right to remain.  I know someone who took 10 years to do a degree and as soon as she got right to remain got benefits.  Sadly the ability to support yourself is not part of the eligibility requirements.

https://www.gov.uk/long-residence/eligibility

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

In 2018, about 40 years after rest of Europe.

And thats just the law.

It remains to to see if the service will be supplied.

Roe v Wade was decided over 40 years ago, and abortion is still a much bigger issue in the US than it is in most of Europe. It's usually better to determine cultural issues democratically than by judicial activism.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Roe v Wade was decided over 40 years ago, and abortion is still a much bigger issue in the US than it is in most of Europe. It's usually better to determine cultural issues democratically than by judicial activism.

+1. The best way to determine cultural issues is through evolving the culture. I remember when going out on a saturday N***** bashing was a thing (not that I did that). It wasn't so much the law that changed that, but suddenly seeing it wasn't acceptable. Same with drink driving.

US uses abortion to cover more insidious political motives - the founding fathers knew the dangers of merging church and state.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

The treaties allowed for a 7 year transition period but the UK decided we didn't want that because we thought opening the labour market would give us an advantage over France and Germany. Blaming the EU for that is ridiculous.

I was working in the Home Office at the time. The civil service advised against it but Mervyn King was a strong supporter saying we needed to sieze a "first mover advantage". 

The civil service also advised that we should implement a 5yr qualifying period for benefits. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I was working in the Home Office at the time. The civil service advised against it but Mervyn King was a strong supporter saying we needed to sieze a "first mover advantage". 

The civil service also advised that we should implement a 5yr qualifying period for benefits. 

I didn't realise that.  Never mind our foot, we shot ourselves in the b*lls

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

This is where I get hard nosed and say no exceptions. If you have a qualifying job at the end of it (not a chicken shop) then you can fly back home, have a week in the sun, then fly back on an employment visa and begin a transition to citizenship.

You have to make these things transparent to avoid the dog whistles and implications from the 'spoons squad.

There used to be a two year automatic post graduate visa - it ended in around 2011 I believe. It allowed foreign graduates to work without needing job sponsorship for two years, with the idea being that after the two years they could be sponsored or apply for residence themselves. By cancelling it, it meant that foreign graduates from good universities found it harder to get jobs, and a lot of them left rather than staying. But my gut feeling is that it wouldn't have stopped the people from fake universities staying.

My idea - limit student visas to recognized high quality universities only. No visas can be given to study at the "London International School of Business (East Ham Campus)" or "The Queen's British College of Language and Economics (Luton)".

Like most issues with immigration - most people can see what the problem is, but successive governments have been either unable or unwilling to tackle it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

My idea - limit student visas to recognized high quality universities only. No visas can be given to study at the "London International School of Business (East Ham Campus)" or "The Queen's British College of Language and Economics (Luton)".

Sounds good, but the problem is then you tie students to a fixed pool of uni's - and the charge of cartels. 

A hard entry - hard exit is transparent.  Numbers easy to track and identify overstayers. You can still welcome employed grads under a clear arugment of economic benefit.

If only there was a way to ship off the useless natives we get too

Link to post
Share on other sites
 

I was working in the Home Office at the time. The civil service advised against it but Mervyn King was a strong supporter saying we needed to sieze a "first mover advantage". 

The civil service also advised that we should implement a 5yr qualifying period for benefits. 

He wanted immigration as he believed it would help decrease interest rates.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/business/740484.euro-migrants-stem-rates-rise/

 

He thought that this was a good thing - obviously it was for some but not for all.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.