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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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8 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

I am not sure it is as simple as this.  People like me are not blaming immigrants (in themselves) for anything. 
 

I recognise the loss of well educated young Eastern European’s causes problems for their country of origin. 
 

I recognise that their arrival and integration has caused problems in their destination countries, especially where they have taken on low skilled employment.  
 

I do not blame the “EU” for this issue. I recognise that this is dominantly a result of policies decided by governments in the origin and destination countries. 
 

However, I do not like the fact that people who recognise the problems caused by this, and have seen Brexit as a potential solution,  are somehow branded as having unacceptable views that they clearly do not hold. 

I blame the politicians who pay people to come here - and then act surprised that housing becomes expensive.  I also don't think it is fair that we couldn't go and live on benefits in Spain in the past - like they can here.  (Our fault not theirs of course).

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Day in, day out, I see plenty of European migrant workers who work hard and contribute to our country (some are actually in well-paid roles now, like pharmacy or dental practices).

If you're looking for folk who seemingly don't contribute, and spend an enormous amount of time posting anti-immigrant propaganda, then I fear this board is a great place to start.   

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1 minute ago, Trampa501 said:

Day in, day out, I see plenty of European migrant workers who work hard and contribute to our country (some are actually in well-paid roles now, like pharmacy or dental practices).

If you're looking for folk who seemingly don't contribute, and spend an enormous amount of time posting anti-immigrant propaganda, then I fear this board is a great place to start.   

Depends.

I see some working.

There are some EE in the NHS. Theres lots of Portuguese and Spanish nurses, which isnt a problem as both countries have excess healthcare staff.

The likes of Romania etc have a serious shortage of healthcare workers, nurses DRs dentist.

However .. all of mrs spys charges parents do the most the most low end, tax payer subbed jobs.

Any migrant, EU, African, American, needs to be self supporting, not burdening UK tax payers.

Thats about ~27k in earnings for a single person.

For a family who come over and have kids and send them to school then th figure moves to 70kl.

The only way to handle this is to charge for access to [public services - 7k/h for school and he NHS insurance.

EU migrants are meant to have critical illness insurance. 95% dont.

 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, spyguy said:

EU migrants are meant to have critical illness insurance. 95% dont.

Wrong, only EU migrants who aren't working (and don't have 5 years of continuously working in the UK in the past) are meant to have Comprehensive Sickness Insurance. Also, the EU settled status scheme is making this requirement obsolete anyway as you don't need CSI to get settled or pre-settled status, and once you have settled/pre-settled status you have the right to remain in the UK.

Quote

The British government and European Commission have reached a preliminary agreement on replacement rights in UK law, known as “temporary status” and “settled status”. The Home Office says that Comprehensive Sickness Insurance will not be required in order to obtain these new types of UK status.

https://www.freemovement.org.uk/comprehensive-sickness-insurance-what-is-it-and-who-needs-it/

Edited by Dorkins
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11 hours ago, 14stFlyer said:

However, I do not like the fact that people who recognise the problems caused by this, and have seen Brexit as a potential solution,  are somehow branded as having unacceptable views that they clearly do not hold. 

Indeed. It's the irony that really gets to me, since most of those doing the branding are doing it from a very prejudiced, bigoted point of view ("don't care what they say, you must be a wacist if you're anti-immigration!"). My objections to it are based on the  immense damage done by population growth, of which it's the main factor (and that stopping people having children would be morally unacceptable) and the parasitic nature of it. Get things in a position where the incoming and outcoming pulls are balanced so net immigration is around zero and it's great.

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6 minutes ago, byron78 said:

Afraid this thread rather proved the assumptions I'd begun making about this website. Seems to be inundated with trolls, racists, and liars.

Probably best off wasting my time elsewhere from now on.

People are not more racists.

So many people are on Furlough with nothing to do all day, so they make extreme shots, in time they will change, as the shock value decreases.

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17 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

on the issue of creating refugee influxes, anyone noticed that Macron is doing his best to p**s of Erdogan at the moment?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53767792

if it flares up i expect turkey to push another million or so Syrians into Greece.

Well, Erdogan is probably the main responsible for the mess in Syria, and, he’s basically alone on the fighting front as even the Arabs are closing deals with Israel as they don’t want the Turks to take the lead of the Muslim ME region. I also remind you that the current Middle Eastern landscape is the result of the Anglo-French compromises after the two world wars, so it doesn’t really surprise me that Macron is getting involved in the game. 

Edited by NoHPCinTheUK
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16 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

Well, Erdogan is probably the main responsible for the mess in Syria, and, he’s basically alone on the fighting front as even the Arabs are closing deals with Israel as they don’t want the Turks to take the lead of the Muslim ME region. I also remind you that the current Middle Eastern landscape is the result of the Anglo-French compromises after the two world wars, so it doesn’t really surprise me that Macron is getting involved in the game. 

The UK was also partially responsible for the carve up of germany after the war, is it also our fault it is such a mess?  Hydrocarbons are the problem, much of the middle east is uninhabitable, so finders keepers when it comes to oil. Yes the west meddles endlessly, but the locals are more than happy to fight over the swag.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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1 minute ago, debtlessmanc said:

The UK was also partially responsible for the carve up of germany after the war, is it our fault it is such a mess?

I don’t understand your point sorry. I was just saying that since those countries basically exist because the French and the British put them on the map, you shouldn’t be surprised to see their involvement in the area. I wasn’t judging history here. 

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7 minutes ago, NoHPCinTheUK said:

I don’t understand your point sorry. I was just saying that since those countries basically exist because the French and the British put them on the map, you shouldn’t be surprised to see their involvement in the area. I wasn’t judging history here. 

As i added above, i know, tbh no-one would care if it was not for the hydrocarbons, wrt to Macron he is no doubt after the contracts to develop the huge gas fields just found of Cyprus and to extend influence over libya (the article in the le figaro covers this). It must be really galling for Erdogan that the gas fields are in Greek Cypriot waters.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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1 hour ago, debtlessmanc said:

As i added above, i know, tbh no-one would care if it was not for the hydrocarbons, wrt to Macron he is no doubt after the contracts to develop the huge gas fields just found of Cyprus and to extend influence over libya (the article in the le figaro covers this). It must be really galling for Erdogan that the gas fields are in Greek Cypriot waters.

You change your tune with the wind. It must be blowing in a 'hydrocarbons matter' direction today.

 

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15 hours ago, IMHAL said:

You change your tune with the wind. It must be blowing in a 'hydrocarbons matter' direction today.

 

read the article (in french) in le figaro, i blow nothing, they do apparently. I want rid of hydrocarbons across the planet. I have an electric car charge from solar panels on my roof and my job/research is increasing the efficiency of solar panels, Some of our researchers solved an issue that wastes 20mt of carbon a year, across the planet. feel free to tell me where i am going wrong? If you think i should buy loads of gas burners and buy the gas from Cyprus i would love to hear the argument.

not that i am a virtue signaller or anything :)

Edited by debtlessmanc
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  • 1 month later...
On 08/07/2020 at 08:37, spyguy said:

I'm not being dishonest.

I'm trying to estimate the number of EUs living and accessing public services in the UK. Something the UK politicians, civil service and media have been refusing to question despite the obvious number of EUers in front of them, repeating the massive lie of  '3m EUers working in the UK'.

That was true, up til tax credits and EE ascension. It's been an outright lie since 2004ish.

At the moment, the closest thing to an official count is pointing to 5m,  3.6m + EU 500k finger in the air.

Not 3m. And a large number are on benefits, with family dependent using the free at point of use UK public services.

Now some EU countries I.e the ones at the top of that FT chart dont know or dont care where there citizens are. Mainly EE but also Italy and Spain, whove swept their failed under 45s economy under the UK economy and benefit system rug.

Covid has messed the count up. I still reckon when the UK gets close to a count itll show somewhere between 7m - 9m.

Some remainers - and im one - bang on about boris n Brexit lies. Nothing comes close to the '3m EUers working'

 

 

 

 

 

Saw this and thought of this thread.

Spain seeks to tempt back lost nurses as it wrestles with virus

Government aims to reverse exodus of healthcare professionals abroad to plug staffing gap

https://www.ft.com/content/b8ad72b7-ad7f-4846-9795-89cd7437852a



Five years ago, when a global pandemic was the last thing he envisaged, César Del Prado gave up hope of finding a job in his native Spain. Like thousands of other Spanish health professionals, the nursing graduate boarded a flight to the UK.

There were no jobs to be had then, said Mr Del Prado, now 29: “Spain was in an economic crisis. There had been lots of cutbacks in the health budget. They were not hiring nurses.”

...



Many professionals like Mr Del Prado moved to countries such as Britain and France because of austerity policies and other factors, including the Spanish health system’s reliance on temporary contracts that can run for just a few days or weeks.

“Nurses have had to go to other countries looking to get longer term contracts that just weren’t available here,” said Ms García, who added that up to 70 per cent of Spanish nurses are on temporary contracts.


Mr Del Prado responded to an NHS recruitment advert when he was teaching English and working for a removal business in his home city of Santander to make ends meet. Within hours of sending his CV, he was offered an interview in Madrid and the next day was on his way to the capital. 

Within weeks he had his paperwork completed and a job in Portsmouth. After two years he moved to a big London hospital. In the UK, he earned more, saved more and had better working conditions than his counterparts in Spain.

“I really enjoyed working in the NHS,” Mr Del Prado said. “You get longer holidays, more breaks. And workers’ rights are much better.”

 

There is some further blurb about the DRs union kicking off about importing medical staff, despite the obvious shortages, giving you an idea of how sewn up the Spanish unions/sectors are compared to the UK.

Some more blurb on on how little (E1000) and how the jobs are all short-term contracts.

The Spanish nurse has managed to go to the UK -forget France, thats just thrown in their to make it look like the Spanish were goign to other places Europe, they really are not.

Spain still have a very long work day - stupidly so, designed when they were working in the fields. You leave the house at 7.30, have a 2h break in the middle, then get back at ~8pm+

Compare that to the NHS, hehe you work 23 x 12h shifts.

Also compare how easy it was for the Nurse to get his application in, get acreddited, then get a job, then get another job in London.

In Spain, hed have been on a shorterm contract, and be too afraid to move.

 

From the comments, which IIl copy whole:

I have several nurses in my extended family and among friends, including in Sweden and in Spain.  One of them, a Spanish nurse with several years of experience makes around €1,000 per month and has to take double shifts, short stints and lots of uncertainty.  That compensation is about 1/3 of what she would get paid in Sweden and with much working conditions in Sweden.  From what she told me of Spanish friends who are nurses in the UK, the conditions there are much better too. 
 
Maybe if Spanish politicians focused more on collecting the taxes that are due and less on hiring friend, resources would be available.  I heard from a professor friend that one major university in Madrid stopped publishing employee lists in alphabetical order due to the fact that it showed many people with the same double last names, ie, people hiring family members for jobs.  The corrupt mentality lurks under the polished surface everywhere in Spain...unfortunately.

 

 

Spain spends on its public workers 27% of its GDP (all that it collects from direct and indirect taxes) while having half of the public workers than the EU average. The country has a leeching burocratic caste that is overpaid, is almost impossible to fire and has an awful output in terms of efficiency, speed and results.
Then the polititians in Madrid wonder why they don't have money for medical stuff when they have thousands of people on their payroll that could easily be replaced by a  software program. Spain has the structural problems of Argentina and if the country isn't hit by hyperinflation it is because its currency is the euro and its pegged to economies like Germany's,France's or the Netherland's.

 

Spain only grew at 4% after it hit rock-bottom. Last year the growth was slightly above 2% with an unemployment of 16% (a rather raquitic growth for those levels of unemployment specially if you consider a big chunk of it was through the expansion of the public sector) while sustaining a deficit that was larger than its growth.
And of course a burocratic caste that is not productive and it is basically unfirable is a huge and structural burden for the country. All the income taxes and VAT money that Spain recieves goes straight up into those burocrats which has caused a large stagnation in public investment in areas that mattered like digitalization or key infrastracture like the Mediterranean corridor.
 

 

 

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Do you think the UK can tempt back all our lost doctors and nurses too? 

Does the UK lose more Nurses due to:

1) Grass being greener in <insert sunny, English speaking country>

2 God awful, butt headed employment and p1ss poor man management by the NHS and its clipboard bearing harridans when a mainly female cohort leave to have kids?

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Interesting Blog by a romanian in the UK

https://garciacalavera.ro/what-do-the-romanians-in-the-uk-think-about-brexit-their-lives-here-and-if-its-still-worth-coming-here/

 

He did a survey on the largest ex-pat romainian FB site after the vote to see what Romainian intended to do, in particular if the UK economy took a hit.

>50% said they would stay come what may.

c. 18% said they would try to emigrate elsewhere in the anglosphere (Aus/Nz)

c. 18% return to romania or move to a southern state (with the acceptance that they may live in poverty)

only 12% said they would try to move to a wealthy EU state like France or Germany

in other words >80% of them have no interest in or expectation of working anywhere else in the EU other than their home country.

2 things occur to me about these stats. firstly why is the rest of the EU so unattractive apparently. The blogger himself lived in france and said the only thing it had going for it from his perspective was better weather!

secondly, there clearly was demand to work in the UK specifically within the EU (i have been told this anecdotally by citizens of several EU states). What will happen now the UK is leaving? i would not be surprised if the population of ireland doubled in the coming decades (at least)

 

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Interesting Blog by a romanian in the UK

https://garciacalavera.ro/what-do-the-romanians-in-the-uk-think-about-brexit-their-lives-here-and-if-its-still-worth-coming-here/

 

He did a survey on the largest ex-pat romainian FB site after the vote to see what Romainian intended to do, in particular if the UK economy took a hit.

>50% said they would stay come what may.

c. 18% said they would try to emigrate elsewhere in the anglosphere (Aus/Nz)

c. 18% return to romania or move to a southern state (with the acceptance that they may live in poverty)

only 12% said they would try to move to a wealthy EU state like France or Germany

in other words >80% of them have no interest in or expectation of working anywhere else in the EU other than their home country.

2 things occur to me about these stats. firstly why is the rest of the EU so unattractive apparently. The blogger himself lived in france and said the only thing it had going for it from his perspective was better weather!

secondly, there clearly was demand to work in the UK specifically within the EU (i have been told this anecdotally by citizens of several EU states). What will happen now the UK is leaving? i would not be surprised if the population of ireland doubled in the coming decades (at least)

 

The bloody fool should go back to Romania!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania

The economy of Romania is a fast developing, high-income[2] mixed economy with a very high Human Development Index and a skilled labour force, ranked 15th in the European Union by total nominal GDP and 10th largest when adjusted by purchasing power parity.[28]

Romania's economy ranks 40th in the world, with a $549 billion annual output (PPP). In recent years, Romania enjoyed some of the highest growth rates in the EU: 4.8% in 2016, 7.1% in 2017, 4.4% in 2018, and 4.1% in 2019.[5] In 2019 its GDP per capita in purchasing power standards reached 69% of the European Union average, up from 44% in 2007, the highest growth rate in the EU27.[29]

Romania is a leading destination in Central and Eastern Europe for foreign direct investment: the cumulative inward FDI in the country since 1989 totals more than $170 billion.[30] Romania is the largest electronics producer in Central and Eastern Europe. In the past 20 years Romania has also grown into a major center for mobile technology, information security, and related hardware research. The country is a regional leader in fields such as IT and motor vehicle production.[31][32][33] Bucharest, the capital city, is one of the leading financial and industrial centres in Eastern Europe.

The top 10 exports of Romania are vehicles, machinery, chemical goods, electronic products, electrical equipment, pharmaceuticals, transport equipment, basic metals, food products, and rubber and plastics. Imports of goods and services increased 9.3%, while exports grew 7.6% in 2016, as compared to 2015.[34] Exports of goods and services are expected to grow by 5.6% in 2017, while imports are seen increasing by 8.5%, according to the latest CNP (National Prognosis Commission) projections.[35]

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Interesting Blog by a romanian in the UK

https://garciacalavera.ro/what-do-the-romanians-in-the-uk-think-about-brexit-their-lives-here-and-if-its-still-worth-coming-here/

 

He did a survey on the largest ex-pat romainian FB site after the vote to see what Romainian intended to do, in particular if the UK economy took a hit.

>50% said they would stay come what may.

c. 18% said they would try to emigrate elsewhere in the anglosphere (Aus/Nz)

c. 18% return to romania or move to a southern state (with the acceptance that they may live in poverty)

only 12% said they would try to move to a wealthy EU state like France or Germany

in other words >80% of them have no interest in or expectation of working anywhere else in the EU other than their home country.

2 things occur to me about these stats. firstly why is the rest of the EU so unattractive apparently. The blogger himself lived in france and said the only thing it had going for it from his perspective was better weather!

secondly, there clearly was demand to work in the UK specifically within the EU (i have been told this anecdotally by citizens of several EU states). What will happen now the UK is leaving? i would not be surprised if the population of ireland doubled in the coming decades (at least)

 

-Do you think the UK citizens were right to vote to leave the EU? Will it be a better life for them and for us immigrants in the future?

 

 

  • No, the people were misinformed when it was voted, the only reason Brexit was voted for, was immigration. Economically speaking the UK will suffer. Immigration could also be stopped inside the EU. Whatever, they chose now and you can’t fight the windmills. If you are an honest Romanian and you mind your own business doing your job, nobody will have any issue with you. And not only for Romanians is this valid. There are a lot of Romanians who have abused the system and applied for benefits, and the authorities have opened their eyes now and started cleaning house. The problem is when you start cutting the sick branches of the tree, healthy branches also fall.
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The bloody fool should go back to Romania!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania

The economy of Romania is a fast developing, high-income[2] mixed economy with a very high Human Development Index and a skilled labour force, ranked 15th in the European Union by total nominal GDP and 10th largest when adjusted by purchasing power parity.[28]

Romania's economy ranks 40th in the world, with a $549 billion annual output (PPP). In recent years, Romania enjoyed some of the highest growth rates in the EU: 4.8% in 2016, 7.1% in 2017, 4.4% in 2018, and 4.1% in 2019.[5] In 2019 its GDP per capita in purchasing power standards reached 69% of the European Union average, up from 44% in 2007, the highest growth rate in the EU27.[29]

Romania is a leading destination in Central and Eastern Europe for foreign direct investment: the cumulative inward FDI in the country since 1989 totals more than $170 billion.[30] Romania is the largest electronics producer in Central and Eastern Europe. In the past 20 years Romania has also grown into a major center for mobile technology, information security, and related hardware research. The country is a regional leader in fields such as IT and motor vehicle production.[31][32][33] Bucharest, the capital city, is one of the leading financial and industrial centres in Eastern Europe.

The top 10 exports of Romania are vehicles, machinery, chemical goods, electronic products, electrical equipment, pharmaceuticals, transport equipment, basic metals, food products, and rubber and plastics. Imports of goods and services increased 9.3%, while exports grew 7.6% in 2016, as compared to 2015.[34] Exports of goods and services are expected to grow by 5.6% in 2017, while imports are seen increasing by 8.5%, according to the latest CNP (National Prognosis Commission) projections.[35]

Read his blogs, one of them says his family told him to stay where he was. Romania might still be growing economically but it is corrupt and incredibly bureacratic, he talks of Bureacrats spitting in your face if you argue with them.

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