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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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32 minutes ago, A17 said:

My point is that there is/was an attitude that once the UK had left, it would all be plain sailing for the EU. "All" the other countries wanted to progress as good Europeans;

And my point is that you made that up. It isn't something we remainers spend our time saying. 

The EU isn't without its problems, like very single other geographical area on earth. There are no perfect countries, there are no perfect unions. In the UK union, one nation wants to leave and the dominant nation pretty much decides everything that happens, including going to war, against the wishes of the other nations. Why do brexiters not spend their time shouting about how awful the UK union is?

The whole world has problems, as does the EU. But the EU is nowhere near as bad as brexiters want us to believe.

The difference between us, is I don't spend my time inventing false arguments about how magnificent the EU is. I just think it is a pretty good idea for nations that are so geographically coupled to integrate and most of all I admire the concept of allowing all citizens to move around, not just the elite. 

But brexiters on the other hand do spend all their time inventing false arguments about how awful the EU is and how everything that happens in any EU country can be blamed on the EU.

It's hate fuelled cult that isn't capable to behaving rationally. 

That is why you invent lies like the above. You actually think they're true and when asked you invent make believe friends to verify them. That is how cultists behave.

It's ok though. It is an interesting experiment to see cultists crash up against reality and watch the mind bending contortions required to maintain their cult views. I'm quite enjoying it now. You'll never change, so why bother. Just enjoy the ride and make the best out of it.

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46 minutes ago, A17 said:

I don't need to make up anecdotes to argue on the internet.

My point is that there is/was an attitude that once the UK had left, it would all be plain sailing for the EU. "All" the other countries wanted to progress as good Europeans; it was only the selfish UK who did not understand the give-and-take. EU27ers I know, and the Guardian article show this view. Once the UK had left, there would be a smooth path to full integration. The whole point of the EU is to be above national interests.

Now, as we are seeing, the EU27 are fighting among themselves. The UK could be relied upon to be the dissenting voice at summits. This meant that countries who may have disagreed with the path the EU was taken did not have to raise their concerns in public - the UK would do it for them. This meant that countries could achieve the outcome they wanted, without having to be seen as the stick-in-the-mud. Now that the UK has left, countries are having to find their own voices.

You haven't got the idea yet mate, any criticism of the EU is heresy. You are supposed to struggle with your faith in it like a good catholic, sorry remainer, and then come to the right conclusion.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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1 minute ago, debtlessmanc said:

See what i mean...

Well, it isn't my fault that you chose to lie instead of being honest. Criticism of the EU is fine and normal, when backed by facts but mostly it is just misinformation and lies. 

You yourself are involved in the same lies, pretending to have voted remain. 

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19 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Well, it isn't my fault that you chose to lie instead of being honest. Criticism of the EU is fine and normal, when backed by facts but mostly it is just misinformation and lies. 

You yourself are involved in the same lies, pretending to have voted remain. 

Sorry forget to mention they they are psychic too- They can detect leavers at 3 miles. I am an academic, my children want the EU, my sons girlfriend is french and wants to move to the UK. I did vote remain- it will be there problem to sort out not mine ultimately. If i was really a sad old Childless git living in a flat by myself perhaps i would vote leave. Your only problem with me is that i am not a passionate believer that is all.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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Just now, debtlessmanc said:

Sorry forget to mention they they are psychic too- They can detect leavers at 3 miles. I am an academic, my children want the EU, my sons girlfriend is french and wants to move to the UK. I did did vote

leave for them etc. If i was really a sad old Childless git living in a flat by myself perhaps i would vote leave. Your only problem with me is that i am not a passionate believer that is all.

No, my problem with you is the same as my problem with so many leave voters (not all, a few are honest). You are a compulsive liar. You guys just cannot help yourselves. That is how I know I'm on the right side of this debate.

I don't have to be psychic, though I can read you like a book. Lucky enough you're not smart enough to hide your own lies:

 

 

Quoted from your 2017 post:

Quote

The most recent surveys on capital punishment are against it.

i voted leave because I of an enormous residual hatred of Bliar. Not only did he start illegal wars, allow in half of Eastern Europe immediately impoverishing friend and relatives who were tradesman- but he also promised a referendum on Lisbon we never had. If the politicians are horrified about it, perhaps they should occasionally do what they promise.

 

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18 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

No, my problem with you is the same as my problem with so many leave voters (not all, a few are honest). You are a compulsive liar. You guys just cannot help yourselves. That is how I know I'm on the right side of this debate.

I don't have to be psychic, though I can read you like a book. Lucky enough you're not smart enough to hide your own lies:

 

 

Quoted from your 2017 post:

 

Felt empathy with- at that point i was enjoying winding you all up. Trying to understand your anger, that i did not share and that is the real truth- also as i pointed out, my wife is a confirmed brexiter and i was worried she would read it at the time - we are cool now. Its the internet- to me a mechanism to understand others i would not normally speak to.

 

Edited by debtlessmanc
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12 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Shall i dig out where you accused me of lying about my ex girlfriend who was murdered in a racist attack - when i proved it you went quiet - for a while, nasty evil little person.

 I was not involved in that conversation at all so I don't think you'll be able to prove it.

Anyway, you're just another liar. There are plenty going around. One is running our country.

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4 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

 I was not involved in that conversation at all so I don't think you'll be able to prove it.

Anyway, you're just another liar. There are plenty going around. One is running our country.

sorry that was a different insulting remainer. who accused me of being racist. happens a lot.]

Thank goodness we live in a country were we do not NEED to tell you how we voted. but i guess the two clothes hangers let you divine it.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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12 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

 I was not involved in that conversation at all so I don't think you'll be able to prove it.

Anyway, you're just another liar. There are plenty going around. One is running our country.

How is the one bed flat and the tins of beans going? at least my ex beauty queen - multi- millionaire wife alleviated my depression. Still lying of course :)

Edited by debtlessmanc
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31 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

 I was not involved in that conversation at all so I don't think you'll be able to prove it.

Anyway, you're just another liar. There are plenty going around. One is running our country.

If i was, personally, to prove it to you would that make  your life less worth living, just wondering

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22 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

@debtlessmanc You've been caught. Have the decency to just admit it and move on. Blubbering about some conversation I wasn't involved in is silly.

 

There is no caught on here- we know nothing about each other.

my guess about you, approaching middle aged, very self rightous, self loathing white person. Believes they have failed because of the reasons the hard left present to you. Is convinced that the rest of the eu is better though have never lived there- you have never, ever in the forum stated anything about yourself. Eg worker abroad, speak other languages, children, nephews/nieces etc. Go on, indulges, give us an overview- how many languages do you speak, ethnic heritage, places in the EU you have lived? You seem to desperately want my life to be a lie, because you cannot compare? There cannot be a lie for you because you never stated any fact really, just in case. You want to prove your self through criticism and nothing else. Another reply like your last one will prove it.

btw if you do have kids? did you ever tell them there was a santa claus, because if you did you are a hypoctical liar.

Edited by debtlessmanc
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4 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

But some remainers do say it.  I gave a link to the Guardian where someone had said it.

 

And my "imaginary" friends. Am I expected to provide names and contact details, as well as exact quotes from verbal conversations several years ago?

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32 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

There are quite a lot of remainers on this website. If the view is widely held, just quote the posts. Otherwise I think you might just be presenting a strawman and arguing in bad faith.

Yes, I know it is the Telegraph, but worth a read. Without the UK, other countries are having to make their objections known outright.

Quote

At one point France’s president Macron even accused the Dutch of being the new Brits. “You are taking the place of the UK around the table,”

.......

Several other countries let us take all the flak, tut-tutted sanctimoniously about how the British weren’t committed to “more Europe” and then quietly signed up to whatever opt-outs we negotiated.

Netherlands replaces the UK as Europe's troublemaker

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Yes most Europeans saw the English as undermining the EU. Does that mean that when the UK is out, it will be smooth sailing. Well not really. The disparities between EU members are great, so I wonder which expert has ever thought it would be easy one the UK is out. 

Otherwise you can easily transpose rule 34 to how you can find any kind of opinion on the internet. 

Btw is it smooth sailing in the U.S.? Not really ?

Edited by Freki
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3 hours ago, dugsbody said:

No, my problem with you is the same as my problem with so many leave voters (not all, a few are honest). You are a compulsive liar. You guys just cannot help yourselves. That is how I know I'm on the right side of this debate.

I don't have to be psychic, though I can read you like a book. Lucky enough you're not smart enough to hide your own lies:

 

 

Quoted from your 2017 post:

 

You dont have a life, how can you spend so much time on looking back at his posts.

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9 hours ago, shlomo said:

You dont have a life, how can you spend so much time on looking back at his posts.

Weird how you attack me instead of the fraud.

Anyway, I didn't. I remembered the post from before then when he started claiming to be a remain voter, all the while ranting like a brexiter about Eastern Europeans, I knew he was a fraud.

I know you guys don't care about lies though. Nice morals.

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2 minutes ago, dugsbody said:

Weird how you attack me instead of the fraud.

Anyway, I didn't. I remembered the post from before then when he started claiming to be a remain voter, all the while ranting like a brexiter about Eastern Europeans, I knew he was a fraud.

I know you guys don't care about lies though. Nice morals.

You are both genuine guys but different points of view.

you need to move on or you will have a heart attack 

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17 minutes ago, shlomo said:

You are both genuine guys but different points of view.

you need to move on or you will have a heart attack 

Thank you for your concern. While I live and vote in this country I will continue to point out that liars are liars and our country is being run by liars enacting a path that was won by lies.

I don't think that is a good thing but I realise brexiters are more concerned with hating the EU than maintaining a base of morals.

After all, you elected the prime liar. What could be more fitting?

Edited by dugsbody
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4 hours ago, Dorkins said:

What do any of the last 5 pages of posts have to do with the immigration rules set by the UK government?

I guess the last five pages of this thread have shown that we have become very divided on the migration issue, with entrenched views on both sides.  I get the impression that both sides see their view as somehow “morally right” and I am not sure I can see why.  There are obviously different groups that benefit in different ways by the changes, but I cannot see how this makes one side intrinsically right and one wrong. 
 

Am I alone in finding the polarised nature of this thread (and views more generally on immigration and Brexit) quite scary?

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