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18 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

GDP up 1000% since 1991. 
GDP per capital in certain regions now exceed EU average. Poland now officially classified as “developed”. Unemployment fallen from 20% to 4%.
 

1990 $66bln

2019 $5525bln

All the with caveat that its in US$ Adn the country was eating grass in from 1990->1998.

The major  growth is from 2000 to 2008. Then the graph level off, not really moving for the last 10 years.

 

 

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Media articles coming thick and fast now

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/01/eu-scheme-to-help-roma-prisoners-stay-uk-after-brexit

EU states very concerned that its citizens in our prisons be allowed to stay here, That the Roma be allowed to stay. Also halfway down article admits that the figures look wrong and latest estimate is 3.8M EU citizens in UK. 
People wonder about were the cynicism about the EU comes from. Is the concern about prisoners and rhe roma bigotry - if so where in the uk or on the continent?

 

Edited by debtlessmanc
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On 29/02/2020 at 10:17, debtlessmanc said:

Funnily enough, I have been frequenting a new coffee outlet in Manchester and talking to the staff. All are Brazilian/Venezuelan -with Spanish or Portuguese passports. I recently had a conversation with a Portuguese colleague were he openly said that Portugal is very generous with handing out passports to Brazilians or indeed asylum seekers from former African colonies as it knows full well they will not stay in Portugal but move to Northern Europe immediately. Of course, as usual the staff in the shop are lovely people for whom customer always knows best. 

Again if the U.K. shuts this path off it will be  a problem for the EU in general. The number of states people will aspire to live in goes down.

 

There are 100s if not millions of SouthAmericans.  All in the UK on Spanish passports or illegally.

You only have to go into a Tesco and see a few shelves of Brazilian staples.

I noticed one vocal SA:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49960647

The mental disconnect of an Ecuadorian protesting bout Brexit, striking for a London living wage and better rights ... all whilst piling into London, pushing up living costs, costing UKGOV a fortune (these are families, so will be drawing TCs and costing 8k/kid schooling.

The irony of South American workers, scamming in London, launching a legal claim against Brexit!, interfering with UK politics.

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/b/iwgb-launches-crowdfunding-appeal-to-meet-legal-costs-for-challenging-johnson-brexit-deadline

EJuxNacWoAEPLTz.jpeg?itok=-dK8wfQM&c=0f8

(Pretty much all 'Spanish')

Not as ironic as marxist professor crossing a South Americans picket line in London:

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/feb/07/marxist-academics-accused-of-undermining-workers-protest

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Media articles coming thick and fast now

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/01/eu-scheme-to-help-roma-prisoners-stay-uk-after-brexit

EU states very concerned that its citizens in our prisons be allowed to stay here, That the Roma be allowed to stay. Also halfway down article admits that the figures look wrong and latest estimate is 3.8M EU citizens in UK. 
People wonder about were the cynicism about the EU comes from...

 

Vale de Almeida said an obstacle was the lack of firm figures on how many EU nationals are in the UK, with the latest estimates as high as 3.8 million. “I don’t think any of us would want, you know, hundreds of thousands of citizens to be left behind,” he said.

So ..... ~ 3months after GE19 the '3m Euer' has gone up ~25%.

Again, the EUers will continue to rise.

By my rough n ready guesstimate which, by the day, is proving to be more accurate - or honest - then UKGOV and EU figures, I reckon theres 2m-3m Western Europeans in the UK and 4m to 5M EE.

The majority all dependent on in work benefit and free at the point of use public services.

The numbers will cause huge problems as the gap between the money the (useless0 NHS has been claiming back from EU states is dwarfed by the cost of treatment esp. pregnancy.

 

 

 

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Another new article!

apparently spain and germany are worried about the unexpected consequnces of FOM too

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/02/germany-spain-scramble-reverse-the-flight-youth-eastern-europe

Funny that the apparent home of bigotry itself, the UK, has no such problems

talk about people voting with their feet..

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15 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Another new article!

apparently spain and germany are worried about the unexpected consequnces of FOM too

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/02/germany-spain-scramble-reverse-the-flight-youth-eastern-europe

Funny that the apparent home of bigotry itself, the UK, has no such problems

talk about people voting with their feet..

Eastern European countries have complained that brain drain is skewing the European project against them: Croatia’s prime minister recently demanded an EU-wide response, warning that depopulation threatened Croatia’s very survival.

Brain drain?????

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3 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Eastern European countries have complained that brain drain is skewing the European project against them: Croatia’s prime minister recently demanded an EU-wide response, warning that depopulation threatened Croatia’s very survival.

Brain drain?????

To be fair i  was talking to a croatian scientist just after the vote (then it was not clear that croatians would get FOM to the uk). She said all her young colleagues were disappointed as they wanted to get  jobs at uk universities. I gather that it has all the social/economic problems of Italy and others. Another croatian once told me they had a period being run by a president who could not even speak  croatian!

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from 2013

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/07/spanish-youth-germany-unemployment-crisis

The Greek rate of youth unemployment now stands at more than 60%, Spain's is more than 50% and Italy and Portugal are at 40%. Germany, with its shortage of skilled workers, the highest employment level it has known for almost 25 years, and an ageing population, has become a magnet for this section of European society.

From Lisbon to Madrid, the Goethe Institute, the body representing Germany's cultural interests abroad, has reported a record uptake in its language classes, as growing numbers decide to learn German to set them up for the workplace. It is scrambling to find teachers to meet the demand.

Meanwhile, the job sections of advertisement websites are inundated with Spaniards, Portuguese and Italians offering to do everything from washing up to au pair jobs, often for just a few hundred euros a month.

 

...

While they can't do much about their weather, it is widely agreed that Germans need to work on their hospitality. Many southern Europeans, used to family-oriented lifestyles, complain about the lack of warmth, the fact that, particularly in smalltown Germany, it is hard to socialise with people after work, and about a general sense of hostility over widespread perceptions that southern Europeans have brought the problems on themselves.

"I've seen the look some people give me when I'm in a group speaking Spanish and I know what they're thinking about us: that we're after their charity, that we got ourselves in this mess," says Granados.

It is one of the reasons why Spaniards in particular often stay for a short time – 70% of Spaniards who emigrate to Germany stay for less than a year, according to official statistics.

Then they get to their mid to late 30s, looking to have a family.

So where do he 70% move next? Back home for a job? Spanish economy has barely improved since 2008ish - its still all 1000E/m jobs on short term contracts.

They pretty much all moved to the UK, where the in work benefits are much more lucrative than the Hartz money- 1000E/m all in.

There, the Spanihs get to have kids, get accommodation paid, only work 16h whilst they work on the pointless schemes.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, spyguy said:

from 2013

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/07/spanish-youth-germany-unemployment-crisis

The Greek rate of youth unemployment now stands at more than 60%, Spain's is more than 50% and Italy and Portugal are at 40%. Germany, with its shortage of skilled workers, the highest employment level it has known for almost 25 years, and an ageing population, has become a magnet for this section of European society.

From Lisbon to Madrid, the Goethe Institute, the body representing Germany's cultural interests abroad, has reported a record uptake in its language classes, as growing numbers decide to learn German to set them up for the workplace. It is scrambling to find teachers to meet the demand.

Meanwhile, the job sections of advertisement websites are inundated with Spaniards, Portuguese and Italians offering to do everything from washing up to au pair jobs, often for just a few hundred euros a month.

 

...

While they can't do much about their weather, it is widely agreed that Germans need to work on their hospitality. Many southern Europeans, used to family-oriented lifestyles, complain about the lack of warmth, the fact that, particularly in smalltown Germany, it is hard to socialise with people after work, and about a general sense of hostility over widespread perceptions that southern Europeans have brought the problems on themselves.

"I've seen the look some people give me when I'm in a group speaking Spanish and I know what they're thinking about us: that we're after their charity, that we got ourselves in this mess," says Granados.

It is one of the reasons why Spaniards in particular often stay for a short time – 70% of Spaniards who emigrate to Germany stay for less than a year, according to official statistics.

Then they get to their mid to late 30s, looking to have a family.

So where do he 70% move next? Back home for a job? Spanish economy has barely improved since 2008ish - its still all 1000E/m jobs on short term contracts.

They pretty much all moved to the UK, where the in work benefits are much more lucrative than the Hartz money- 1000E/m all in.

There, the Spanihs get to have kids, get accommodation paid, only work 16h whilst they work on the pointless schemes.

 

 

Even uk people- our latest appointment is british but held a prestigious german fellowship. She got out before the first year was up. The breaking point was when the other people in the block of appartments they lived in ganged up and complained that she had put her and her partners names on the letterbox and they had different surnames...

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5 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Even uk people- our latest appointment is british but held a prestigious german fellowship. She got out before the first year was up. The breaking point was when the other people in the block of appartments they lived in ganged up and complained that she had put her and her partners names on the letterbox and they had different surnames...

I had a brief 2 month trial in Germany.

Outside of the main cities, its impossible to live and work without having a non working spouse to shop and sort stuff out.

 

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23 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

To be fair i  was talking to a croatian scientist just after the vote (then it was not clear that croatians would get FOM to the uk). She said all her young colleagues were disappointed as they wanted to get  jobs at uk universities. I gather that it has all the social/economic problems of Italy and others. Another croatian once told me they had a period being run by a president who could not even speak  croatian!

It has been well documented on economic friction between the working class and the EE, is your peer group affected by EE competition 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

1990 $66bln

2019 $5525bln

All the with caveat that its in US$ Adn the country was eating grass in from 1990->1998.

The major  growth is from 2000 to 2008. Then the graph level off, not really moving for the last 10 years.

 

 

You talk shite, it’s had growth near the top of the world.

https://images.app.goo.gl/yyUV5kPWjCffiGgq6
 

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51 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

You talk shite, it’s had growth near the top of the world.

https://images.app.goo.gl/yyUV5kPWjCffiGgq6
 

World bank figures

https://data.worldbank.org/country/poland

 

Its hard to say how much Poland has grown in the last 15 years, at least internally.

Youll have to remove the flow of EU money and UK benefits.

 

Edited by spyguy
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48 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

It’s where qualified people emigrate from countries with a good eduction system to counties with lower educational standards.

Say, most of Europe, to the UK.

Like all ex USSR states, Poland had a small number of highly trained technocrats and large number of grunts.

To that, you have to add the massive disruption from 1990 -> 2000 where the state pretty much collapsed and stopped paying for education and other social spend. The later is pretty much why ~50% of Poles decamped hen they had kids.

 

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2 minutes ago, winkie said:

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-students/uk-to-allow-foreign-students-to-stay-for-two-years-after-graduation-to-find-work-idUKKCN1VW0ZP

All international students to be allowed to stay for two years after graduation to look for work in the uk.?

Actually this is just re-instating the situation as it was until around 5 years ago

Edited by debtlessmanc
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2 minutes ago, debtlessmanc said:

Actually this is just re-instating the situation as it was until around 5 years ago

......any foreign student will first have to be quite wealthy to pay the fees, secondly they will be competing with the same jobs our own graduates are applying for with a huge student loan to pay, other than that they can go for any job they fancy?......we want the money and the brains.?

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6 minutes ago, winkie said:

......any foreign student will first have to be quite wealthy to pay the fees, secondly they will be competing with the same jobs our own graduates are applying for with a huge student loan to pay, other than that they can go for any job they fancy?......we want the money and the brains.?

That is the logic and it works, for every students that get a job 10 will pay £75k to study in the UK, £750K for the UK to employ a highly intelligent indian guy who will pay high taxes. It is a great deal.

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1 minute ago, debtlessmanc said:

That is the logic and it works, for every students that get a job 10 will pay £75k to study in the UK, £750K for the UK to employ a highly intelligent indian guy who will pay high taxes. It is a great deal.

What has being an Indian have anything to do with anything......l am talking about wealthy people from overseas any place, any nationality.?

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1 minute ago, winkie said:

What has being an Indian have anything to do with anything......l am talking about wealthy people from overseas any place, any nationality.?

It was an example- 90% of out msc students are chinese - which is a concern in some ways

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