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Mass changes to UK immigration requirements


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Tomorrows headlines.

 

  • 70 points needed to enter UK: 20 points for a job offer; 20 points for job being skilled (A-level or above); 10 points for speaking English; 20 points for salary of £25.6k or more; 20 points for working in a “shortage occupation”; 10 points for PhD; 20 points for science PhD.
  • Must have a job offer unless applicant is exceptionally highly skilled.
  • No way for low-skilled workers to enter UK other than for seasonal farming work.
  • No access to benefits or free NHS for migrants who have lived in UK for less than five years.
  • Seventy per cent of those who have come to UK from the EU would be ineligible. But none of this applies to EU citizens currently living in UK, who are subject to the settled status scheme.


 

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Needing to be able to speak English, needing to be educated to at least A level or equivalent, having skills we need not ones like painting nails we don't and being paid enough to not end up on tax credits and housing benefit to pay the bills.

Who is going to clean DIane Abbott's house so cheaply - or undercut the local established plumbers (cash in hand for a discount anyone?) when Keir Starmer needs a new bathroom installed. Who is going to make my grande caramel spiced latte machiatto with almond milk, two shots and cream on top? How will the middle classes of London cope when they have to pay more (i.e. enough to live on in London) for someone to do their basic chores.

Its an outrage I tell you an outrage!

Less cheap unskilled labour -  higher wages for local unskilled labour? Remember the days when Labour cared about the working classes?

Edited by MARTINX9
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It'll be interesting to see what happens. I do know several Polish building outfits that could still bring in labour that meets the 70 points no problem; Sparks, Plumbers, Floor layers etc. even painters make that in London/SE. I wonder if the salary requirement can include "average overtime available"? Of course it wont be so easy though.

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5 minutes ago, smash said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens. I do know several Polish building outfits that could still bring in labour that meets the 70 points no problem; Sparks, Plumbers, Floor layers etc. even painters make that in London/SE. I wonder if the salary requirement can include "average overtime available"? Of course it wont be so easy though.

You wonder how anybody gets anything done to their houses in Australia, Canada or New Zealand that operate exactly the same system as is being proposed here. It may well be plumbers we need one year or electricians the next - but we can control the flow and ensure they are paid a decent living wage when they come here.

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26 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

You wonder how anybody gets anything done to their houses in Australia, Canada or New Zealand that operate exactly the same system as is being proposed here. It may well be plumbers we need one year or electricians the next - but we can control the flow and ensure they are paid a decent living wage when they come here.

Does the Australian system (for instance) reduce the amount of migrants coming in?

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59 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Does the Australian system (for instance) reduce the amount of migrants coming in?

It is up to their government - they can change the rules at any time to reduce or increase the flows. What it does ensure is that those coming in have skills in areas where Australia has shortages - so are likely to get well paid work and not rely on welfare - although the Aussie government even limits access to that as well as limiting access to their national health care (medicare) system initially. They also can limit visas for certain less popular states - so you can work in Tasmania but not Melbourne and Sydney where its easier to get staff.

And yes - their rules on access for skilled migrants to healthcare and welfare are tough!  But if the Aussie people don't like the policies they can change the government - inside the EU you have very limited control and cannot deny equal access to welfare and healthcare for newly arrived migrants compared to citizens.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/06/irish-family-darragh-hyde-anthony-hyde-christine-hyde-allowed-to-stay-in-australia

Edited by MARTINX9
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12 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

It is up to their government - they can change the rules at any time to reduce or increase the flows. What it does ensure is that those coming in have skills in areas where Australia has shortages - so are likely to get well paid work and not rely on welfare - although the Aussie government even limits access to that as well as limiting access to their national health care (medicare) system initially. They also can limit visas for certain less popular states - so you can work in Tasmania but not Melbourne and Sydney where its easier to get staff.

And yes - their rules on access for skilled migrants to healthcare and welfare are tough!  But if the Aussie people don't like the policies they can change the government - inside the EU you have very limited control and cannot deny equal access to welfare and healthcare for newly arrived migrants compared to citizens.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jul/06/irish-family-darragh-hyde-anthony-hyde-christine-hyde-allowed-to-stay-in-australia

..if these numbers to go by...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate (forecast 2015-20)

NZ - 3.2%

UK - 3.9%

Canada - 6.6%

Australia - 6.4%

...is that we may well get more educated migrants, but the numbers (most likely) wont decrease...We'll most likely swap EU for non EU migrants.

Edited by Dave Beans
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4 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

is that we may well get more educated migrants, but the numbers (most likely) wont decrease...We'll most likely swap EU for non EU migrants

Not a good sign. Immigration will have to come down. NHS is already f****d up and throwing money at NHS not solving problems. We may see massive non EU immigration to UK. Interesting how this country demographics change in coming years. Boris, watch out.

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Significant number of people coming on visitor visa, study visa, marriage visa are neither applying for extension of their visas nor going back to their countries. These people form bulk of 4 million illegal immigrants in UK. How can government find and deport them ? By mandating every person in UK to carry ID card with them all the time on streets ? Deporting illegal immigrants will help us in getting educated immigrants with valid visa without effecting migration numbers. EU migration is just a cherry on cake.

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Who is going to do all the unskilled low paid jobs?

Jobs like cleaners, catering jobs, building jobs, careers, delivery drivers, cab drivers .... etc.

UK natives doesn't want to do this kind of jobs. The problem is low salary and high accommodation costs.

This people are mostly renting, BJ will decimate BTL landlords.

 

Edited by rollover
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Have no idea, but is there not the risk that high skilled workers from all over the world will push down the wages of British educated and skilled workers wirh higher paid jobs.....the ones that have ~£30k to £40k of student debt to repay @ 6% interest rate compounding??

Edited by winkie
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16 minutes ago, rollover said:

Who is going to do all the unskilled low paid jobs?

Jobs like cleaners, catering jobs, building jobs, careers .... etc.

UK natives doesn't want to do this kind of jobs. The problem is low salary and high accommodation costs.

This people are mostly renting, BJ will decimate BTL landlords.

 

They would do the work if it was better paid, some of the low paid jobs are at the moment having to be topped up by benefits because the pay is not enough to pay the rents unless sharing with other people or if accommodation is provided by employer, like a live in nanny or maid......things we have got used to being cheap will be increasing in price, or we will have to be doing more of the jobs ourselves, learn how to decorate and cook.?

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1 hour ago, winkie said:

They would do the work if it was better paid, some of the low paid jobs are at the moment having to be topped up by benefits because the pay is not enough to pay the rents unless sharing with other people or if accommodation is provided by employer, like a live in nanny or maid......things we have got used to being cheap will be increasing in price, or we will have to be doing more of the jobs ourselves, learn how to decorate and cook.?

Employers and the government seem to look on part-time work as 'pocket money' to supplement benefits. 

One of the bigger issues that was just beginning to get mentioned at the end of the last election campaign was Underemployment. My wife and two of her friends work for different employers, one a council, they've been told that instead of laying people off they are reducing everyone's hours by 50%, from 16 hours a week to 8. They seem to think they are doing people a favour by keeping 6 people in a token job instead of 3 people on a 'decent' wage. I assume that's also 6 people instead of 3 off of the unemployment figure. 

If you allowed people to opt for full time work with their current employer if they wanted it or to move from the 'magic' 16 hours to say 24 hours a week then. I suspect millions would move from part time to full time, and much of the requirement for extra staff through immigration would disappear. 

Edited by regprentice
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There is not enough demand in the economy to pay the wages required for full employment for all those that want it.....many things are now automated, labour and brains are expensive.....better to share the pain?....poor wages and high debt = less spending.?

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2 hours ago, rollover said:

UK natives doesn't want to do this kind of jobs. The problem is low salary and high accommodation costs.

So the wages go up, or the job doesn't get done.

The problem is benefits. Why work cleaning toilets when Big Brother will rob your potential employers and hand you a cheeky grand per month?

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11 minutes ago, winkie said:

There is not enough demand in the economy to pay the wages required for full employment for all those that want it

Nonsense. Government intervention through regulation, taxation and welfare has distorted the labour market so much that prices, supply and demand are not responding to each other.

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6 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

..if these numbers to go by...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate (forecast 2015-20)

NZ - 3.2%

UK - 3.9%

Canada - 6.6%

Australia - 6.4%

...is that we may well get more educated migrants, but the numbers (most likely) wont decrease...We'll most likely swap EU for non EU migrants.

I doubt many people would have a problem with 100,000 rocket scientists and brain surgeons (for example) from outside the EU compared to tens of thousands of car washers and baristas from inside the EU.

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Nearly every post mentions 'low pay' and 'unskilled' in the same breath. Some recognise the problems of low pay and the burden on taxpayers who subsidise shoddy employers with our taxes.

Its about time the nasties who enjoy the low paid being the low paid accepted the folly of the arguments in favour of low pay. In case they need reminding, it's not just the 'unskilled' who are low paid,  damn near everybody is underpaid. 
Seeing as how this Tory government has already raised minimum wage by an average 6.2%, let's see how that pans out in other pay rises.

 

This thread has the opportunity to blow the dog whistle again. But thinking back to the outrage when Labour said they would hike minimum wage in their manifesto,  the silence now  from conservative supporters when the tories raised minimum wage is deafening..._

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6 minutes ago, Will! said:

I doubt many people would have a problem with 100,000 rocket scientists and brain surgeons (for example) from outside the EU compared to tens of thousands of car washers and baristas from inside the EU.

...even if the new system didn't cut the numbers?  I thought that was the point? (pardon the pun)...

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This is a good news for Rejoin. This will definitely have an negative impact on the UK economy. Some businesses will go down and less people means a smaller economy.  Skilled people will avoid the UK since its reputation as an open and progressive country has been severely damaged by Brexit.  

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2 hours ago, rollover said:

Who is going to do all the unskilled low paid jobs?

Jobs like cleaners, catering jobs, building jobs, careers, delivery drivers, cab drivers .... etc.

UK natives doesn't want to do this kind of jobs. The problem is low salary and high accommodation costs.

This people are mostly renting, BJ will decimate BTL landlords.

 

The rental population will be restored by importing millions of East Asian 'students'.

And if they can work part-time stocking shelves and wiping old people's bottoms then so much the better.

front.jpg?itok=lTHcabjM&f=1&nofb=1

 

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56 minutes ago, Locke said:

So the wages go up, or the job doesn't get done.

Precisely - "but who will work in my restaurant for slave wages without people from the EU?"

Well, you have to pay proper wages.

If doing so puts you out of business then, frankly, that's probably a good thing.  Why do I say that?  Well, if your restaurant can only survive by paying slave wages and robbing Poland and Romania of all their young people it's probably a good thing overall for the human race for it to close, and let those people do something else.

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9 hours ago, MARTINX9 said:

Needing to be able to speak English, needing to be educated to at least A level or equivalent, having skills we need not ones like painting nails we don't and being paid enough to not end up on tax credits and housing benefit to pay the bills.

Who is going to clean DIane Abbott's house so cheaply - or undercut the local established plumbers (cash in hand for a discount anyone?) when Keir Starmer needs a new bathroom installed. Who is going to make my grande caramel spiced latte machiatto with almond milk, two shots and cream on top? How will the middle classes of London cope when they have to pay more (i.e. enough to live on in London) for someone to do their basic chores.

Its an outrage I tell you an outrage!

Less cheap unskilled labour -  higher wages for local unskilled labour? Remember the days when Labour cared about the working classes?

"or undercut the local established plumbers"

Must be a london thing? As I have never come across any tradesman who are not local born and bred up north...

I'd welcome immigration for tradesman - its nigh on impossible to find anyone to turn up and do a job nowadays. All too busy or too disorganised.

 

Edited by MancTom
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7 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

..if these numbers to go by...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate (forecast 2015-20)

NZ - 3.2%

UK - 3.9%

Canada - 6.6%

Australia - 6.4%

...is that we may well get more educated migrants, but the numbers (most likely) wont decrease...We'll most likely swap EU for non EU migrants.

What do we need more of - car washers and nail bar workers from eastern Europe or doctors and engineers from anywhere else in the world. The former have a legal right to move here at present and up to 31 December at least - whether we think they add net value to the nation financially or not - the latter have to go through hoops to do so.

In the end Australia, NZ and Canada could make those figures zero at any time by tightening or changing the rules - or as NZ did following recent earthquakes increase visas for skilled builders and tradesmen. Our elected government decides.

That's the beauty of it - we have an immigration system where our government decides who comes here reflecting our needs and requirements. Inside the EU we had no real control at all over who comes or not - skilled or unskilled - and whether they were eligible for welfare or free healthcare from day 1. But from 1 Jan 2021 we choose who comes here - the person doesn't choose us. That means we can also plan numbers too - in terms of the impact on housing, school places, the NHS and other services.

I think the term being taking back control - where we judge people equally based on their skills not the colour of their passport. And we can vote out the people who set those rules - which we could never do in the EU.

 

Edited by MARTINX9
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  • 428 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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