Mikhail Liebenstein Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 No not the anti virus, but the Iconic British Motorcycle Manufacturer. https://motorbikewriter.com/norton-motorcycles-bust/ Just seen a news report, looks like lots of customers and pension investors have lost money. Another Brexit success story! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiltedjen Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 their prime customer base is now a bit too old to mount anything more adventurous than a stanner stair lift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted January 30, 2020 Author Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, jiltedjen said: their prime customer base is now a bit too old to mount anything more adventurous than a stanner stair lift Just fascinating to see how much efforts the likes of George Osborne and other Conservatives put into this firm. Following Brexit, a lot of other British icons will undoubtedly go bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Last I heard the Chinese were the biggest buyer of british bikes. Is bsa and Morgan still about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 The last time I saw one of those new Nortons was in France and had a Swiss plate, I gave the rider a "nice ride mate" nod and he gave me one back. Only ever seen couple of other examples in London, very rare spot. Reading the guardian article on them going TU its not at all a surprise, the numbers/money make it look like a ride into scamsville for what was basically a "shedbuilt" specialist producing very negligible output. Additionally, why you would go for that bike when you could get a Triumph with all its proven development/reliability/service/upgrades etc at a much better price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Another Brexit success story! Should get an Italian Ducati, they are good for the economy, break down lots so require spending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Arpeggio said: Should get an Italian Ducati, they are good for the economy, break down lots so require spending. Not anymore they don't. Possibly not the most robust electrics but the days of exploding Desmo valve systems are long long gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 A large financial/pension con pretending to be the formerly known as the Norton motty bike company goes down, taking peoples pensions with it. Early rumbles https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2019/06/21/regulator-intervenes-after-pension-switching-chaos/ https://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/en/media-hub/press-releases/pension-scammers-ordered-to-repay-millions-they-took-from-victims Kaboom: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal Maybe one of these 'great british company' booster people can explain why it was a god idea for people with small pensions to put all their money in Norton?? Metrobanks involved too. Lovely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: No not the anti virus, but the Iconic British Motorcycle Manufacturer. https://motorbikewriter.com/norton-motorcycles-bust/ Just seen a news report, looks like lots of customers and pension investors have lost money. Another Brexit success story! Come on fella your better than this ! Nothing to do with Brexit - I am a big motorcycle petrolhead - strategy was all over the place - ( 50k bike that looked like something from the 50’s) last hurrah was a dead copy of the CCM Spitfire a British brand going from strength to strength Norton had been in and out of owners for years so just for you and just for balance.... CCM presented the Spitfire concept in Feb 17 - unbelievable success - 1 year waiting list - I have one of the original 150 made and an RAF bobber coming https://www.ccm-motorcycles.com/ https://motorcyclesdata.com/2019/12/16/triumph-motorcycles/ Triumph grow again - massive success story https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.motorcyclenews.com/amp/news/2018/december/top-british-motorcycles/ - The Ariel atom and ace motorcycle great success https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2015/03/05/royal-enfield-returns-to-the-u-k-with-the-opening-of-leicestershire-technology-center/ Royal Enfield now has 500 staff in that centre The British motorcycle industry is in the best state it has been in 50 years Apart from that your spot on.....? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, spyguy said: A large financial/pension con pretending to be the formerly known as the Norton motty bike company goes down, taking peoples pensions with it. Early rumbles https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2019/06/21/regulator-intervenes-after-pension-switching-chaos/ https://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/en/media-hub/press-releases/pension-scammers-ordered-to-repay-millions-they-took-from-victims Kaboom: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal Maybe one of these 'great british company' booster people can explain why it was a god idea for people with small pensions to put all their money in Norton?? Metrobanks involved too. Lovely. Cant help noticing Its always small pensions. I guess they are the least likely people to pay a grand or so for independent advice & scrutiny & most likely to look for high returns & tax free wheezes. Surely better to start pension younger & have a decent pot on later life? Regarding Norton. Aside from the dodgy behaviour, basing a business on high end niche is a poor strategy. Fireblade SP2 production is secured by the annual sale of millions of mopeds, scooters & 125s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy T Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Just fascinating to see how much efforts the likes of George Osborne and other Conservatives put into this firm. Following Brexit, a lot of other British icons will undoubtedly go bust. Oh of course, prior to Brexit, no British firms ever went bust, British manufacturing had direction & world class investment, and there were never any financial scandals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 17 minutes ago, hotblack42 said: Cant help noticing Its always small pensions. I guess they are the least likely people to pay a grand or so for independent advice & scrutiny & most likely to look for high returns & tax free wheezes. Surely better to start pension younger & have a decent pot on later life? Regarding Norton. Aside from the dodgy behaviour, basing a business on high end niche is a poor strategy. Fireblade SP2 production is secured by the annual sale of millions of mopeds, scooters & 125s. Exactly in my other examples - John Bloor took Triumph with massive risk to being a main stream manufacturer Whilst CCM are niche family owned for 50 years they know how to make light weight motorcycles - I have been to the factory and sat at the bench where they thought of the Spitfire idea - all production turned over to it - their thinking was lots of people like custom bikes but want a reliable one that handled - it was a typical north west slightly wry practical dig at all the beardy trendies in Hoxton I believe - local lad Foggy now the brand ambassador - guy Martin , Henry Cole, James Martin the chef all promote them for free. - now got James Blunt promoting them http://online.fliphtml5.com/gyqxu/euun/#p=10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Andy T said: Oh of course, prior to Brexit, no British firms ever went bust, British manufacturing had direction & world class investment, and there were never any financial scandals. Spot on 8 hours ago, smash said: Not anymore they don't. Possibly not the most robust electrics but the days of exploding Desmo valve systems are long long gone. Absolutely - I love Alfa’s and have the new Guilla - people still say that about them I have had 3 bmw RS big boxers as my main bike - more niggles than my hand built CCM spitfire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy T Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 31 minutes ago, hotblack42 said: Cant help noticing Its always small pensions. I guess they are the least likely people to pay a grand or so for independent advice & scrutiny & most likely to look for high returns & tax free wheezes. Surely better to start pension younger & have a decent pot on later life? Regarding Norton. Aside from the dodgy behaviour, basing a business on high end niche is a poor strategy. Fireblade SP2 production is secured by the annual sale of millions of mopeds, scooters & 125s. You have to wonder what sort of people were putting money into these so called pensions. How can it be a 'pension' if its 100% invested shares of just one company? You'd have to be mad or stupid. Same type of people that invested into things like Kevin McCloud's housebuilding scheme. Not my definition of financially vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nome Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Up until now it's been the manufacturers of expensive toys for rich boys that have done well since 2008... curious to now see Norton going bust and Aston Martin in serious trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 58 minutes ago, hotblack42 said: Cant help noticing Its always small pensions. I guess they are the least likely people to pay a grand or so for independent advice & scrutiny & most likely to look for high returns & tax free wheezes. Surely better to start pension younger & have a decent pot on later life? If your DB transfer value is above £30,000 you are required to take financial advice before transferring it. If your DB transfer value is below £30,000 you are not. That's why scammers get an easier ride for smaller transfer values. Of course for larger transfer values you can take advice and then ignore it - but that sort of behaviour can alert the scheme to look into it further and potentially save you from yourself if you're about to pay it to a scammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallish Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 hours ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Following Brexit, a lot of other British icons will undoubtedly go bust. fgs zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 36 minutes ago, Andy T said: Oh of course, prior to Brexit, no British firms ever went bust, British manufacturing had direction & world class investment, and there were never any financial scandals. No mate you are wrong anything that happens now is all the fault of Brexit LOL HMV Debenhams Beales Flybe Book People Jessops Clinton Rads Mothercare Pattesserievaleria - none of those went bust when we were in the EU - they were all so prosperous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, nome said: Up until now it's been the manufacturers of expensive toys for rich boys that have done well since 2008... curious to now see Norton going bust and Aston Martin in serious trouble. Aston Martin does seem to be getting a bailout mind you. Unlike misold customers of Wonga. Edited January 31, 2020 by Mikhail Liebenstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: Aston Martin does seem to be getting a bailout mind you. Unlike misold customers of Wonga. Don’t get me going on Aston !! Proper boiler room scam !! Shares only sold to the city and owners and owners club members pushed hard with events, glossy brochures etc.... I thought I was being smart only signing up for the minimum £10k worth £3k Now on that basis you should put me on ignore re any financial advice They are biggish and will be bailed out, and then of course there are my Sirius mineral shares ....? Edited January 31, 2020 by GregBowman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Zombie firms SHOULD go bust- it is good for everyone to cut out wasteful (i.e. non-profitable) enterprises. Anyone who proposes a government bailout of any firm should immediately be hanged. Literally. That should be on the books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone59 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 3 hours ago, Locke said: Zombie firms SHOULD go bust- it is good for everyone to cut out wasteful (i.e. non-profitable) enterprises. Anyone who proposes a government bailout of any firm should immediately be hanged. Literally. That should be on the books. It used to be. It was called debasing the King's currency. Or maybe it still is even. I'm pretty much with you on this. I used to think that a firm in trouble ought to be able to request assistance from HMG (as Flybe did) but which would be for a limited time subject to evaluation by persons who know what they're doing, so not MPs. But since insolvent firms have so often admitted paying unsustainable amounts in bonuses, directors fees and divis I've long given up. Trading while knowingly insolvent has been a criminal offence for as far back as I can recall. You rarely hear of it being enforced so they must all be in the same old boy network. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 24 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said: It used to be. It was called debasing the King's currency. Or maybe it still is even. I'm pretty much with you on this. I used to think that a firm in trouble ought to be able to request assistance from HMG (as Flybe did) but which would be for a limited time subject to evaluation by persons who know what they're doing, so not MPs. But since insolvent firms have so often admitted paying unsustainable amounts in bonuses, directors fees and divis I've long given up. Trading while knowingly insolvent has been a criminal offence for as far back as I can recall. You rarely hear of it being enforced so they must all be in the same old boy network. Not really just hard to prove - most people who have had businesses have had to trade out of tough periods not saying some don't take the P*** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughjass Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Greg Bowman Were you with Woodford as well? Re Norton the Ceo seems to have feathered his nest very well out of all the folks who put their deposits down. Seems to have done well to last this long. Aguy I know bought one using his wifes inheritance didnt use it much but it broke down , not sure if hes got shot of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smash Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 8 hours ago, spyguy said: A large financial/pension con pretending to be the formerly known as the Norton motty bike company goes down, taking peoples pensions with it. Early rumbles https://www.ftadviser.com/pensions/2019/06/21/regulator-intervenes-after-pension-switching-chaos/ https://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/en/media-hub/press-releases/pension-scammers-ordered-to-repay-millions-they-took-from-victims Kaboom: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/30/taken-for-a-ride-how-norton-motorcycles-collapsed-amid-acrimony-and-scandal Maybe one of these 'great british company' booster people can explain why it was a god idea for people with small pensions to put all their money in Norton?? Metrobanks involved too. Lovely. Its a good sell innit..."invest your pension in the revival of the great Norton motorcycle" Not saying there was nefarious intent by the owner of the company from the offset but the sums of money involved that people have lost don't make things look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone59 Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 6 hours ago, GregBowman said: Not really just hard to prove - most people who have had businesses have had to trade out of tough periods not saying some don't take the P*** Have to trade their way out of tough periods - yes absolutely. Hard to prove - I'm not so sure. Long time ago I know, Laker Airways were cash only with BP for aviation fuel for 9 MONTHS before collapse. Oil companies put a lot into credit control because the stakes are so high. They were also using the deposits from package holidays to pay the cash for the kerosene because they had no money. I think that's called conversion. More recently a small firm I worked for valued their stock at over £100k when it was worth barely £30k. If they had supplied true accounts to the bank their overdraft, which funded some of the MD's personal spending, would have been withdrawn and he'd have been toast. I liked him personally and needed the job so I had to play along; I quit when I got the chance. Including temporary, part time and weekend jobs I've probably had 30 employers. Most were being sucked dry by their owners. By that I mean they didn't maintain enough cash in the business to renew things, pay suppliers on time, more interested in divis, big ones. Confusing personal expenditure with business was a particular favourite. I think the will is lacking rather than it bring hard to prove. Who's going to fund the legal action if the firm has closed? The receivers would be gambling on a result which benefits the creditors but which leaves receivers liable if they fail to win. And all they'd get is a bit more in fees if they did win. Take the P****? It seems to me many do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.