captainb Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: Live on Sky News now... Police using tear gas and water cannon in an attempt to disperse crowds, protesting against vaccine cards in Paris. French protesters against Covid-19 health restrictions clash with police in Paris (france24.com) I don't know why they didn't just leave it as you need a vaccine to travel. As people want to go on holiday they would get jabbed and as restrictions are set by another government you have a perfect get out clause. Internal vaccine passports are too much for many people. Interestingly Sydney protests building after they let it slip the oh so effective lockdown might be in place till October if they are lucky. Sadly Thailand and co look like it's let loose for good now. At some point over the next 20 years the true cost of all these lockdowns will be shown. 372billion here no less. At least covid is the only risk that resources should be allocated to.... Edited July 24, 2021 by captainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 4 hours ago, vadst43 said: That's the spirit Here we are soft and cowardly. Got us clapping NHS like trained seals. The memory sickens me. Please do register at your local GP that in the event of you catching a covid that you will be refusing all NHS help. After all it sickens you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 29 minutes ago, captainb said: I don't know why they didn't just leave it as you need a vaccine to travel. As people want to go on holiday they would get jabbed and as restrictions are set by another government you have a perfect get out clause. Some thought they wouldn't inject children with experimental mRNA that wasn't able to get approved under normal circumstances but the MHRA has recently given the go ahead for ages 12 - 15. https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data 29 minutes ago, captainb said: Internal vaccine passports are too much for many people. The eventual goal is a surveillance system that can deal with 1000 whistle blowers / Julian Assanges in one fell swoop while your grandchlidren on Universal Basic Income, stay in their tiny flats eating pot noodles, but it's OK; they will be up to date with their full vaccine schedule, doing their part to protect others, with good social credit scores. 29 minutes ago, captainb said: At some point over the next 20 years the true cost of all these lockdowns will be shown. I don't understand these sort of comments as though it's going to end via some kind of natural process where government stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Some thought they wouldn't inject children with experimental mRNA that wasn't able to get approved under normal circumstances but the MHRA has recently given the go ahead for ages 12 - 15. https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data The eventual goal is a surveillance system that can deal with 1000 whistle blowers / Julian Assanges in one fell swoop while your grandchlidren on Universal Basic Income, stay in their tiny flats eating pot noodles, but it's OK; they will be up to date with their full vaccine schedule, doing their part to protect others, with good social credit scores. I don't understand these sort of comments as though it's going to end via some kind of natural process where government stops. Well to be fair, the UK government has given up on them post vaccine. Which makes sense as all they do (at best) is defer cases, which post vaccine suggests ... So what? Nothing material will change in the next 6 months If you hold its all some global conspiracy then surely with cases at 50k they would have locked down. Easy excuse to do so. Edited July 24, 2021 by captainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 9 hours ago, Riedquat said: Who has said exactly that? Are you trying to lump offering and coercing together and labelling people who rightly take a dim view of the latter as being the same with the former? Nightowl earlier today. He is just one of several posters on here who seem unable to move their knowledge on, instead preferring to continually repeat long since debunked claims. After awhile you have to question their motives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 10 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: I meant pro-government so that is what I said. The government is frequently at odds with scientists, who in turn are not in complete agreement. It is pretty hard to know what you mean if you do not say what you mean. Scientists are never in complete agreement about anything, that's not how science works. However, as the vast majority of scientists across the world support the vaccine rollout its fair to describe posters agreeing with them as pro science. Describing them as pro government is just plain wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted July 24, 2021 Share Posted July 24, 2021 6 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: Live on Sky News now... Police using tear gas and water cannon in an attempt to disperse crowds, protesting against vaccine cards in Paris. French protesters against Covid-19 health restrictions clash with police in Paris (france24.com) That cannot be true. How many times have you been told by our TFH friends that the MSN never covers such things, next you will be telling us that the BBC is covering protests in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: It is pretty hard to know what you mean if you do not say what you mean. Scientists are never in complete agreement about anything, that's not how science works. However, as the vast majority of scientists across the world support the vaccine rollout its fair to describe posters agreeing with them as pro science. Describing them as pro government is just plain wrong. I said pro-government and I'll stick with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 56 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: That cannot be true. How many times have you been told by our TFH friends that the MSN never covers such things, next you will be telling us that the BBC is covering protests in London. It was true, but of course they added that the majority of the French agree with the vaccine passes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Remember when @Mikhail Liebenstein @Grayphil et al said it would be all over by Summer 2020? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 One by one the fall: 'We don't want to go through this again': Anti-vax Arizona family now WANTS COVID-19 shots after beloved 47-year-old grandmother of ten dies from virus The family of a beloved matriarch who died last week from coronavirus has reconsidered their anti-vax stance and is now attempting to get the jab 47-year-old Fernanda Vega, mother of four and grandmother to 10, died on July 13 of complications from the virus Her grieving husband, Ysmael Vega, is now looking to get the entire family vaccinated ‘I don’t want to go through this again’ Vega said of the painful loss of his wife to coronavirus. 'I do not' The outlet reports that Vega is currently still recovering from coronavirus and pneumonia, which he had contracted weeks ago prior to his wife's death A friend of the Vega family created a GoFundMe page, which has already raised over $17,891 out of a $20,000 goal as of Saturday morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: That cannot be true. How many times have you been told by our TFH friends that the MSN never covers such things, next you will be telling us that the BBC is covering protests in London. Still relying on the TFH crutch? In any case to add to what @Bruce Banner said, scientists may not be pro a particular party of government, but many are pro a style of government. Anyway, a quick look on BBC and theres nothing about marches, but they did have an article about plastic bag shortages - No doubt such journalism is only possible due to the unique way they are funded! The BBC may relent on their ignore policy if the Guardian gets jumpy about covid ID cards though, or even if their youngest members of the workforce wake up to it. Edited July 25, 2021 by nightowl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vadst43 Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 9 hours ago, Arpeggio said: But who are they, Trumper? Who are they? We could tell you but we would then have to break wind near you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 To keep up the pressure, they're now talking about extending Covid passes to cover all football matches . Jabs not going as well as they hoped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikhail Liebenstein Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 8 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said: Remember when @Mikhail Liebenstein @Grayphil et al said it would be all over by Summer 2020? I think the pandemic is over, and was over then for all intents and purposes. We should just have taken those deaths on the chin, there are plenty more deaths from other causes. What has extended this is lockdown, masks and vaccines. Look how relatively well India is doing now, they just did most of it the natural way. COVID was never as serious as made out, except for certain demographics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Well well well. Now we know why others are posting disinformation: The YouTubers who blew the whistle on an anti-vax plot A mysterious marketing agency secretly offered to pay social media stars to spread disinformation about Covid-19 vaccines. Their plan failed when the influencers went public about the attempt to recruit them. "It started with an email" says Mirko Drotschmann, a German YouTuber and journalist. Mirko normally ignores offers from brands asking him to advertise their products to his more than 1.5 million subscribers. But the sponsorship offer he received in May this year was unlike any other. An influencer marketing agency called Fazze offered to pay him to promote what it said was leaked information that suggested the death rate among people who had the Pfizer vaccine was almost three times that of the AstraZeneca jab. The information provided wasn't true. It quickly became apparent to Mirko that he was being asked to spread disinformation to undermine public confidence in vaccines in the middle of a pandemic. "I was shocked," says Mirko "then I was curious, what's behind all that?" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-57928647 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightowl Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: To keep up the pressure, they're now talking about extending Covid passes to cover all football matches . Jabs not going as well as they hoped? There's been a graph showing take levels by age group Vs time and it seem most have now levelled off, and the 20-30 is slowing down rapidly. Given the cost of premier League tickets from when I used to go, not that many in 20-30s actually went. Somebody really wants digi-ID cards by some means as premier League stadiums are filled with mainly vaxxed anyway, unlike nightclubs so the Vax % isn't the concern but the excuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 It's getting like the pre-conscription WWI recruiting drive. What comes next? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 13 hours ago, Arpeggio said: Either you are open to the concept that COVID-19 may not be exclusively caused by a virus, having not passed River's postulates, or you are maintaining that it is as virus based on assumption in spite of that, and on tests that do not detect a virus. Koch's postulates and Rivers' 1937 revision of same are obsolete. It's inconceivable that the symptoms of Covid-19 are being caused by anything other than a virus such is the weight of observational evidence re. epidemic transmission. No alternative cause has been proposed in the literature and no reputable scientist, clinical institution, or scientific journal has endorsed one. Nucleic acid based detection methods are so sensitive that they detect small numbers of viruses that may occur in the absence of disease. The use of these new methods have lead to revised versions of Koch’s postulates that are fundamentally sound: both hepatitis C virus and human papillomaviruses were convincingly shown to be causative agents of hepatitis and cervical cancer, respectively, long before methods were developed for propagation of the viruses in cell culture. Here are Koch’s postulates for the 21st century as suggested by Fredricks and Relman: A nucleic acid sequence belonging to a putative pathogen should be present in most cases of an infectious disease. Microbial nucleic acids should be found preferentially in those organs or gross anatomic sites known to be diseased, and not in those organs that lack pathology. Fewer, or no, copy numbers of pathogen-associated nucleic acid sequences should occur in hosts or tissues without disease. With resolution of disease, the copy number of pathogen-associated nucleic acid sequences should decrease or become undetectable. With clinical relapse, the opposite should occur. When sequence detection predates disease, or sequence copy number correlates with severity of disease or pathology, the sequence-disease association is more likely to be a causal relationship. The nature of the microorganism inferred from the available sequence should be consistent with the known biological characteristics of that group of organisms. Tissue-sequence correlates should be sought at the cellular level: efforts should be made to demonstrate specific in situ hybridization of microbial sequence to areas of tissue pathology and to visible microorganisms or to areas where microorganisms are presumed to be located. These sequence-based forms of evidence for microbial causation should be reproducible. Fredericks DN, & Relman DA (1996). Sequence-based identification of microbial pathogens: a reconsideration of Koch’s postulates. Clinical microbiology reviews, 9 (1), 18-33 PMID: 8665474 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainb Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 If they are doing football matches which are erm outside.. they have dropped any pretence of doing it risk based. Suggest next in line is attending uni lectures.. that would be a good age target. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, Arpeggio said: "Covid" could be "spread" through flatulence, say ministers IF that's the case then I am probably responsible for killing thousands! ROFLMAO EDIT UPDATE: Furthermore, If true then makes a nonsense of wearing masks in enclosed spaces such as shops, etc. Edited July 25, 2021 by anonguest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dweller Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 If (due to the high level of infections) a successful breakthrough variant emerges in the UK taking us back to square one how would the markets react? Last year in March 2020 Britain nearly went broke, QE calmed the markets, vaccine calmed the markets, the chance of economic recovery calmed the markets but what would calm the markets now as I assume Gov.Uk can't afford another 12 months of furlough/ stamp duty holidays/ etc and the BOE can't keep printing money. Then of course there is Brexit! So how quickly could this get much worse? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/britain-nearly-went-bust-in-march-says-bank-of-england https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/pound-haunted-by-pandemic-era-pain-as-variants-rattle-traders-1.1632711 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 23 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said: I think the pandemic is over, and was over then for all intents and purposes. We should just have taken those deaths on the chin, there are plenty more deaths from other causes. What has extended this is lockdown, masks and vaccines. Look how relatively well India is doing now, they just did most of it the natural way. COVID was never as serious as made out, except for certain demographics. This is like the eleventh or twelfth time you've said this. You're almost certainly wrong again. The true Indian death toll may be 5 million, 10x the official count. A succession of lockdowns were imposed on the country last year and again this year from March. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonguest Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 (edited) Just now, zugzwang said: This is like the eleventh or twelfth time you've said this. You're almost certainly wrong again. The true Indian death toll may be 5 million, 10x the official count. A succession of lockdowns were imposed on the country last year and again this year from March. So, even IF a correct assumption.....only 0.3-ish percent of the population then. Edited July 25, 2021 by anonguest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonsieurCopperCrutch Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 47 minutes ago, Bruce Banner said: To keep up the pressure, they're now talking about extending Covid passes to cover all football matches . Jabs not going as well as they hoped? Did the Euro 2020's cause a spike in cases or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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