Coronavirus - potential Black Swan?

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

5 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

Boots on streets in Australia. This is how you deal with the anti-mask covid deniers. 
 

Australia sends in the ARMY to enforce it's 'Zero Covid' lockdown: Soldiers will patrol Sydney alongside helicopters with blaring sirens as nation grapples rising infection rates with only 17% of adults vaccinated

Are you looking for military dictatorship?

We were happy to sacrifice a million young British servicemen to defeat Germany on 2 occasions, so why are we desperate to not allow some sacrifice of the old/vulnerable to save wider society? 

Again, and this is a fact, most of the dangerous variants arise from those with compromised immunity. They cause the viral equivalent of antibiotic resistance by   putting some selective pressure on the virus, but not killing it.

They either need to shield 100% or be left to it without further immune (plasma antibodies) or vaccine based medical intervention. That might be a desth sentence, but that is how this ends.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-may-arise-in-people-with-compromised-immune-systems/

Edited July 31, 2021 by Mikhail Liebenstein

[Arpeggio]

1 minute ago, scottbeard said:

5,522 isn’t the total number who died, it’s just the number who died within 28 days of a COVID vaccination in the last 6 months

I didn't say otherwise. I compared it to the 10,324 C19 deaths over a time period twice as long.

If all 5,522 post 28 day jab deaths are C19 (which they aren't), the vaccine makes little difference.

If most of the 5,522 are not C19, they would have happened anyway. As I understand this is how it works from your side? Not like the goalposts and definitions are changing or anything.

[Arpeggio]

36 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Are you looking for military dictatorship?

It would only be for 3 weeks to flatten the curve.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Arpeggio

[MonsieurCopperCrutch]

So it was all about the money after all. 

 

YouTube pranksters dupe anti-vaxxer Piers Corbyn into appearing to accept fake £10,000 bundle of cash to focus his criticism on AstraZeneca's competitors

• Clip appears to show Piers agree to accept 'cash' from 'AstraZeneca shareholder'
• Corbyn, a notorious anti-vaxxer, discusses deal to 'ignore' AZ in his campaigning
• Pranksters suggest Corbyn focuses criticism on Moderna and Pfizer jabs instead 
• In exchange for ignoring AZ jab, pranksters gift Corbyn with fake £10k bundle
• Piers Corbyn claims the video is 'heavily edited' with 'dishonest commentary' 

[anonguest]

57 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

Are you looking for military dictatorship?

We were happy to sacrifice a million young British servicemen to defeat Germany on 2 occasions, so why are we desperate to not allow some sacrifice of the old/vulnerable to save wider society? 

Again, and this is a fact, most of the dangerous variants arise from those with compromised immunity. They cause the viral equivalent of antibiotic resistance by   putting some selective pressure on the virus, but not killing it.

They either need to shield 100% or be left to it without further immune (plasma antibodies) or vaccine based medical intervention. That might be a desth sentence, but that is how this ends.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-may-arise-in-people-with-compromised-immune-systems/

I agree entirely!  Some (most?) peoples complete inability to work things through to potential logical conclusions based on basic human nature and the way the body politic works AND an ever growing ignorance of modern history by, especially, younger age groups is truly horrifying.

History shows that all too often societies can go from normal to insane with incredible ease and terrifying swiftness - and it often starts with over emotional idiocy celebrating things like 'boots on the ground' in response to some issue that, frankly, does not pose an existential threat at all.

Edited July 31, 2021 by anonguest

[Arpeggio]

[captainb]

42 minutes ago, anonguest said:

I agree entirely!  Some (most?) peoples complete inability to work things through to potential logical conclusions based on basic human nature and the way the body politic works AND an ever growing ignorance of modern history by, especially, younger age groups is truly horrifying.

History shows that all too often societies can go from normal to insane with incredible ease and terrifying swiftness - and it often starts with over emotional idiocy celebrating things like 'boots on the ground' in response to some issue that, frankly, does not pose an existential threat at all.

It's not new.

Julius Cesar was dictator just for a crisis.

People still all too stupid to fail to see despite thousands of years of evidence, handing power to people "just for" an event doesn't end with them just giving it after. Merely another crisis appears to justify it continuing.

[scottbeard]

7 minutes ago, captainb said:

People still all too stupid to fail to see despite thousands of years of evidence, handing power to people "just for" an event doesn't end with them just giving it after. Merely another crisis appears to justify it continuing.

Indeed, that's why we are still subject to the Emergency Powers (Defence Act) 1939 that was put in place for World War II.

Oh, except we aren't.  It was repealed in 1959 and the powers expired in 1964.

However, your point does have some validity, in that most people wouldn't consider WWII to have ended in 1964...

[captainb]

23 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

Indeed, that's why we are still subject to the Emergency Powers (Defence Act) 1939 that was put in place for World War II.

Oh, except we aren't.  It was repealed in 1959 and the powers expired in 1964.

However, your point does have some validity, in that most people wouldn't consider WWII to have ended in 1964...

Or when Putin took control of the Russian constitution for a crisis he just handed it all back.. oh wait he didn't.

Or when Thai military did their cou they handed all the power back in the 2019 election, oh wait they didn't..

Or Franco, or Mussolini or... Etc etc

 

Just finding an example when power was handed back doesn't put the risk at nill. The numerous examples of where it wasn't should act as a severe warning not to do it unless the most abolsute worst, extreme, no other option circumstances..

People crying for boots on the ground over sodding covid suggests they have no risk perspective. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely they are control freaks, and wish to ensure everything is "under control" no matter what the cost.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by captainb

[Arpeggio]

'Blood on their hands': UK fury at EU leaders for slating AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine 'out of spite over Brexit' after study finds it has the same risk of blood clots as Pfizer's

 

[captainb]

4 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

'Blood on their hands': UK fury at EU leaders for slating AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine 'out of spite over Brexit' after study finds it has the same risk of blood clots as Pfizer's

 

I don't go for the daily mail Brexit crap.

 

 

However the slamming of the AZ vaccine by Macron based on naff all, then the EUs crappy legal challenge is shameful.

All they have achieved is that for the next pandemic nobody will ever produce a vaccine at cost for the world.

Risk reward basis is horrific, and if you read the latest AZ report the major shareholders are telling them so in no uncertain terms 

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by captainb

[Arpeggio]

25 minutes ago, captainb said:

I don't go for the daily mail Brexit crap.

To me, back then, it was just a bitch fight in a teacup on the greater table of general vaccine bullsh*t, which is why, back then, you won't find any comments from me on it either......so the Pfizer jab is as likely to cause blood clots as AZ.

Sorry for going slightly off topic. The dictatorship thing isn't news to me, I saw it coming since March 2020. I commend you for talking about it and am happy to see you do so.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Arpeggio

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, captainb said:

People crying for boots on the ground over sodding covid suggests they have no risk perspective. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely they are control freaks, and wish to ensure everything is "under control" no matter what the cost.

It's hardly news that people have no risk perception. Or rather they have no risk tolerance (or both) - the idea of anything bad happening is something they can't accept. They frequently fail to tell the difference between accepting sh1t happens with wanting it to happen too, with wanting things to be risky for the sake of it and wanting people to get hurt.

[Chunketh]

1 hour ago, captainb said:

I don't go for the daily mail Brexit crap.

 

 

However the slamming of the AZ vaccine by Macron based on naff all, then the EUs crappy legal challenge is shameful.

All they have achieved is that for the next pandemic nobody will ever produce a vaccine at cost for the world.

Risk reward basis is horrific, and if you read the latest AZ report the major shareholders are telling them so in no uncertain terms 

 

Macron was trying to promote the french vaccine, till they didn’t have one,. Then he started moaning about AZ being restricted.

If I were in charge of AZ I would have told him to take a run and jump and given them nothing. He was playing politics and lost.

Also, the chances of a blood clot are the same as when you take a paracetamol, I don’t see folk getting all worked up about blood clots with paracetamol, but there you go….

Edited July 31, 2021 by Chunketh

[scottbeard]

2 hours ago, captainb said:

People crying for boots on the ground over sodding covid suggests they have no risk perspective. Alternatively, and perhaps more likely they are control freaks, and wish to ensure everything is "under control" no matter what the cost.

Oh I quite agree.

I'm just pointing out that you presented "emergency power doesn't get given back" as if that's some kind of immutable-100%-always-true rule.  And that isn't the case either.

In reality, emergency powers are - sometimes - needed.  However, they should also be used sparingly because they are - sometimes - longer lasting than people would like.

[Confusion of VIs]

4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

I skimmed it and read the quotes attributed to SAGE. Are you saying that the Mail made them up?

Read my post again it's quite clear what I said.

4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

We'll see who was gullible in due course. 

No need to wait. You took at face value a DM clickbait story posted by probably the least credible poster on HPC.

4 hours ago, Bruce Banner said:

Man against nature, who will win? If it's two jabs a year to stay alive I'd say nature.

Edit: My definition of gullible would be anyone who believes a word that comes out of Downing Street.

Not really a helpful definition, even the most egregious propaganda needs an element of truth to be effective.  

[captainb]

48 minutes ago, Chunketh said:

Macron was trying to promote the french vaccine, till they didn’t have one,. Then he started moaning about AZ being restricted.

If I were in charge of AZ I would have told him to take a run and jump and given them nothing. He was playing politics and lost.

Also, the chances of a blood clot are the same as when you take a paracetamol, I don’t see folk getting all worked up about blood clots with paracetamol, but there you go….

All true.

The major issue for me anyway is that every company in the world has learnt from this never to do the same thing as AZ again..always do on a commercial basis, and if some uni academics say "for the good of the world we need this to be not for profit", just tell them where to stick it.

Loser is not UK, Macron, AZ , EU etc etc. But in a lot of ways the developing world, who won't get access to vaccines in the next pandemic, unless they magically can pay commercial rates.

 

[Confusion of VIs]

31 minutes ago, captainb said:

All true.

The major issue for me anyway is that every company in the world has learnt from this never to do the same thing as AZ again..always do on a commercial basis, and if some uni academics say "for the good of the world we need this to be not for profit", just tell them where to stick it.

Loser is not UK, Macron, AZ , EU etc etc. But in a lot of ways the developing world, who won't get access to vaccines in the next pandemic, unless they magically can pay commercial rates.

 

Being slightly cynical AZ's not for profit sales were/are a loss leader to establish them as a major vaccine supplier. The non profit price includes the costs incurred in scaling up their production facilities and was limited to the first rounds of vaccines.

The developing world does not generally pay anything like the prices charged to the rich nations. E.g. Pfizer claims it is selling to many nations at or even below cost. 

[Bruce Banner]

2 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said:

Read my post again it's quite clear what I said.

No need to wait. You took at face value a DM clickbait story posted by probably the least credible poster on HPC.

Not really a helpful definition, even the most egregious propaganda needs an element of truth to be effective.  

I am entirely happy with what I said earlier and find the DM article credible, particularly as it says what I already suspected, and regardless of who originally posted the link.

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/235722-coronavirus-potential-black-swan/&do=findComment&comment=1103765271

SAGE: Next Covid variant could kill one in three people | Daily Mail Online

Regarding Downing Street, whenever an announcement is made (baby), the first thing that crosses my mind is "Why have they released that now? What are they trying to bury?".

 

[The Spaniard]

8 hours ago, MonsieurCopperCrutch said:

YouTube pranksters dupe anti-vaxxer Piers Corbyn into appearing to accept fake £10,000 bundle of cash to focus his criticism on AstraZeneca's competitors

• Clip appears to show Piers agree to accept 'cash' from 'AstraZeneca shareholder'
• Corbyn, a notorious anti-vaxxer, discusses deal to 'ignore' AZ in his campaigning
• Pranksters suggest Corbyn focuses criticism on Moderna and Pfizer jabs instead 
• In exchange for ignoring AZ jab, pranksters gift Corbyn with fake £10k bundle
• Piers Corbyn claims the video is 'heavily edited' with 'dishonest commentary' 

In accordance with the right to reply:

https://www.bitchute.com/video/4Co2PoV2tjxM/

 

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

So back to my point about vaccines driving vaccine resistance. In this case however, the polio vaccine which uses a weakened live virus has itself mutated. Hence the term vaccine-derived poliovirus.

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2020/nov/15/the-defeat-of-polio-proved-that-immunisation-saved-lives-but-theres-a-sting-to-the-tale

Polio mutates very slowly, SARS-CoV-2 is much more nimble, though the mechanisms  in these cases differ superficially (i.e in one the vaccine viral agent mutates and the other the other the target virus mutates), the driving force of evolution is the same.

Again this has happened due to weak inmu e systems.

 

[vadst43]

Unusual in that it's on YT and not pulled. The comments mostly anti Covaxx

 

[anonguest]

3 minutes ago, vadst43 said:

Unusual in that it's on YT and not pulled. The comments mostly anti Covaxx

 

I try to give almost everyone benefit of the doubt and will often at least have a quick look at what people post. Sorry but stopped watching after 10 seconds - what is about the Yanks that makes them blub over just about anything?  And it's not just the blubbing but how they do it that makes you cringe.  The men actually tend to be the worst to watch. Sadly it is one U.S export we have acquired here too and become increasingly infected by.

[vadst43]

It eas worth continuing, the 2nd mother had allowed her 12 yr old daughter to end up in a wheelchair with no remedy in sight.

[hotblack42]

1 hour ago, vadst43 said:

Unusual in that it's on YT and not pulled. The comments mostly anti Covaxx

 

And here are the fatality results so far:

Covid-19: Millions 

Vaccines: Thousands

Nothing to see here.