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Serious design flaws in many housing estates, report claims


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3 minutes ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:

I've always been of the view that you build the houses first and then when you know the social mix that ultimately buys them, then the market will come in with facilities such as schools, doctors, shopping facilities, bus routes etc. Ok children's playground are harder but could still be built after the event. Is this wrong?

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They made the choice to buy that particular house, it must have been obvious what amenities were available in that particular area, don't know why they are publicly complaining.

They seem to want it both ways. One of the main unspoken reasons(at least before HTB)  for people buying houses on new suburban developments, was to avoid living in existing communities they did not like, whether that be areas of high social housing, ethnic groups etc. The price and general size of the houses would predetermine the demographic of people who would live there, or more bluntly, people like them.  If people want to do that, its there business. However, accept the sacrifice the place might be a bit soulless and lacking in local shops, public transport,   parks and playgrounds. 

It seems they expect private developers to somehow magically create a civic realm without putting in any effort themselves. 

 

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4 minutes ago, nothernsoul said:

.

It seems they expect private developers to somehow magically create a civic realm without putting in any effort themselves. 

 

You said it so much better then I.

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1 hour ago, Si1 said:

I've always been of the view that you build the houses first and then when you know the social mix that ultimately buys them, then the market will come in with facilities such as schools, doctors, shopping facilities, bus routes etc. Ok children's playground are harder but could still be built after the event. Is this wrong?

Welll ... not at the densities estates are built. No space.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, nothernsoul said:

They made the choice to buy that particular house, it must have been obvious what amenities were available in that particular area, don't know why they are publicly complaining.

They seem to want it both ways. One of the main unspoken reasons(at least before HTB)  for people buying houses on new suburban developments, was to avoid living in existing communities they did not like, whether that be areas of high social housing, ethnic groups etc. The price and general size of the houses would predetermine the demographic of people who would live there, or more bluntly, people like them.  If people want to do that, its there business. However, accept the sacrifice the place might be a bit soulless and lacking in local shops, public transport,   parks and playgrounds. 

It seems they expect private developers to somehow magically create a civic realm without putting in any effort themselves. 

 

The people mentioned are mid 20s. One lot in army. Other social housing.

Neither will have huge commitments on their time - army is virtually parttime.

A look on the map shows there are many facilities within a very short distance. They could walk to maccyd or kfc.

 

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1 hour ago, spyguy said:

Welll ... not at the densities estates are built. No space.

 

 

A supermarket or surgery or even school can be on the outside of one of those. But decent local pubs, playgrounds, corner shops, local libraries etc, yeah you'd expect them to be integrated locally. Bracknell.

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It may be different in England but in Scotland most new estates i can think of seem fairly well-served. Most have a fenced football/basketball MUGA area and small park in a central area, usually done in a 'town square' type set up. I've also seen three developments (one in Aberdeen two outside Edinburgh) where a block of flats has been built with either a co-op or a sainsbury's local in the ground floor.  

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Not the only issue...

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/persimmon-homes-buyers-see-over-3305185

"

Neighbours who bought on leasehold terms along Pintail Way say they were never fully informed by Persimmon or its appointed conveyancer about the full implications of not owning their properties fully outright.

Nor that a major highway - the congestion-cutting £49million Forder Valley Link Road - would run literally right outside their front door.

Persimmon officials insist customers were made aware ahead of sale about the proposed 1km route stretching to William Prance Road.

 

One family who splashed out £259,000 with assistance from Help to Buy on a four-bed town house in 2016 have been told by valuers the price has already depreciated by more than £50,000 because of the expected traffic volume and noise - coupled with the fact it's leasehold."

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12 minutes ago, HardBrexitNow said:

Not the only issue...

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/persimmon-homes-buyers-see-over-3305185

"

Neighbours who bought on leasehold terms along Pintail Way say they were never fully informed by Persimmon or its appointed conveyancer about the full implications of not owning their properties fully outright.

Nor that a major highway - the congestion-cutting £49million Forder Valley Link Road - would run literally right outside their front door.

Persimmon officials insist customers were made aware ahead of sale about the proposed 1km route stretching to William Prance Road.

 

One family who splashed out £259,000 with assistance from Help to Buy on a four-bed town house in 2016 have been told by valuers the price has already depreciated by more than £50,000 because of the expected traffic volume and noise - coupled with the fact it's leasehold."

Is the issue that they're fecking stupid?

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6 hours ago, Si1 said:

I've always been of the view that you build the houses first and then when you know the social mix that ultimately buys them, then the market will come in with facilities such as schools, doctors, shopping facilities, bus routes etc. Ok children's playground are harder but could still be built after the event. Is this wrong?

That kind of organic growth probably worked fine before WW2 when towns were allowed to expand one street at a time so there was time for real-time adaptation as it was realised 'oh we should probably put a park about here' etc, but now that it's the Persimmons of the world plonking thousands of packed-in houses in one go it needs a bit more forward planning.

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14 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

That kind of organic growth probably worked fine before WW2 when towns were allowed to expand one street at a time so there was time for real-time adaptation as it was realised 'oh we should probably put a park about here' etc, but now that it's the Persimmons of the world plonking thousands of packed-in houses in one go it needs a bit more forward planning.

... Even if there are just strategic spare spaces with advanced general planning permission for something useful other than houses...

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49 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

That kind of organic growth probably worked fine before WW2 when towns were allowed to expand one street at a time so there was time for real-time adaptation as it was realised 'oh we should probably put a park about here' etc, but now that it's the Persimmons of the world plonking thousands of packed-in houses in one go it needs a bit more forward planning.

I agree with this.  Post WW2 the Town and Country planning act...you know the rest.

Another victory for the government, who (Seem to, allegedly, some might say) actively hate us. 

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44 minutes ago, chronyx said:

I agree with this.  Post WW2 the Town and Country planning act...you know the rest.

Another victory for the government, who (Seem to, allegedly, some might say) actively hate us. 

Or as a comedian once put it "so you're telling me that we managed to build Buxton, Bath, Chester without the 1947 act and with it we came up with Stevenage, Crawley, Cumbernauld and Basildon?"

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3 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said:

Or as a comedian once put it "so you're telling me that we managed to build Buxton, Bath, Chester without the 1947 act and with it we came up with Stevenage, Crawley, Cumbernauld and Basildon?"

OK but APART from that little slip-up....?

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2 hours ago, Oki said:

Why on earth should a house builder be responsible for providing these things? 

The builder of a single home should not be responsible for providing civic amenities.

Conversely, the builders of entire estates - new sites on the scale of traditional villages... where they land-bank to lock out competition... then, yes... I think it is reasonbable to expect provision to be made for the necessary local facilities... Insisting upon this sort of thing is what I understand to be what legitimizes planning restrictions.

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How's about some new villages or towns? 

There's a town near me that's basically an out of town shopping centre that's attached to a small village. 

It's literally quicker and safer to get from each store by driving than walking, sometimes having to walk across the equivalent of two dual carriageways. It just seems like such an incredible wasted opportunity and waste of space. And imagine the civic pride people must feel in their 'out of town' shopping centre. 

They have however surrounded this shopping centre with bike paths and plenty of pedestrianisation. It just seems like complete madness

Edited by spacedin
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13 hours ago, Saving For a Space Ship said:
Quote

Last year, the housebuilder completed 15,855 homes and made an annual profit of £1.09bn – the biggest ever reported by a UK housebuilder.

That equates to taking a profit of £68,748 on each house sold.

No wonder there is nothing left over for amenities or even space to site them.

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