Iran

[Odakyu-sen]

22 hours ago, Pebbles said:

So Iran admitts it's guilt in shooting down the aircraft after maintaining it was impossible for days, and suddenly the black box they had accessed the data from needs to go to France for examination. Does anyone really trust or think Iran can be dealt with transparently? Still bet the American haters here will have another tin foil hat theory to explain it.

The Iranian missle crew (based near Tehran Airport) shoots down a departing airliner.
I find this incredible.
– The aircraft is vacating (outward bound)
– No one seems to have warned the airport of the state of heightened alert

I believe that the missile crew are the “hardworking but stupid” type of men.

“I distinguish four types. There are clever, hardworking, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and hardworking; their place is the General Staff. The next ones are stupid and lazy; they make up 90 percent of every army and are suited to routine duties. Anyone who is both clever and lazy is qualified for the highest leadership duties, because he possesses the mental clarity and strength of nerve necessary for difficult decisions. One must beware of anyone who is both stupid and hardworking; he must not be entrusted with any responsibility because he will always only cause damage.” –Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord

[Innkeeper]

The modern world (ie the industrialised connected world) needs a global policeman.  It used to be us and after a changeover between WW1 and WW2 it became the Americans.  Obama rowed back on the world police role and the N Koreans, Russians, and various other nations started flexing their muscles to fill the voids. 

We may not like it but we need the Americans to do this policing job.

Or eventually it will end up being China.

If you don’t think the world needs a policeman then it will also end up being China.

[GregBowman]

6 minutes ago, Innkeeper said:

The modern world (ie the industrialised connected world) needs a global policeman.  It used to be us and after a changeover between WW1 and WW2 it became the Americans.  Obama rowed back on the world police role and the N Koreans, Russians, and various other nations started flexing their muscles to fill the voids. 

We may not like it but we need the Americans to do this policing job.

Or eventually it will end up being China.

If you don’t think the world needs a policeman then it will also end up being China.

Agree which is why a bit of of An old fashioned the US having an accommodation with Russia is useful ( which Trump is good at)

Russia has a lot to lose with a rampant China and does a lot more than people think keeping them contained on its Eastern border 

The Baltic states et al need to pipe down a bit as well. They have their freedom but keep poking the bear. In an EU context they seem to want to goad the Russians and drag everyone else in. What really irritates me and I am of Lithuanian blood is despite us having RAF squadrons on their soil - their political leadership slag us off in the EU.
 

[mallish]

On 1/10/2020 at 5:26 PM, msi said:

Maybe US special forces ambushed an Iranian battery and fired the missiles as a type of false flag.  Win - Win for the US, Iran admits the blame, or gets shunned trying to pin it on the US.  The US are cold blooded enough and they have special forces all over the ground there

LOL ANOTHER CONSPIRACY THEORY NUTTER 

4 hours ago, Oliver Sutton said:

And you're cheering for an establishment that executes gays and imprisons and tortures women for not dressing in the approved manner.

Shows how much Trump has fücked with the tiny brains of libtards.

Thinking coherently is obviously too much for you.

Go back to your pond.

Mate- take no notice.  Some things are just best ignored.   

[zugzwang]

3 hours ago, Innkeeper said:

The modern world (ie the industrialised connected world) needs a global policeman.  It used to be us and after a changeover between WW1 and WW2 it became the Americans.  Obama rowed back on the world police role and the N Koreans, Russians, and various other nations started flexing their muscles to fill the voids. 

We may not like it but we need the Americans to do this policing job.

Or eventually it will end up being China.

If you don’t think the world needs a policeman then it will also end up being China.

What changeover? You mean after the British Empire collapsed into ash and ruin and Britain no longer had the economic wherewithal to command the high seas?

Marmalade Face was elected on a promise to withdraw US troops from the Middle East and bring an end to 'Obama's stupid, endless wars.'

"We went to war [in Iraq] on a false, now disproven premise."

China will dominate civil and military aerospace worldwide within a decade. Commercial aviation too. The UK, meanwhile, is facing the prospect of a sovereign debt default and national bankruptcy.

How times change.

[zugzwang]

6 hours ago, Oliver Sutton said:

And you're cheering for an establishment that executes gays and imprisons and tortures women for not dressing in the approved manner.

Shows how much Trump has fücked with the tiny brains of libtards.

Thinking coherently is obviously too much for you.

Go back to your pond.

.

I'm defending the right of Iranians not to be exterminated from the edge of space on a whim by the US corporate-executive, the unintended consequence of which has been the needless death of a hundred plus innocent by-standers.

What's incoherent about that?

[Drat]

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

I'm defending the right of Iranians not to be exterminated from the edge of space on a whim by the US corporate-executive, the unintended consequence of which has been the needless death of a hundred plus innocent by-standers.

What's incoherent about that?

Everyone views the world through a distortion field to bring it closer to their point of view, but in this case the distortion you have applied is ludicrous. I am sure at the heart of it you have a valid point of view, but really, some of the things you are saying..

[Riedquat]

3 hours ago, zugzwang said:

I'm defending the right of Iranians not to be exterminated from the edge of space on a whim by the US corporate-executive, the unintended consequence of which has been the needless death of a hundred plus innocent by-standers.

What's incoherent about that?

How about the right of Iranians not to be exterminated by their own trigger-happy security forces?

[zugzwang]

5 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

How about the right of Iranians not to be exterminated by their own trigger-happy security forces?

And you believe this will be accomplished by the murder of Qassem Suleimani? How exactly?

And if not, who should the Americans murder next?

 

[Innkeeper]

5 hours ago, zugzwang said:

What changeover? You mean after the British Empire collapsed into ash and ruin and Britain no longer had the economic wherewithal to command the high seas?

Yes you are correct - that changeover!!!! 

5 hours ago, zugzwang said:

Marmalade Face was elected on a promise to withdraw US troops from the Middle East and bring an end to 'Obama's stupid, endless wars.'

"We went to war [in Iraq] on a false, now disproven premise."

Bush started the Iraq war - Obama ended it......

[msi]

6 hours ago, mallish said:

LOL ANOTHER CONSPIRACY THEORY NUTTER 

 

Like I said, look up US -Iranian history. 

[Huggy]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

How about the right of Iranians not to be exterminated by their own trigger-happy security forces?

No rights at all.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-protests-specialreport/special-report-irans-leader-ordered-crackdown-on-unrest-do-whatever-it-takes-to-end-it-idUSKBN1YR0QR

Thats 1,500 of their own citizens FFS. I think Trump is a bit of a dick in general but we're talking Bin Laden and Al Baghdadi levels of murders here.

[Riedquat]

3 hours ago, zugzwang said:

And you believe this will be accomplished by the murder of Qassem Suleimani? How exactly?

A bit of a non-sequitor, no?

[zugzwang]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

A bit of a non-sequitor, no?

What was the cold-blooded murder of Qassem Suleimani intended to achieve if not regime change?

[zugzwang]

4 hours ago, Innkeeper said:

Yes you are correct - that changeover!!!! 

Bush started the Iraq war - Obama ended it......

Except for the thousands of US troops still in Iraq...

[Pebbles]

Iran does enough cold blooded murder of its own citizens. Look at the gunmen tonight firing on protesters. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7879547/Security-forces-open-fire-anti-government-demonstrators-streets-Tehran.html and even their prize Olympic athlete seems to want nothing to do with the country.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51084620 Iran is a threat to it's citizens and the wider world.

[zugzwang]

4 minutes ago, Pebbles said:

Iran does enough cold blooded murder of its own citizens. Look at the gunmen tonight firing on protesters. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7879547/Security-forces-open-fire-anti-government-demonstrators-streets-Tehran.html and even their prize Olympic athlete seems to want nothing to do with the country.  https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51084620 Iran is a threat to it's citizens and the wider world.

So what do you suggest we do about it? Go to war? That option would at least have a degree of moral legitimacy.

 

[Riedquat]

1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

What was the cold-blooded murder of Qassem Suleimani intended to achieve if not regime change?

Again, not a response to what I was saying.

[MARTINX9]

4 hours ago, Huggy said:

No rights at all.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-iran-protests-specialreport/special-report-irans-leader-ordered-crackdown-on-unrest-do-whatever-it-takes-to-end-it-idUSKBN1YR0QR

Thats 1,500 of their own citizens FFS. I think Trump is a bit of a dick in general but we're talking Bin Laden and Al Baghdadi levels of murders here.

They quite happily execute men just for being gay or for simply deciding to change their religion (if its from Islam) - so why would they stress over rioting students?

[tyres]

On 12/01/2020 at 21:51, zugzwang said:

What was the cold-blooded murder of Qassem Suleimani intended to achieve if not regime change?

US is not interested in regime change. Personally I think they got rid of the Shah and allowed khomeini to take over, as the Shah refused to take Iran to war with Iraq. He said he would buy the weapons from the US, but would not take his people to war....

Several months after the Shah was kicked out; Iraq invaded Iran, and that has been great business for the US ever since.

Suleimani and the Saudis were actually going to discuss ways to ease tension between the two countries. This doesn't sell weapons, so no profits  for the US, specially if the talks were also going to cover Americas Petrodollar Hegemony...

[Big Orange]

On 12/01/2020 at 12:02, zugzwang said:

 

Marmalade Face was elected on a promise to withdraw US troops from the Middle East and bring an end to 'Obama's stupid, endless wars.'

"We went to war [in Iraq] on a false, now disproven premise."

China will dominate civil and military aerospace worldwide within a decade. Commercial aviation too. The UK, meanwhile, is facing the prospect of a sovereign debt default and national bankruptcy.

How times change.

Easier said than done when America's got deep reserves of economic strength and massive strategic depth (and projection) stemming from its much more favourable geography in comparison to China's:

But then again it looked like America's geography ironically rendered it very a stagnant and decadent superpower, and will not/is not immune to internal decline and will likely come a cropper with the climate change (ie. its river systems that brought it prosperity becomes a fatal liability once they burst their banks and sink many of their main population/industrial zones, etc).

And we've seen another continent spanning super state just end not so long ago:

 

[zugzwang]

 

[Big Orange]

^They would find it VERY hard to sell to Western airlines, but they must've seen an opening in the airlines if developing countries that got stung and become averse to the infamous MAX craft (even if Boeing fixes it and pilots are properly trained, airliners and passengers are going to be still irrationally wary of the MAX).

[winkie]

13 hours ago, Big Orange said:

^They would find it VERY hard to sell to Western airlines, but they must've seen an opening in the airlines if developing countries that got stung and become averse to the infamous MAX craft (even if Boeing fixes it and pilots are properly trained, airliners and passengers are going to be still irrationally wary of the MAX).

Will they not just change the name?......climbing up the steps to board a plane nobody would really want to see the word MAX written across the fuselage.