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Government to press ahead with abolishing section 21


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Good news. I’ve been predicting for a while that tenants rights will be improving from now on. I think there’s very little electoral advantage for any party now to be seen to be helping BTL landlords. Now that labour have proposed rent controls, the Tories have free reign to bump up taxes and improve tenants rights on the basis that they’re not as bad for LLs as Labour. So there are few BTL votes to lose to Labour and only young votes to gain from them. 
 

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1 hour ago, Bear Goggles said:

Good news. I’ve been predicting for a while that tenants rights will be improving from now on. I think there’s very little electoral advantage for any party now to be seen to be helping BTL landlords. Now that labour have proposed rent controls, the Tories have free reign to bump up taxes and improve tenants rights on the basis that they’re not as bad for LLs as Labour. So there are few BTL votes to lose to Labour and only young votes to gain from them. 
 

Except you have to ask how many turkeys are going to vote for Christmas. As around 60% of Tory MPs have property they let and around 30% of Labour MPs do as well I suspect there will be some 'useful' clauses that get amended so that the changes are just window dressing.

Its not just BTL landlords but (anti)social housing landlords that need regulating. A 70 year old friend of mine in our local sheltered accommodation flats had no heating for over the last fortnight. They have done away with the on-site wardens and have lackey who visits about 2 hours a week. A young mum with three children was put into a house in the village by the local housing "association/parasite". The carpets upstairs had been removed - probably because they needed replacing. However the carpet grips had been left with their spikes sticking up on every stair and round every bedroom. When my friend (above) and a young lad and I went to put in a wardrobe for her the first thing we did was rip up all the grips. Imagine a toddler falling onto that lot, or crawling over them. What kind of A***hole would think that was an acceptable state to leave a house in?

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29 minutes ago, Travisher said:

 As around 60% of Tory MPs have property they let and around 30% of Labour MPs do as well 

Not disputing the essence of what you're saying, but those numbers were from a previous Parliament - I wonder how those numbers look now, now that there's a more Brexit friendly bunch of MPs.

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3 minutes ago, VancouverGuy said:

Not disputing the essence of what you're saying, but those numbers were from a previous Parliament - I wonder how those numbers look now, now that there's a more Brexit friendly bunch of MPs.

I never thought of that. True. Leveraged properdie investors tend not to want to rock the economic boat. Look at spreadsheet Phil.

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On 21/12/2019 at 16:07, Travisher said:

Except you have to ask how many turkeys are going to vote for Christmas. As around 60% of Tory MPs have property they let and around 30% of Labour MPs do as well I suspect there will be some 'useful' clauses that get amended so that the changes are just window dressing.


It's clear from the article that landlord rights will be strengthened by reforming current legislation, I expect we'll see the process at which landlords can evict in a Section 8 type scenario significantly sped up. Thus rich Tory landlords have little to worry about. 

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On 21/12/2019 at 16:07, Travisher said:

Except you have to ask how many turkeys are going to vote for Christmas. As around 60% of Tory MPs have property they let and around 30% of Labour MPs do as well I suspect there will be some 'useful' clauses that get amended so that the changes are just window dressing.

Its not just BTL landlords but (anti)social housing landlords that need regulating. A 70 year old friend of mine in our local sheltered accommodation flats had no heating for over the last fortnight. They have done away with the on-site wardens and have lackey who visits about 2 hours a week. A young mum with three children was put into a house in the village by the local housing "association/parasite". The carpets upstairs had been removed - probably because they needed replacing. However the carpet grips had been left with their spikes sticking up on every stair and round every bedroom. When my friend (above) and a young lad and I went to put in a wardrobe for her the first thing we did was rip up all the grips. Imagine a toddler falling onto that lot, or crawling over them. What kind of A***hole would think that was an acceptable state to leave a house in?

Discounting MP having seconds homes london/constituency, its Labour MPs and Laboury types who are the most keen on propordee.

 

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Despite what people think, S21 is not about reducing LL rights and increasing tenant's.

Sure, they are an issue.

But the big change is that this will kill LL access to mortgages.

BTL mortgages only came out after idiot banks n BS were convinced that AST allowed the bank to repo a house in short, straight forward legal process.

Putting a long, indeterminate legal process and outcome in front of a bank getting its money back means the banks will be shutting down their BTL books.

LL mortgages will now have to move to specialist, non bank leaders wholl need to raise the money as bonds rather than draw down from BoE.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Despite what people think, S21 is not about reducing LL rights and increasing tenant's.

Sure, they are an issue.

But the big change is that this will kill LL access to mortgages.

BTL mortgages only came out after idiot banks n BS were convinced that AST allowed the bank to repo a house in short, straight forward legal process.

Putting a long, indeterminate legal process and outcome in front of a bank getting its money back means the banks will be shutting down their BTL books.

LL mortgages will now have to move to specialist, non bank leaders wholl need to raise the money as bonds rather than draw down from BoE.

 

 

 

They could easily structure the law to give the lender special rights to issue 30 days notice in the event of a repo.

I think the intention is to improve tenants’ rights, how they deal with the inevitable knock on effects remains to be seen, but yes, it’s definitely going to have a massive effect on BTL mortgages if the tenant can’t easily be evicted during a repo. 

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3 minutes ago, Bear Goggles said:

They could easily structure the law to give the lender special rights to issue 30 days notice in the event of a repo.

I think the intention is to improve tenants’ rights, how they deal with the inevitable knock on effects remains to be seen, but yes, it’s definitely going to have a massive effect on BTL mortgages if the tenant can’t easily be evicted during a repo. 

Nope.

Bank has to wait til the eviction process to trundke its way thru the court, however long that takes.

Its a positive outcome for society. And a kick in the balls for LL.

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3 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Nope.

Bank has to wait til the eviction process to trundke its way thru the court, however long that takes.

Its a positive outcome for society. And a kick in the balls for LL.

Bummer. Looks like small time BTL is screwed then. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of people. 

Its funny how there’s so little fuss about this from the “accidental LL” crew. “We’ll just rent it out for a bit” is blown out of the water too. 

I also wonder what happens if you are working abroad for a year or two and want to rent your house out while you’re away.  Maybe this will somehow be covered in their “legitimate reasons to regain possession” caveats. I guess we’ll have to wait and see. 

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Despite what people think, S21 is not about reducing LL rights and increasing tenant's.

Sure, they are an issue.

But the big change is that this will kill LL access to mortgages.

BTL mortgages only came out after idiot banks n BS were convinced that AST allowed the bank to repo a house in short, straight forward legal process.

Putting a long, indeterminate legal process and outcome in front of a bank getting its money back means the banks will be shutting down their BTL books.

LL mortgages will now have to move to specialist, non bank leaders wholl need to raise the money as bonds rather than draw down from BoE.

 

Repossessing a house will still  be straight forward, even if it takes longer. getting rid of S21 wont affect BTL lenders in any significant way. Repossessions are very low in any case.

 

On 21/12/2019 at 16:36, VancouverGuy said:

Not disputing the essence of what you're saying, but those numbers were from a previous Parliament - I wonder how those numbers look now, now that there's a more Brexit friendly bunch of MPs.

Funny logic here. More Tory MP's = more BTL landlords as MP's.

The day a Tory government become anti-Property owners will be a cold day in hell.

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38 minutes ago, Peter Hun said:

Funny logic here. More Tory MP's = more BTL landlords as MP's.

We don't know if it is funny logic until we know the number of MPs who are BTLers by Party.

It's quite possible Labour outdo Tories on this score.  Tories are often in business or have inherited wealth, so no need to get down and dirty being a LL.  Whereas a Labour MP, fresh into London from grimoopnorth, sees the opportunities.

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1 hour ago, Peter Hun said:

Repossessing a house will still  be straight forward, even if it takes longer. getting rid of S21 wont affect BTL lenders in any significant way. Repossessions are very low in any case.

 

Funny logic here. More Tory MP's = more BTL landlords as MP's.

The day a Tory government become anti-Property owners will be a cold day in hell.

Btl repo are not low, just starting to ramp up.

With s21 repos could be sorted within 6 months.

With it - who knows. 12 months, 24, 36.....

This *is* a massive problem for banks who risk having impaired loans on their books, ar great expense.

 

 

 

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I can't help but feel cynical about this to be honest. They'll probably change things to make it easier for the landlord to evict in all other circumstances aside from "no fault", so there'll still be insecurity of tenure.  Section 8 already includes provision for landlord moving back in, refurbishment, breach of tenancy agreement, damage to furnishings etc. If it's streamlined then you can imagine the scenario if a landlord wants to get rid of someone- landlord inspects property, finds some breach of tenancy eg a dog hair from friends' dog that visited,  "no pets" clause, section 8 notice.

3 hours ago, Bear Goggles said:

 

I also wonder what happens if you are working abroad for a year or two and want to rent your house out while you’re away.  Maybe this will somehow be covered in their “legitimate reasons to regain possession” caveats. I guess we’ll have to wait and see. 

Section 8 includes "landlord taking property as their own home" so I can't see this being a problem

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2 minutes ago, Dave Beans said:

Scotland removed their version of s21 two years ago - has their been an increase in repossessions there?  Has there been a rise in rental prices / availability / homelessness?

Rental yield in Scotland is better than England.

BUT Scotland government has constructed council homes as well.

So rents won't go up much here but yield is better than England.

SNP has definitely done good job in accumulating state silver by constructing council homes.

This will help future governments as well.

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17 hours ago, Dave Beans said:

Scotland removed their version of s21 two years ago - has their been an increase in repossessions there?  Has there been a rise in rental prices / availability / homelessness?

Was yhere much of the high leversged io btlery in Scotland?

Genuine question, as it has different laws to England.

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