Wealthy US donors gave millions to rightwing UK groups

[PeanutButter]

Eleven wealthy American donors who have given a total of more than $3.7m (£2.86m) to rightwing UK groups in the past five years have been identified, raising questions about the influence of foreign funding on British politics.

The donations have been given to four British thinktanks that have been vocal in the debate about Brexit and the shape of the UK’s future trade with the EU, and an organisation that claims to be an independent grassroots campaign representing ordinary British taxpayers.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/29/wealthy-us-donors-gave-millions-to-rightwing-uk-groups

 

So once again we find evidence of foreign interference in our domestic affairs. The population and our government is endlessly manipulated against the best interests of its own people.

May as well call ourselves the next American state at this rate. 

[Locke]

I honestly don't see what the problem is.

Firstly, the EU spends far more than that influencing elections.

Secondly, if democracy in this country is so vulnerable to outside money, that is an argument against democracy generally, rather than a specific result you didn't like.

 

It doesn't matter how much money someone would offer me to commit murder; I wouldn't do it. If you would, that is a fundamental problem with you.

Edited November 29, 2019 by Locke

[Fishfinger]

I wonder how much foreign money funds left wing groups?

I wonder how much foreign money funds Muslim extremist groups?

How many groups are funded by wealthy foreign individuals such as George Soros?

I wonder how many football clubs are funded by foreign money?

I wonder how much money the government gets from the EU?

So once again we find evidence of foreign interference in our domestic affairs. The population and our government is endlessly manipulated against the best interest of its own people.??

Can anyone else think of any other activities that are funded by foreign wealth?

 

 

 

[PeanutButter]

10 minutes ago, Locke said:

I honestly don't see what the problem is.

Firstly, the EU spends far ore than that influencing elections.

Link please.

10 minutes ago, Locke said:

Secondly, if democracy in this country is so vulnerable to outside money, that is an argument against democracy generally, rather than a specific result you didn't like.

Result I don’t like? I honestly DGAF about Brexit. It’s stupid but I have enough wealth and income not to worry about it at all. I can afford private healthcare. Plus I’m dual citizen so first sign of deterioration I can flee easily.

I DO have a problem with wealthy yanks pulling strings WITHOUT transparency. 

But clearly the modern British mentality involves rolling over for a belly rub whenever anyone with money clicks their fingers. It’s pathetic, and the fact people aren’t even angry about it shows how low our standards have sunk.

Brexit sovereignty indeed. A nation of deluded worms.

[Locke]

47 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

the modern British mentality involves rolling over for a belly rub whenever anyone with money clicks their fingers.

Looks like you missed the point.

[mallish]

2 hours ago, Locke said:

I honestly don't see what the problem is.

Firstly, the EU spends far more than that influencing elections.

Secondly, if democracy in this country is so vulnerable to outside money, that is an argument against democracy generally, rather than a specific result you didn't like.

 

It doesn't matter how much money someone would offer me to commit murder; I wouldn't do it. If you would, that is a fundamental problem with you

Could not agree more - who cares 

 

 

[Fromage Frais]

Wow under 3 million £

That wont even get you a decent house in London.

So this money is paid to think tanks?  I was getting excited as i thought it was paid into peoples bank accounts directly or in brown envelopes at the back of Lidl.

So let us say you have a company or a set of beliefs and you want to persuade other people obviously you are going to set up think tanks and foundations.

It's another our shit does not stink left wing hypocrisy.

For example a billionaire who drills for oil donates a million to low regulation think tank to try and influence.... BADDY

A billionaire invested in electric car producers and wind farms donates a million to environmental think tank .... GOODY

Both influenced but only bang on about the evil first one.

For example a foreign billionaire has a organisation called Open Society Foundations (OSF) fair play to him he hates brexit and that on its own website states that it has donated over £3 million alone on "working to support debate and engagement on the case for the Uk staying in the European Union"

Some left ones...

Fabian Society

https://fabians.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Financial-Transparency-2017-18.pdf

Open Society Foundations (OSF),

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/newsroom/open-society-foundations-support-campaign-brexit
 

"Update (August 23, 2019): The Open Society Foundations have provided funding to four different groups in Britain working to support debate and engagement on the case for the UK staying in the European Union; this funding totals approximately £3,021,689 over four years: Best for Britain: £400,000 (2017), £1,087,000 (2018), £1,213,689 (2019); European Movement: £100,000 (2017), £100,000 (2018); Scientists for EU: £35,000 (2017); Bright Blue: £86,000 (2016). "
 

https://www.ippr.org/

https://www.ippr.org/about/how-we-are-funded  ... Includes deloitte, google etc etc

https://neweconomics.org/

https://neweconomics.org/who-funds-us

http://www.nlgn.org.uk/public/about-nlgn/

 

Fair play to them if they do not do anything illegal.

Do not pretend everyone is not at the same thing.

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2019 by Fromage Frais

[msi]

52 minutes ago, mallish said:

Could not agree more - who cares 

 

 

So groups that purport to show the 'will of the people' are just mouthpieces for the ultra elites?

If they supported Brexit, perhaps the real result of the referendum was 16M Remain and 26 Ultra elites to want leave plus a whole lot of gullible sheeple who don't care?

 

[Locke]

59 minutes ago, msi said:

a whole lot of gullible sheeple who don't care

 

4 hours ago, Locke said:

if democracy in this country is so vulnerable to outside money, that is an argument against democracy generally, rather than a specific result you didn't like.

 

[msi]

27 minutes ago, Locke said:

if democracy in this country is so vulnerable to outside money, that is an argument against democracy generally, rather than a specific result you didn't like.

 

Facile argument.  Democracy is based on an informed populous.  Funding education is fine, but presenting a single opinion as the 'voice of the masses' isn't.

If the Ultra's created a forum for 'reasons why we think Brexit is great / bad, join us if you agree' that is fine.  Using the idea of a 'platform' to push a bias isn't.  That's why I rail against print media and lefty channel 4.  The BBC takes the easy way out presenting all views as equal.

Edited November 29, 2019 by msi
typo

[Locke]

22 minutes ago, msi said:

Democracy is based on an informed populous.

Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία dēmokratía, literally "rule by people") is a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation. 

22 minutes ago, msi said:

If the Ultra's created a forum for 'reasons why we think Brexit is great / bad, join us if you agree' that is fine.  Using the idea of a 'platform' to push a bias isn't. 

In your opinion.

 

Given that 'informedness' is a subjective measure, implementing and policing this preference of yours is very open to abuse.

[msi]

59 minutes ago, Locke said:

Democracy (Greek: δημοκρατία dēmokratía, literally "rule by people") is a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation. 

If you read the rest of the Wikipedia Article, it will enlighten you further:

Athenian democracy took the form of a direct democracy ... All eligible citizens were allowed to speak and vote in the assembly, which set the laws of the city state. However, Athenian citizenship excluded women, slaves, foreigners, non-landowners, and men under 20 years of age. The exclusion of large parts of the population from the citizen body is closely related to the ancient understanding of citizenship.

The understanding of Citizenship being informed, educated, and with a valid stake in the wellbeing of society. Offshore donors don't have this.

Quote

Given that 'informedness' is a subjective measure, implementing and policing this preference of yours is very open to abuse.

Opinion is subjective,  Informed knowledge isn't.   Either you know about Gravity or not.  If it was subject to such open abuse, then you better inform Oxford and Cambridge that academic exams are subjective and worthless.

 

Like I said, setting a viewpoint and proposing it is fine (you can say Gravity is either a force of nature or just a result of invisible angels), creating the illusion of a 'platform' to get opinion isn't (Lets create a forum to see why Gravity Angels want us to serve the Lord)

 

The same thought process ties people to HPI (economic growth, innit?) and continuous financialisation (help to buy, innit)

[Kosmin]

12 hours ago, Fishfinger said:

I wonder how much foreign money funds left wing groups?

Probably none, but it depends what you mean by left wing.

12 hours ago, Fishfinger said:

How many groups are funded by wealthy foreign individuals such as George Soros?

I'm not sure how many or how much he funds, but I think he is mischaracterised. His Open Society Foundation was inspired by Karl Popper's Open Society and its enemies. Popper was also a founder of the Mont Pelerin Society (basically the genesis of neoliberalism). 

12 hours ago, Fishfinger said:

I wonder how much money the government gets from the EU?

I thought the government paid money to the EU.

 

[chronyx]

21 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

https://www.theguardian.com/

Disregarded 

[MARTINX9]

On 29/11/2019 at 10:21, PeanutButter said:

Link please.

Result I don’t like? I honestly DGAF about Brexit. It’s stupid but I have enough wealth and income not to worry about it at all. I can afford private healthcare. Plus I’m dual citizen so first sign of deterioration I can flee easily.

I DO have a problem with wealthy yanks pulling strings WITHOUT transparency. 

But clearly the modern British mentality involves rolling over for a belly rub whenever anyone with money clicks their fingers. It’s pathetic, and the fact people aren’t even angry about it shows how low our standards have sunk.

Brexit sovereignty indeed. A nation of deluded worms.

 

We have allowed wealthy foreign nationals/interests to buy up large swathes of our country -

Virgin trains will lose their final franchise shortly to the Italians - and most of our rail companies are German, French or Dutch owned,

same applies to many of the most of our big energy firms - EDF is French, nPower and eON are German owned and Scottish power is actually Spanish owned, British Gas is still British - for now!

same with water - Affinity water which supplies much of the south east was owned by Morgan Stanley a US investment bank before they sold it to a German insurer. Staffs, Northumberland and Cambridge water are Chinese owned,  Wessex water is Malaysian owned and other companies are owned or part owned by SIngaporean and Japanese firms 

much of prime central London property is owned by billionaire foreign nationals

Many huge developments are being built and owned by foreign interest - from Battersea power station and the huge multi billion government backed regeneration scheme owned by Malaysia to the Royal Docks being developed by the Chinese to much of the Olympic park housing being sold off to the Qataris

If you want to worry about foreign companies and agents buying up the UK there is a lot more to be concerned about than a £3 million US donation to some think tanks.  Much of our key infrastructure is no longer owned by us from railway operators, to water to gas to electricity suppliers to major developments.

I remember seeing a tv drama where there was a discussion between the US secretary of state and their Chinese equivalent. The Chinese foreign minister on the show jokingly observed - we have no need of armies or nuclear weapons to take you over - when the time comes we will simply repossess you!!

Edited November 30, 2019 by MARTINX9

[simvastatin]

46 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

 

We have allowed wealthy foreign nationals/interests to buy up large swathes of our country -

Virgin trains will lose their final franchise shortly to the Italians - and most of our rail companies are German, French or Dutch owned,

same applies to many of the most of our big energy firms - EDF is French, nPower and eON are German owned and Scottish power is actually Spanish owned, British Gas is still British - for now!

same with water - Affinity water which supplies much of the south east was owned by Morgan Stanley a US investment bank before they sold it to a German insurer. Staffs, Northumberland and Cambridge water are Chinese owned,  Wessex water is Malaysian owned and other companies are owned or part owned by SIngaporean and Japanese firms 

much of prime central London property is owned by billionaire foreign nationals

Many huge developments are being built and owned by foreign interest - from Battersea power station and the huge multi billion government backed regeneration scheme owned by Malaysia to the Royal Docks being developed by the Chinese to much of the Olympic park housing being sold off to the Qataris

If you want to worry about foreign companies and agents buying up the UK there is a lot more to be concerned about than a £3 million US donation to some think tanks.  Much of our key infrastructure is no longer owned by us from railway operators, to water to gas to electricity suppliers to major developments.

I remember seeing a tv drama where there was a discussion between the US secretary of state and their Chinese equivalent. The Chinese foreign minister on the show jokingly observed - we have no need of armies or nuclear weapons to take you over - when the time comes we will simply repossess you!!

On the flip side, UK plc has trillions of dollars of assets in other countries.

[MarkG]

On 29/11/2019 at 17:00, Kosmin said:

I'm not sure how many or how much he funds, but I think he is mischaracterised.

Soros helped the Nazis to confiscate property from fellow Jews during WWII and said he didn't feel bad about doing so and it was one of the best times of his life.

The man must be a psychopath to say that, yet you're defending him.

This is why democracy is a disaster. It rapidly becomes idiocracy.

[Pop321]

Feels as though the contra argument is...what do we expect? The example in the OP is a ‘light one’ the rich influence many things and their influence is growing. But hey, what do you expect? 

I think general awareness is really poor on how the media, business, politics, finance and indeed most things are influenced by the few. Many don’t care as long as Sky TV viewing is good, they think they are cleverer than the system and think they know the truth and they have ‘Material stuff’. Everything is dumbed down and I genuinely believe if all people are happy and have what they need then it’s all okay. Dumb and happy works for most. Me included. 

As for those who struggle to look after themselves, the weak, the non idle poor who might be victims of the systems and influence in place....maybe those who can’t afford a house (something many feel quite strongly on here)...well that’s their problem.

Again from the top of the tree it all looks good to me...what I find bewildering is those below seem to accept it. Received with thanks. 

Hmm...what’s on Netflix tonight? 

[spyguy]

On 29/11/2019 at 10:21, PeanutButter said:

Link please.

Result I don’t like? I honestly DGAF about Brexit. It’s stupid but I have enough wealth and income not to worry about it at all. I can afford private healthcare. Plus I’m dual citizen so first sign of deterioration I can flee easily.

I DO have a problem with wealthy yanks pulling strings WITHOUT transparency. 

But clearly the modern British mentality involves rolling over for a belly rub whenever anyone with money clicks their fingers. It’s pathetic, and the fact people aren’t even angry about it shows how low our standards have sunk.

Brexit sovereignty indeed. A nation of deluded worms.

https://iea.org.uk/in-the-media/press-release/european-commission-spending-millions-on-pro-eu-lobby-groups

[spyguy]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEADER_programme

[chronyx]

On 29/11/2019 at 10:21, PeanutButter said:

Result I don’t like? I honestly DGAF about Brexit. It’s stupid but I have enough wealth and income not to worry about it at all. I can afford private healthcare. Plus I’m dual citizen so first sign of deterioration I can flee easily.

Wow us proles are lucky to have an genius (sic) like you to post here.

You spend too much time thinking about some thing that doesn't affect you and you don't care about. From the point of view of a mere pleb of course.

[bearishonhouses]

10 hours ago, MarkG said:

Soros helped the Nazis to confiscate property from fellow Jews during WWII and said he didn't feel bad about doing so and it was one of the best times of his life.

The man must be a psychopath to say that, yet you're defending him.

This is why democracy is a disaster. It rapidly becomes idiocracy.

Not true:- https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/george-soros-ss-nazi-germany/    In particular, Soros was born in 1930

[PeanutButter]

4 hours ago, chronyx said:

Wow us proles are lucky to have an genius (sic) like you to post here.

You spend too much time thinking about some thing that doesn't affect you and you don't care about. From the point of view of a mere pleb of course.

lolol I didn’t call you a pleb but it’s interesting that that’s the insult you choose to use for yourself. Why is that? Do you feel inconsequential or lowly? 
I’m fortunate enough to be insulated from a decision that has already made our country and its people poorer and will continue to make our country and its people poorer. I’m lucky and acknowledge it. 

It’s still a stupid idea. I don’t want our country and people made any poorer, particularly not at the behest of wealthy foreigners.

7 hours ago, spyguy said:

https://iea.org.uk/in-the-media/press-release/european-commission-spending-millions-on-pro-eu-lobby-groups

Did...did you just quote a MFing IEA report as a source for “news” on lobbying?  

 

7 hours ago, Pop321 said:

Again from the top of the tree it all looks good to me...what I find bewildering is those below seem to accept it. Received with thanks. 

Exactly. Many people, particularly on this forum dedicated to the fact that an essential requirement, housing, is too expensive, seem to have a weird subservient bent which comes out when rich people are caught manipulating the rules/tax/laws/government etc. As long as it’s the ‘right’ rich people (in this case foreign libertarian conservatives) then shrugs abound. 

Weird.

 

[chronyx]

Just now, PeanutButter said:

Mmm anger issues. Classic online. x

Nice.  Strawman and deflection.  Your next trick?

[PeanutButter]

Just now, chronyx said:

Nice.  Strawman and deflection.  Your next trick?

Babe, it’s a thread on a house price forum. Take a moment. You seem to get het up really easily. 

 

ANYWAY Back to the topic...