DiggerUK Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 https://news.sky.com/story/husband-of-us-woman-granted-diplomatic-immunity-not-registered-diplomat-11830734 So, 40 days after Harry was killed, it emerges that the killer was not on any diplomatic list of the US embassy under the Vienna Convention. Her husband was part of the operation of mass surveillance of citizens of the UK and USA, and is how both countries get around the laws that prevent them spying on their own citizens. "the NSA has staff here fronting the spying on British citizens, while GCHQ has staff in the US fronting the spying on US citizens, and the polite fiction is that the results are transmitted back over the Atlantic to the US or UK respectively, before being “shared” with the partner intelligence agency" https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/ This was of course revealed by Edward Snowden and Julian Assange a long time ago..._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 This stinks up to high heaven and will perhaps be the beginning of the end for US/UK "Special Relationship" (and it already strained with Afghanistan and Iraq). America's is probably in a similar position to 1980s Soviet Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qetesuesi Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Yeah, we expelled Russian diplomats over Salisbury/novichok which the Russians always denied committing, so that from their POV at least their actions since then have been 'honest' on their terms. But here we have the culprit admitting her fault yet being allowed to flee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 If she had stayed she wouldn't even get a jail sentence. Suspended one, fine, ban. Isn't going to affect the special relationship, especially so as we now have an ex-American, desperate for a scraps of US trade, PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 She doesn't have diplomatic immunity, never did. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/harry-dunn-trump-anne-sacoolas-witness-us-diplomat-uk-a9153406.html Which bring the point that US citizens who commit crimes outside the US are a flight risk and should NEVER be give bail. But it won't happen now we are leaving the EU, UK will be the USA' s poodle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 Dreadful, tragic accident, but an accident none the less. If we didn't have the guideline that if someone is killed, someone must go to prison, she may well have stayed but with a likely prison sentence hanging over her I can understand the advice of the US embassy to return home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said: Dreadful, tragic accident, but an accident none the less. If we didn't have the guideline that if someone is killed, someone must go to prison, she may well have stayed but with a likely prison sentence hanging over her I can understand the advice of the US embassy to return home. You think its acceptable to evade justice? Maybe the UK government can reciprocate and allow UK citizens to evade justice abroad. It wont do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 I merely question the UK sentencing guidelines where people face an almost certain custodial sentence for a momentary lapse of concentration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted October 13, 2019 Share Posted October 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Peter Hun said: If she had stayed she wouldn't even get a jail sentence. Suspended one, fine, ban. Isn't going to affect the special relationship, especially so as we now have an ex-American, desperate for a scraps of US trade, PM. I agree she wouldn't have ended up with much of a sentence if she had just stayed. It was a accident, but with a terrible consequence. I would have thought the two countries could come up with some solution where she spends a sentence tagged on a US base or something. Obviously sad someone had to die, in general I think driving offence sentencing is to weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Hun Posted October 14, 2019 Share Posted October 14, 2019 13 hours ago, Bruce Banner said: I merely question the UK sentencing guidelines where people face an almost certain custodial sentence for a momentary lapse of concentration. This has been normal for all offenses since the start of lawmaking. A monetary act of criminality, an impulse punch with a knife, a sexual urge, falling asleep at the wheel. The US is vastly more punitive for such lapses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted October 16, 2019 Author Share Posted October 16, 2019 Is there anybody here not totally impressed by the strength of Harry's family? If push ever came to shove with my family, I hope we would step up to the plate in such an honourable manner. There are a few news videos in this link, seeing and hearing them is far more impressive than just reading the rest of the story..._ https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7577013/Parents-UK-crash-victim-seek-justice-White-House.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qetesuesi Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Yes they're determined and they've got good legal support. Sooner or later they will win. Meanwhile what do we make of Trump's meeting with them? Does he have the authority to sign an executive order or something for an extradition? What's stopping her coming back to UK for a trial? No one seems to be giving any US national interest reason why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I think Trump is totally arrogant about this. Why would he allow such as stunt to take place? I think it's completely disgusting. What I can't seem to find out is what happens now? Can she be found guilty in her absence? Can an extradition application be made to the US if she is found guilty? If she doesn't return before a court case, would her sentence be much more? To be fair if she had stayed, faced justice and shown remorse, she would probably have received a long or lifetime driving ban in the UK, suspended sentence and a large fine anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Watched Jeremy vine this morning and Carole Malone on the panel was vile she stated what good would come from reprimanding sacoolas as she was a mother and had 3 children why destroy their lives too. because its the right and legal correct thing to do maybe ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddog Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 10 hours ago, Jason said: To be fair if she had stayed, faced justice and shown remorse, she would probably have received a long or lifetime driving ban in the UK, suspended sentence and a large fine anyway. Exactly, not sure if she was badly advised, or made a stop decision herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50086340 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancTom Posted October 24, 2019 Share Posted October 24, 2019 On 09/10/2019 at 20:16, Qetesuesi said: Yeah, we expelled Russian diplomats over Salisbury/novichok which the Russians always denied committing, so that from their POV at least their actions since then have been 'honest' on their terms. But here we have the culprit admitting her fault yet being allowed to flee! The Americans are far more powerful than us and won't hesitate to punish us if we don't comply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted October 27, 2019 Author Share Posted October 27, 2019 Harry's brother Niall gives first interviewIt seems that Niall is of the same calibre as the rest of his family.Like others here, I have been more than impressed with how the family have stepped up to the plate in demanding justice for Harry, and not been intimidated by the lies from government on both sides of the Atlantic..._This exchange in the House of Commons clearly shows that Dominic Raab knows he is lying through his teeth about diplomatic immunity. I recommend a read of the whole debate that was held in parliament. Neither of the Sacoolas had diplomatic immunity..._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qetesuesi Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 24/10/2019 at 12:12, MancTom said: The Americans are far more powerful than us and won't hesitate to punish us if we don't comply. Comply with what? It's the US who should be complying with the extradition, and we who will 'punish' them if they don't, for tens of millions of $$$ in their own courts (not to mention the "wonderful" publicity as the whole world gets to know of it). On 27/10/2019 at 11:02, DiggerUK said: This exchange in the House of Commons clearly shows that Dominic Raab knows he is lying through his teeth about diplomatic immunity. That's quite a TLDR - please highlight the specific statements that lead you to that conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50870459 Looks like a charging decision finally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 https://news.sky.com/story/police-probe-footage-of-car-on-wrong-side-of-road-near-harry-dunn-raf-base-11911578 Now we're getting somewhere, as I suspected, it was not an isolated incident. The most important thing is not blame but to stop this happening in the future, some sort of clear warning to drive on the left when leaving a US facility is needed. I drive a lot in Europe and know how careful one must be not to drive on the wrong side of the road when starting a journey. A particularly dangerous time is after stopping for a short time, like at a security gate, just before entering a main road. I can drive for hundreds of miles in a day with no problems whatsoever. The danger time, when I know to be particularly aware, is the first few yards at the start of each day and the odd complicated junction. It's the same when returning to UK after driving for months in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 19/01/2020 at 00:34, Bruce Banner said: https://news.sky.com/story/police-probe-footage-of-car-on-wrong-side-of-road-near-harry-dunn-raf-base-11911578 Now we're getting somewhere, as I suspected, it was not an isolated incident. The most important thing is not blame but to stop this happening in the future, some sort of clear warning to drive on the left when leaving a US facility is needed. I drive a lot in Europe and know how careful one must be not to drive on the wrong side of the road when starting a journey. A particularly dangerous time is after stopping for a short time, like at a security gate, just before entering a main road. I can drive for hundreds of miles in a day with no problems whatsoever. The danger time, when I know to be particularly aware, is the first few yards at the start of each day and the odd complicated junction. It's the same when returning to UK after driving for months in France. I've seen exactly this. Following the credit crunch when the £ dived and there were tonnes of European tourists getting the ferry over for a cheap holiday, in a Yorkshire Dales car park I saw a European-numberplated car merrily exit the car park and drive a quarter of a mile down the road on the right hand side at normal road speed, before performing a mad panicky serve to the correct side when they realised what they'd done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Coming around a corner in France once, car coming towards me - "What's that idiot doing on the wrong oh sh1t it's me on the wrong side." Easily done. When I was going back and forth between the UK and France quite regularly I often found myself having to think carefully about which way round a roundabout I was supposed to go on the first one I encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone59 Posted January 26, 2020 Share Posted January 26, 2020 On 22/01/2020 at 17:52, Riedquat said: Coming around a corner in France once, car coming towards me - "What's that idiot doing on the wrong oh sh1t it's me on the wrong side." Easily done. When I was going back and forth between the UK and France quite regularly I often found myself having to think carefully about which way round a roundabout I was supposed to go on the first one I encountered. A car exited a small industrial estate in front of me, doing a sharp right into the left hand lane, so facing me. There were a couple of vehicles coming along the right hand lane but far enough away so that I could slowly pass the car, which had stopped when I leant on the horn. Couple of hundred yards before I had been on a left hand bend so this was not far away from being a head on at a closing speed of 80 -100 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiggerUK Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share Posted May 13, 2020 The claims that either of the Sacoolas had diplomatic immunity are false. The claims are not feasible when the protocols for granting diplomatic immunity were clearly never met. "Shadow foreign secretary Lisa Nandy has called for a parliamentary inquiry, in which the Foreign Secretary would have to explain "failings" with Mr Dunn's case." I have no doubt that the inquiry will prove they never had immunity. A case can be put before the American courts to deliver her to British authorities, any claims about a "final decision" can be dismissed and turn out not to be the final US word on the matter.The Interpol Warrant means she cannot leave the USA without being detained by the country she enters until extradited to the UK. I have more confidence than ever before that there will be justice for Harry..._ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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