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California passes landmark gig economy rights bill

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Lawmakers in California have passed a law that paves the way for gig economy workers to get holiday and sick pay.

Assembly Bill 5, as its known, will affect companies such as Uber and Lyft, which depend on those working in the gig economy.

Some estimates suggest costs for those firms would increase by 30% if they have to treat workers as employees.

But opponents of the bill say it will hurt those that want to work flexible hours.

The business models of gig economy companies are already under strain - Uber lost more than $5bn in the last quarter alone. Some estimates suggest that having to treat workers as employees, rather than independent contractors, could increase costs by as much as 30%.

Uber and rival ridesharing service Lyft joined forces to push back again the bill. They suggested a guaranteed minimum wage of $21 per hour instead of the sweeping changes the bill would bring.

But that pledge wasn't enough to sway California's Senate, and the state's governor Gavin Newsom is expected to soon sign the bill into law. That paves the way for California's 1 million gig workers to gain added rights next year.

the whole sham of gig economy workers is starting to fall apart. the government here would hate that as the "great employment figures" would be shown to be a sham 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49659775

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Why don't they just set up their own "app driven" taxi and ride-sharing apps and bypass the rentiers at the top? It's not rocket science.

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8 hours ago, Pindar said:

Why don't they just set up their own "app driven" taxi and ride-sharing apps and bypass the rentiers at the top? It's not rocket science.

Probably because they haven't got hoards of wealthy investors willing to finance a loss-making business year in, year out in the forlorn hope that one day the business will obtain monopoly position so it can rack up its costs and finally make a profit..?

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3 hours ago, zilly said:

Probably because they haven't got hoards of wealthy investors willing to finance a loss-making business year in, year out in the forlorn hope that one day the business will obtain monopoly position so it can rack up its costs and finally make a profit..?

I don't think many of these companies make an overall profit. Neither Uber, Amazon (who host CIA's cloud) or Twitter have made any profit.

If making profit is oxygen then competing against these companies is like having a breath holding competition with a dead body. It's all about the share price. Also collecting everyone's data.

 

11 hours ago, Pindar said:

Why don't they just set up their own "app driven" taxi and ride-sharing apps and bypass the rentiers at the top? It's not rocket science.

Possible but with obstacles. They could charge the same and get the whole margin to themselves with room to maneuver, but they won't have the same advertising budget. There's also probably something in the contract that disallows poaching a client base and they'd likely interpret any sniff of such as doing so.

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Maybe an Uber like company should try a franchise model where drivers put in say £5k and get to keep all the earnings, they would be considered part owner and could avoid this regulation.  

 

Whatever happens Uber like services are here to stay.

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15 minutes ago, reddog said:

Maybe an Uber like company should try a franchise model where drivers put in say £5k and get to keep all the earnings, they would be considered part owner and could avoid this regulation.  

 

Whatever happens Uber like services are here to stay.

They are but it’s uber under threat not the drivers - there are at least 10 alternatives in London already and the next big one Lyft has barely got going 

Many are now heavily advertising at drivers with greatly reduced commission 10-15%

feels like a race to the bottom for the app companies 

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7 hours ago, zilly said:

Probably because they haven't got hoards of wealthy investors willing to finance a loss-making business year in, year out in the forlorn hope that one day the business will obtain monopoly position so it can rack up its costs and finally make a profit..?

I think it would be great to create an open source server and framework to support this type of thing (ride and taxi hailing and management) in the community. Something akin to wordpress but for ride sharing. It could be promoted to small taxi firms, hosted on community infrastructure and advertised locally and with p2p payments and blockchain accounting.

These centralised dinosaur money extraction machines like Uber and Lyft would not be in a position to challenge such an initiative and their business model would be rendered out of existence. I resent the way these silicon valley types are basically serial creators of monopolies that become household names, for the very reasons you cite. It's time their centralised model was challenged and technology based on open source distributed to communities to empower and enrich them, not the financiers and tech slickers in California.

I appreciate that it's a distant and perhaps unattainable goal but it only takes a grassroots movement that is both tech savvy and disenfranchised to start challenging these big corporations.

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5 hours ago, GregBowman said:

They are but it’s uber under threat not the drivers - there are at least 10 alternatives in London already and the next big one Lyft has barely got going 

Many are now heavily advertising at drivers with greatly reduced commission 10-15%

feels like a race to the bottom for the app companies 

Probably, but the consumer wins either way, which is good.

 

Car sales down 30% in India, one minister blamed Uber, I don't think that is true, but I doubt to many people will have a car as their second biggest expense in 10 years time.

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The UKGOV were supposed to be acting on the findings of the Taylor Review into the gig economy, won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen, unless Corbyn gets in.

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1 hour ago, reddog said:

Probably, but the consumer wins either way, which is good.

 

Car sales down 30% in India, one minister blamed Uber, I don't think that is true, but I doubt to many people will have a car as their second biggest expense in 10 years time.

IMHO car ownership will flatten or decline but not at that pace 

Still probably the worlds favourite ever invention, public transport just not viable for most people outside a city centre of have to make multiple meetings in a day. If you look at it video conferencing etc has been roundly rejected by the business community considering the technology has been around for years 

The privacy and freedom a car gives will still be a desire for millions 

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2 hours ago, reddog said:

Probably, but the consumer wins either way, which is good.

 

Car sales down 30% in India, one minister blamed Uber, I don't think that is true, but I doubt to many people will have a car as their second biggest expense in 10 years time.

Tata car sales down 54% down in India, it is Uber and the hipsters in the UK

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3 hours ago, GregBowman said:

Still probably the worlds favourite ever invention, public transport just not viable for most people outside a city centre of have to make multiple meetings in a day. If you look at it video conferencing etc has been roundly rejected by the business community considering the technology has been around for years

If it wasn't possible I suspect you'd fine there aren't actually anywhere near as many people who need to make multiple meetings in a day.

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3 hours ago, GregBowman said:

If you look at it video conferencing etc has been roundly rejected by the business community considering the technology has been around for years 

 

Not saying I like it, but I am usually on multiple WebEx calls a day, due to colleagues in India and Slovakia.  So I would say video conferencing is gaining acceptance, even if no one actually likes it!

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All this owning your own electric car to self drive, charge yourself is hearsay and almost very unlikely for the majority of people.......most probably it will be rent a car you will never own,  an automated car pre-charged to pick you up and drop you off at your destination......much more money can be made and less infrastructure spending investment required. 

They don't want you to own....they want you to rent almost everything you need....a continuous flow of new money/income.;)

£2 a month....you wish......how much a mile?....inflation plus 1% ongoing?

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10 minutes ago, winkie said:

All this owning your own electric car to self drive, charge yourself is hearsay and almost very unlikely for the majority of people.......most probably it will be rent a car you will never own,  an automated car pre-charged to pick you up and drop you off at your destination......much more money can be made and less infrastructure spending investment required. 

They don't want you to own....they want you to rent almost everything you need....a continuous flow of new money/income.;)

£2 a month....you wish......how much a mile?....inflation plus 1% ongoing?

So some people keep claiming but I can't see it happening. There will be some who go for that but not all. It would require rather more infrastructure spending, not less. Where are all these automated cars going to go in the meantime? They need to be parked up overnight somewhere, and you'll still need almost as many of them as currently exists. And if they're running around empty between picking up and dropping off then you need more road capacity, not less, even if they can use it more efficiently. There isn't anywhere near the electric infrastructure to support all cars being electric, automated or otherwise, but the running empty part will require even more.

And (thankfully) automated cars aren't as near as people seem to think. Bloody stupid idea.

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16 minutes ago, winkie said:

All this owning your own electric car to self drive, charge yourself is hearsay and almost very unlikely for the majority of people.......most probably it will be rent a car you will never own,  an automated car pre-charged to pick you up and drop you off at your destination......much more money can be made and less infrastructure spending investment required. 

They don't want you to own....they want you to rent almost everything you need....a continuous flow of new money/income.;)

£2 a month....you wish......how much a mile?....inflation plus 1% ongoing?

Well you're right but the car manufacturers want us to buy as many cars as possible. Having a near 100% utilised car means far fewer sales for them so the chances are they'll have to come up with new and innovative ways to remain in business.

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1 minute ago, Pindar said:

Well you're right but the car manufacturers want us to buy as many cars as possible. Having a near 100% utilised car means far fewer sales for them so the chances are they'll have to come up with new and innovative ways to remain in business.

Cars will never be near 100% utilised because travel is nowhere close to evenly spread throughout the day. It may be a bit more flexible than it once was but the rush hour is still very much a thing. In any case cars not being used aren't that much of a problem anyway.

Edited by Riedquat

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Just now, Riedquat said:

Cars will never be near 100% utilised because travel is nowhere close to evenly spread throughout the day. It may be a bit more flexible than it once was but the rush hour is still very much a thing.

But with AI and car sharing, the number of cars on the road can be substantially reduced. A car can be working while you are working, ferrying old ladies to the supermarket or people who would normally take a taxi or bus into town and elsewhere. The potential for increasing how much a car is used is much higher than we realise.

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12 minutes ago, Pindar said:

But with AI and car sharing, the number of cars on the road can be substantially reduced. A car can be working while you are working, ferrying old ladies to the supermarket or people who would normally take a taxi or bus into town and elsewhere. The potential for increasing how much a car is used is much higher than we realise.

That increases, not decreases the number of cars on the road. It decreases the number parked up during the day (but they still need to almost all have some space to park up at night) but you've no net gain on used cars if they're replacing taxis (just as much running empty) and you've definitely added if you're replacing buses.

The level of cars needed to take old ladies to the supermarket is rather less than needed at rush hour, and there need to be enough to handle that peak. So you've not reduced the total that much anyway.

In any case even if it did increase utilisation, so what? The lifespan of a modern car is primarily determined by use, not age (since rust isn't anywhere near the issue it once was), so you've not reduced the level of resources needed to go in to making cars. Again, probably added to it if a chunk of those miles are now running without people.

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1 hour ago, Pindar said:

 car sharing

Has never and will never catch on, for obvious reasons.

So I wouldn't ever expect it to be a big thing.

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

If it wasn't possible I suspect you'd fine there aren't actually anywhere near as many people who need to make multiple meetings in a day.

A meeting is dropping off your kids at nursery before you go to school then going to work and doing the shopping before picking them up - the latest gov report is there will be 11% more cars on the road by 2050 

 

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1 hour ago, reddog said:

Not saying I like it, but I am usually on multiple WebEx calls a day, due to colleagues in India and Slovakia.  So I would say video conferencing is gaining acceptance, even if no one actually likes it!

True but bit of a drive that one !

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4 hours ago, prozac said:

Tata car sales down 54% down in India, it is Uber and the hipsters in the UK

Hipsters become suburban mums and dads - will be in SUV’s before you can say about time I started wearing socks !

The market will change undoubtably and if two car families become less of the norm that’s a great start 

I can see cars being a status symbol again 

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The status will be having access to your own car with an overnight available charging point and monthly subscription paid for use of points about the areas visited.

Buses are like car sharing, sharing the cost of renting.....hiring a cab is car renting.

Cars that drive themselves will be picking up and dropping off people all day....there will be  algorithms to see usage is at maximum capacity, profit and gains.....  ;)

 

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5 hours ago, GregBowman said:

Hipsters become suburban mums and dads - will be in SUV’s before you can say about time I started wearing socks !

The market will change undoubtably and if two car families become less of the norm that’s a great start 

I can see cars being a status symbol again 

To me a car is getting from A to B and a high safety level a bit of social status, I purchased a new SUV in 2016, so I cannot complain about SUV

....you are a car connoisseur 

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  • 277 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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