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The real reasons for high house prices


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14 hours ago, Locke said:

Easy now is difficult later.

Fiat allows States to create the illusion of prosperity in the short term, while assuring that the long term will be miserable.

Yes ..... but why not just write off this 'debt'...... esp. as there's no injured party ...... (or is there???)

(doing the devil's advocate thing here)

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go back to hard money and politically people would be horrified at their true tax rate, they would demand the return of work houses etc. our 'true' tax rate is hidden by inflation which erodes your wealth to pay for services, its a system which can be escaped if your aware of it by storing wealth into real wealth stores and keeping out of fiat, i guess thats why the smart get richer, and the rich get richer, its wealth stores. Society still pays for it all, but its an easier pill to swollow when its not obvious, sadly the current system harms those who have no understanding of fiat, only save in fiat, which is generally the poor who take the biggest burden.

issue with homeless people sleeping outside your front door, instead of demanding houses for all, we install spikes, thats what humans are, horrible creatures. "Why let the poor breed!" will be the next call. humans dont really like anyone outside of their close family/friends. 

fiat allows a working society, and that's good. My biggest issue is that houses in that system end up a wealth store. I think fiat works but the wealth store should not be soo destructive for society. 

All i'm saying is that the world is not perfect and will never be perfect, but we can remove the damaging housing crisis by moving the wealth store. Would solve HPC forums issues. 

Edited by jiltedjen
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On ‎28‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 16:08, btd1981 said:

1) The government is on the hook: thanks to help to buy,  if house prices fall,  they carry the burden.  Best stop that from happening then. 

They already have burdens associated with high house prices, like the subsidies to buyers and landlords. Is it obvious the burden of low prices would be greater than the burden of high prices?

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36 minutes ago, cnick said:

Yes ..... but why not just write off this 'debt'...... esp. as there's no injured party ...... (or is there???)

(doing the devil's advocate thing here)

It's harder to borrow in the future if you don't repay your debts. If you can borrow, it will be at a higher interest rate.

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18 minutes ago, Kosmin said:

It's harder to borrow in the future if you don't repay your debts. If you can borrow, it will be at a higher interest rate.

but what interest rates can not rise?.... and what are you 'borrowing' if the lent 'money' belonged to no person?

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8 minutes ago, cnick said:

but what interest rates can not rise?.... and what are you 'borrowing' if the lent 'money' belonged to no person?

Borrowed money belonged to someone. If the money supply is increased, that money belonged to no person, but it reduces the value of the money which does belong to people. People will note the risk of not being repaid or a fall in the value of the currency. They will only lend at a higher interest rate if at all.

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On 01/07/2019 at 12:36, kzb said:

 

The islands and highlands of Scotland suffer from depopulation.  As do many northern towns to this day.  There are thousands of  empty boarded up houses and shops in these areas.  It's not a question of space.

Move the jobs to where the people are, and stop destroying what is left of our natural environment.

 

This is the same in many other countries. For some reason people flock like sheep to where all the other sheep are and  where the jobs are for the sheep, all into an overcrowded area. Scotland etc and other places in the north are suffering from lack of people, jobs and services. But how can you force employers to move into these areas? They will cite a lack of skilled local workforce as a reason not to.

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7 hours ago, jiltedjen said:

go back to hard money and politically people would be horrified at their true tax rate, they would demand the return of work houses etc. our 'true' tax rate is hidden by inflation which erodes your wealth to pay for services, its a system which can be escaped if your aware of it by storing wealth into real wealth stores and keeping out of fiat, i guess thats why the smart get richer, and the rich get richer, its wealth stores. Society still pays for it all, but its an easier pill to swollow when its not obvious, sadly the current system harms those who have no understanding of fiat, only save in fiat, which is generally the poor who take the biggest burden.
 

Any tips for coming out of fiat apart from the usual gold?

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6 hours ago, Kosmin said:

Borrowed money belonged to someone. If the money supply is increased, that money belonged to no person, but it reduces the value of the money which does belong to people.

Well there's no 'if',  the money supply has been increasing inexorably...https://www.statista.com/statistics/320127/uk-banking-total-money-supply/

and money is created by private banks when someone borrows: the money never previously belonged to anyone. It is created by dividing zero into two halves, the credit half which comprises of  some digits in an account database, and the piece of paper with a signature  half with some obligation to pay or hand over goods to the bearer. The two cancel each other, but they both look like they have value and can be exchanged for things.

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14 hours ago, bear.getting.old said:

This is the same in many other countries. For some reason people flock like sheep to where all the other sheep are and  where the jobs are for the sheep, all into an overcrowded area. Scotland etc and other places in the north are suffering from lack of people, jobs and services. But how can you force employers to move into these areas? They will cite a lack of skilled local workforce as a reason not to.

This is what happens in developing countries, where the workforce is moving from agriculture to the urban areas.

Since the 1960's, British cities saw the reverse: people moved out of the dirty crime ridden cities to find a better standard of living in the suburbs and commuter towns.  The populations of all our major cities declined markedly, and are well below their historic peaks to this day (except perhaps Gtr London).  That decline though started to reverse in the last 20 years or so.

The recent increases in inner city populations: I am not entirely sure what is going on.  Obviously a lot of city centre cell-block flats have been built and sold to young people.  I think they want university to carry on forever.

This could be reversing soon.  The night life is pretty well killed off,  people select dating partners on dating sites instead of going out, and all the stores are being closed down.  There is no youth culture to speak of any more.  In other words the fun aspects of city centre living are being systematically taken away, so what is the point of suffering the downsides.

 

 

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......also many of the people making up the numbers in certain places are tourists......the changes are that even tourists are looking to visit new and other places, shopping is old hat....off the beaten track, new experiences.....not the same old same old, set up and priced for tourism, searching for authenticity.;)

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On 29/06/2019 at 11:21, Riedquat said:

a) 10% includes Scotland, which certainly isn't overcrowded.

b) Even 10% is a sign of being overcrowded and overdeveloped, it's a terribly high number for an overall level of development. Also compare that number with what it would've been just within living memory - a truly scary rate of change.

It's beyond me how anyone who's even travelled around the country more than a tiny bit could not find it overcrowded; you've got to be really oversimplifying to treat that as "well I can see lots of bits that aren't built on" when you're rarely more than 20 miles from somewhere large.

Fair enough about the "small" bit though, as far as islands go it's a fairly large one.

Also a lot of the bit that is not built on is farmland.  The amount of wildlife in the UK has decreased drastically compared to the past we have no wolves etc left.

 

I saw the news item that found that most of the UK is natural - load of rubbish they count farmland, parks, wembley etc as natural!

Edited by iamnumerate
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1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

Also a lot of the bit that is not built on is farmland.  The amount of wildlife in the UK has decreased drastically compared to the past we have no wolves etc left.

 

I saw the news item that found that most of the UK is natural - load of rubbish they count farmland, parks, wembley etc as natural!

There's really a continuum rather than simply "natural or developed." There's a world of difference between a pretty much 100% agricultural but not very intensively farmed area - lots of hedges, small fields, stands of trees etc. and, say, East Anglia, with huge monoculture fields separated by maybe a ditch and fence, if anything.

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19 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

There's really a continuum rather than simply "natural or developed." There's a world of difference between a pretty much 100% agricultural but not very intensively farmed area - lots of hedges, small fields, stands of trees etc. and, say, East Anglia, with huge monoculture fields separated by maybe a ditch and fence, if anything.

If they're spraying crops with fungicides, pesticides, herbicides - does it really matter how big the fields are? We don't really have much wilderness left, at least in England. 

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/wilderness-quality-index/wilderness-quality-index-including-terrain

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/wilderness-quality-index/wilderness-quality-index-including-terrain/image_large

Wonder if this links to British people rank among most depressed people in Western World because 

Getting back to nature: how forest bathing can make us feel better

Kill nature, kill happiness.

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32 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

If they're spraying crops with fungicides, pesticides, herbicides - does it really matter how big the fields are? We don't really have much wilderness left, at least in England. 

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/wilderness-quality-index/wilderness-quality-index-including-terrain

The size of fields are just one part of the downsides to the environment, both aesthetically and ecologically. Those things are another.

The modern world has been amazingly successful in removing a lot of the physical hardships of life but mentally it's a bloody disaster. Still, can't let all that subjective sentiment about attractive views and surroundings get in the way of progress, it's far more important to be able to get from one bland city to another identical one as fast as possible!

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44 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

The size of fields are just one part of the downsides to the environment, both aesthetically and ecologically. Those things are another.

The modern world has been amazingly successful in removing a lot of the physical hardships of life but mentally it's a bloody disaster. Still, can't let all that subjective sentiment about attractive views and surroundings get in the way of progress, it's far more important to be able to get from one bland city to another identical one as fast as possible!

I'd argue we've been successful in shifting those hardships elsewhere, for other people and nature to bear out of sight at our benefit. Cheap strawberries, cheap cashews, avocado toast, cheap prawns, the usual fashion practices, Aussie beef, Brazilian beef - the endless list of our rapacious desire for more,  cheaper, faster. 

And what happens to these people when everything is done by robot? https://sciencebusiness.net/network-updates/photonics-strawberry-picking-robots-gather-enough-fruit-wimbledon-1-week Photonics: strawberry-picking robots to gather enough fruit for Wimbledon in 1 week

Things are changing very rapidly. 

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2 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

If they're spraying crops with fungicides, pesticides, herbicides - does it really matter how big the fields are? We don't really have much wilderness left, at least in England. 

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/wilderness-quality-index/wilderness-quality-index-including-terrain

https://www.eea.europa.eu/data-and-maps/figures/wilderness-quality-index/wilderness-quality-index-including-terrain/image_large

Wonder if this links to British people rank among most depressed people in Western World because 

Getting back to nature: how forest bathing can make us feel better

Kill nature, kill happiness.

Nice map.;)

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54 minutes ago, OzzMosiz said:

if they could help control house price inflation by normal wage inflation (or even just below it) then that wouldn't be an issue. How you control it is another matter though.

I think one of the key points is to inflate asset prices. Because you can ignore asset price inflation when calculating inflation in a post-truth world.

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A link to the PDF can be found here -

https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2019/04/29/Enabling-Deep-Negative-Rates-A-Guide-46598

"The experience of the Great Recession and its aftermath revealed that a lower bound on interest rates can be a serious obstacle for fighting recessions."

Why do we need to fight recessions? Recessions are normal and necessary. The only reason banks and governments want to fight recessions is because of the stupid bubbles they keep inflating, and recessions tend to pop them.

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