PeanutButter Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/06/uk-running-out-of-care-home-places-says-geriatrics-society-chief Quote The UK is running out of care home places and soon there will not be enough to look after the growing number of vulnerable older people needing specialist care, the president of the British Geriatrics Society has warned. Prof Tahir Masud, fears that because so many care homes have collapsed in the past few years that the quality of those left will also decline as a result. More than 100 care home operators collapsed in 2018, taking the total over five years to more than 400 and sparking warnings that patients in homes that close down could be left with nowhere to go but hospitals. “I’m concerned that we will not be left with enough care homes,” said Masud. “Then where are all these vulnerable, older people going to go? At the moment, [the system is] just about hanging in and it’ll probably be OK for a year or two, but after that, the wheels could come off completely. Slowly, things are going to wind down. Quality will go down.” Three out of five MPs say people in their constituencies are suffering because of cuts to social care, with three-quarters saying there is a crisis in care in England, according to a recent poll by the NHS Confederation, which leads Health for Care, a coalition of 15 organisations. The number of people in the UK aged 85 or over is expected to more than double in the next 25 years. By 2040, nearly one in seven Britons will be over 75. It's almost as if our entire society is built like some like of pyramid...or Ponzi scheme...that requires an endless supply at the bottom... Edited June 6, 2019 by PeanutButter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Banner Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 It certainly is. What is Philip Hammond's business?.... Oh yes, I remember... . https://londonlovesbusiness.com/how-rich-is-philip-hammond-2/ Hammond also owns a controlling interest in Wrexham-based Castlemead Property – the housebuilder and care homes developer – in which he has shares reportedly worth £4.9m. Hammond set up Castlemead in 1984 with business partner Terry Gregson. Since becoming a government minister, his stake has been controlled by an onshore discretionary trust. While the business is not run on a day-to-day basis by Hammond, he is still the main beneficiary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Fear not. I recall quite recently some ex BTL scumbag suggesting care homes should be, or will be the next venture for landlords. So the shortfall of care home places will be rectified. Phew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 Am I not the only one to note the ironical connection between high property prices, elderly hogging unnecessarily large family homes, and lack of provision of care homes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 So what do other countries do?... how do they cope with the dilemma of people living longer with multiple health issues both physical and mental.....this is not just a UK problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 8 minutes ago, winkie said: So what do other countries do?... how do they cope with the dilemma of people living longer with multiple health issues both physical and mental.....this is not just a UK problem. They care for their elderly, because they have enough rooms in their houses and aren't working two full time salaries to pay the mortgage. Ideally anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, Si1 said: They care for their elderly, because they have enough rooms in their houses and aren't working two full time salaries to pay the mortgage. Ideally anyway. .... some truth in that, what about elderly people selling/renting their house and combining resources together with their caring family so that there is enough room.....granny annex.....or do we sometimes prefer others to do the caring job on our behalf, living miles away working to pay our own bills and holidays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I don't know if anyone has noticed recent health news goes as follows.....'shortage of beds', 'shortage of doctors', 'shortage of care home places'......when the biggest shortage of all is shortage of training........we do not invest enough in training, doctors, nurses or care workers, period......many doctors now work part time which compounds the shortage.....nurses are no longer paid a bursary or trained within the hospitals, care workers forget it there is no public investment at all, rely on private training or people who have been trained by foreign countries.......total lack of forward thinking imv.......or is it all a preceding push to get people ready and accustomed for what is to come, what future health service we will have to adapt to, and the various different new options that will be available to us, what it will cost and who will pay for it, don't want to shock or spring it on us unexpectedly.......preparing the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm_81 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 I don't know if this is still the norm where I come from (Greece), but my grandma is still alive, and I think that is partly down to her staying with some of her children, and grandchildren, and still contributing as much as she can. Taking care of the elderly in the family was certainly a norm when I was in my teenage years, maybe not as much now, but it still happens often. I will be 40 in just a couple of years by the way! I imagine if she had went to a care home she might not have lived that long. For those who do need care homes, the costs are lower, because the care home employees do not have such huge housing costs! The building they grew up in is easily big enough for everyone, But the older of the grandchildren are also renting their own separate flats. Again, because housing costs are low, so why not ? If they were doing their exact same job in the UK, they would be earning far more, but would not be able to afford the house, car and lifestyle they do now. And before anyone mentions anything, they ARE paying all their taxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetsBuild Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 It is not beyond us as a society to fix this, it’s the usual rent extracting suspects that like it as it is that do not allow change. High property prices and rents drain productivity and freedom. Two people paying one mortgage, when one should be able to do it leaving the other with the time to look after their own. Automation of work should be freeing time and reducing prices but we do not seem to be realising the fruits of increased productivity, instead it just makes a few even more wealthy. In terms of trained health care professionals when I was at Uni in the early 2000’s I had a few dentist/doctor friends and it seemed from them that the university artificially capped the numbers of health care professionals it was willing to put out. If true this seems to be bit of a medical cartel that could/should be smashed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted June 6, 2019 Share Posted June 6, 2019 2 hours ago, LetsBuild said: It is not beyond us as a society to fix this, it’s the usual rent extracting suspects that like it as it is that do not allow change. The boomer generation (admittedly not every single one of them) voted for high housing prices; unintended consequences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stop_the_craziness Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 10 hours ago, Si1 said: The boomer generation (admittedly not every single one of them) voted for high housing prices; unintended consequences. And the biggest irony of all is sitting in a house "worth" £800,000 but which is no bigger or better than when you bought it for 3x salary doesn't actually make you rich. Especially if all your relatives have had to move away to live somewhere cheaper. Eventually it becomes a burden and a block to happiness in later life. So then no one wins, even the winners. What a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonJop12 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said: And the biggest irony of all is sitting in a house "worth" £800,000 but which is no bigger or better than when you bought it for 3x salary doesn't actually make you rich. Especially if all your relatives have had to move away to live somewhere cheaper. Eventually it becomes a burden and a block to happiness in later life. So then no one wins, even the winners. What a mess. I can see this happening with my parents. There is no chance that myself or my siblings will be able to buy in the South East. My 25k deposit does not cut the mustard. What happens in 25 years-time when the parents are in their mid 70s and need someone doing their shopping. I’ll be living hundreds of miles away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 The disease is State intervention. The proposed solution is always "more State intervention", but this will make the problem worse, until it comes to a head, which will probably be a mass die-off of the elderly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APerson Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 23 minutes ago, Locke said: The disease is State intervention. The proposed solution is always "more State intervention", but this will make the problem worse, until it comes to a head, which will probably be a mass die-off of the elderly. Libertarian detected. I used to think this - but its crony capitalism not state intervention perse- a nationalist government with long term forsight who is acting on behalf of the people could potentially intervene positively. Cutting regulation and removing state intervention doesn't work -just lets the market get out of control in the current financial system of QE, bank bailouts, central banking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, APerson said: Libertarian detected. Nope. Libertarianism is equivalent to "Rape is evil, but no rape would be anarchy, so we need a small amount of rape." At least Commies and Socialists are consistent in their "Rape is a moral good and mandatory for everyone." message 13 minutes ago, APerson said: its crony capitalism not state intervention perse Crony capitalism is State intervention. It's not as bad as full-blown Communism, but it is still evil. 12 minutes ago, APerson said: a nationalist government with long term forsight who is acting on behalf of the people could potentially intervene positively. So...a utopia? 14 minutes ago, APerson said: Cutting regulation and removing state intervention doesn't work -just lets the market get out of control in the current financial system of QE, bank bailouts, central banking. Quitting alcohol can literally kill you. Painfully. Does that mean it is better to remain an alcoholic forever? Yes, the current system is predicated upon predatory State intervention robbing the populace to feed to the politically well-connected. That does not mean that is the only way a society can or even should run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 15 hours ago, winkie said: I don't know if anyone has noticed recent health news goes as follows.....'shortage of beds', 'shortage of doctors', 'shortage of care home places'......when the biggest shortage of all is shortage of training........we do not invest enough in training, doctors, nurses or care workers, period..... Amen to that. "Training is someone else's problem" is a disease that's spread through all levels of the UK. It's not just doctors and nurses, just look how many businesses are trying their best to shirk training up staff, expecting someone else to pay to do it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Riedquat said: Amen to that. "Training is someone else's problem" is a disease that's spread through all levels of the UK. It's not just doctors and nurses, just look how many businesses are trying their best to shirk training up staff, expecting someone else to pay to do it for them. What you could get away with and ignore/paper over 30 to 40 years ago (skipping proper training to save or externalise costs) you can't get away with now, even 10 or so years ago (when the economic system in the UK hit a limit and been crashing since then). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluestone59 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Riedquat said: Amen to that. "Training is someone else's problem" is a disease that's spread through all levels of the UK. It's not just doctors and nurses, just look how many businesses are trying their best to shirk training up staff, expecting someone else to pay to do it for them. This doesn't seem to us to be the case within the care business, possibly due to intervention by CQC who are quite vicious. My Mrs. left her job because of the insane amount of training and the extent to which it was intruding on her own time but at least as much because a lot of it had no relevance at all to her work. The previous place was much the same although she left that one cos it was a dump rather than the excessive training, part of which seems to be a way of covering staff shortages by getting staff to cover for jobs they're not strictly speaking employed to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APerson Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 When the Eastern bloc EU countries got access to our markets in 2004 businesses got lots of skilled people cheap which surpressed wages and meant they didnt need to train up a generation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Riedquat said: Amen to that. "Training is someone else's problem" is a disease that's spread through all levels of the UK. It's not just doctors and nurses, just look how many businesses are trying their best to shirk training up staff, expecting someone else to pay to do it for them. Agree with that.......training is something we all should have access to throughout a now ~ 40 years working life, not just for the 20 somethings.....there are very few jobs for life, perhaps that is why employers are more reluctant to invest in training, training someone who will take their new found knowledge elsewhere for more money.....people will more than likely switch careers two or more times during their working life, many 40 somethings have never had any further education.......who will train them with all their life experiences?... very much doubt they will pay £9k a year to learn to be a care worker or nurse......the country's loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Orange Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, APerson said: When the Eastern bloc EU countries got access to our markets in 2004 businesses got lots of skilled people cheap which surpressed wages and meant they didnt need to train up a generation. Yes, but this short circuited things (even if it gave the economy some breathing room against the skills shortage) and the E. European "drones" unfortunately grow old themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpg50000 Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 31 minutes ago, Big Orange said: Yes, but this short circuited things (even if it gave the economy some breathing room against the skills shortage) and the E. European "drones" unfortunately grow old themselves. That old chestnut again. What skills shortage did we have back in 2004 that couldn't have been solved by offering appropriate training and decent salaries to UK people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 52 minutes ago, dpg50000 said: That old chestnut again. What skills shortage did we have back in 2004 that couldn't have been solved by offering appropriate training and decent salaries to UK people? Quite.....think it is solely health, no it will be food, industry, IT, energy......do we think we do better by importing cheap labour and goods from throughout the globalised world to the detriment of doing it ourselves?.....race to the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregBowman Posted June 7, 2019 Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 hour ago, winkie said: Quite.....think it is solely health, no it will be food, industry, IT, energy......do we think we do better by importing cheap labour and goods from throughout the globalised world to the detriment of doing it ourselves?.....race to the bottom. Its the British way first went out to the empire to get cheap labour then reversed and imported cheap labour - neither system benefits anyone but the ruling class Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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