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skomer

Labour proposals for Progressive Property Taxes

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Labour reveal future plans for property sector

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/104337/labour-could-stop-renters-paying-council-tax

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/03/labour-could-speed-up-plans-to-reveal-details-of-uk-property-owners

How this will go down in the country I'm not sure but I can predict what the Conservatives and Lib Dems reaction will be....

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7 minutes ago, skomer said:

Labour reveal future plans for property sector

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/104337/labour-could-stop-renters-paying-council-tax

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/03/labour-could-speed-up-plans-to-reveal-details-of-uk-property-owners

How this will go down in the country I'm not sure but I can predict what the Conservatives and Lib Dems reaction will be....

Well, they said inside the report that they want to engineer a soft landing by keeping house prices high but letting earnings creep up to soften affordability in 25 years. F*** that! Let the bubble pop!

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1 hour ago, Burbujista said:

Well, they said inside the report that they want to engineer a soft landing by keeping house prices high but letting earnings creep up to soften affordability in 25 years. F*** that! Let the bubble pop!

Yes, very weak stuff. Like proposing to abolish the Corn Laws but also keep food expensive by other means.

Pretty typical of modern politics though, spineless focus on management and implementation rather than values or objectives. Labour will take a kicking and deserve it because they have failed to set out a clear vision such as shifting the burden of taxation away from wages and onto land.

Probably the only way to sell a land value tax democratically is to promise that every £1 of land tax will fund £1 of basic income so that people don't feel they are losing out.

Edited by Dorkins

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Every 2 bob Tory / Kipper on Twitter fell hook line & sinker for Murdoch press headlines quoting the Tory housing minister & now think it's "a tax on gardens"

Labour thinks it acceptable to return affordability over 25 years having blown it out of the water 15 years ago = 2 entire generations completely screwed over with decades of unaffordable housing.

I think I might be done with this ******ing country.

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I personally feel very positively towards this. It is what i would propose myself.  In historical terms, you could argue it isnt radical, sort of a return to the old domestic rates. However, it is a radical shift from where we are now, and have been since the poll tax/ and council tax(which is really a poll tax light) which were both deliberate attempts to move taxation off wealth. This is a conscious attempt to progressively tax wealth. 

Considering every government since john major have bottled something as routine as revaluating council tax bands, for fear of negative press, i think this policy is as far as any government hoping to get elected could go. 

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"

The policy idea is contained in a new report which calls on Labour to make a string of "radical but practical changes in the way land in the UK is used and governed" if it wins the next election.

It says a Labour government should make public all information about land ownership and control, urges the Bank of England to do more to cool the housing market, and says new 'Public Development Corporations' should have the power to buy, develop and sell land "in the public interest".

The report meanwhile urges a major shake-up of the property tax system in a bid to "discourage the use of homes as financial assets, reduce the tax paid by the majority of households, and encourage more efficient use of the housing stock".

"We recommend that a Labour government replace the regressive and unpopular council tax with a progressive property tax based on contemporary property values," it says."

 

Brilliant

1 minute ago, nothernsoul said:

I personally feel very positively towards this. It is what i would propose myself.  In historical terms, you could argue it isnt radical, sort of a return to the old domestic rates. However, it is a radical shift from where we are now, and have been since the poll tax/ and council tax(which is really a poll tax light) which were both deliberate attempts to move taxation off wealth. This is a conscious attempt to progressively tax wealth. 

Considering every government since john major have bottled something as routine as revaluating council tax bands, for fear of negative press, i think this policy is as far as any government hoping to get elected could go. 

It's not particularly left wing. James Brokenshire is attacking it saying it will deny home ownership to future generations. How ???

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The council tax plan is not a bad idea. I think property taxes are paid by the owners of property in most countries.

But Labour are right to point out land laws are feudal and the land system broken. It is wrong that farmers can get £ms of taxpayers' money for land worth no more than £10K an acre as agricultural land. If I was a farmer, I'd be on the council trying to get my land 'acquired'.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/04/tackle-inequality-land-ownership-laws

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13 minutes ago, Si1 said:

It's not particularly left wing. James Brokenshire is attacking it saying it will deny home ownership to future generations. How ???

It is kind of left wing, but land and housing is government-controlled already - it just currently benefits the rich.

As for the BoE cooling the housing market, they are deliberately doing the opposite. QE is a policy for inflating house prices.

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The good thing about this is in terms of implementation is it isnt particularly radical(the poll tax was very radical, taking tax off all domestic property, which would probably be the first time ever since pre feudal times). You can point out that the USA manages fine with such a system, as we did under the old domestic rates(i know this system wasnt perfect). Even so, the press will paint it as communism.

Ironically, we already have a tax linked to the value of property,that should be abolished, business rates. Which is not only an unfair tax, but damages entrepreneurial activity.  

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6 hours ago, Si1 said:

James Brokenshire is attacking it saying it will deny home ownership to future generations. How ???

The Tories have given up making economic arguments, nowadays they just chant lines designed to trigger their supporters.

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5 hours ago, nothernsoul said:

Ironically, we already have a tax linked to the value of property,that should be abolished, business rates. Which is not only an unfair tax, but damages entrepreneurial activity.  

Every £ that is taken off rates is a £ that commercial landlords will add to the rent.

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On ‎04‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 11:19, disenfranchised said:

Every 2 bob Tory / Kipper on Twitter fell hook line & sinker for Murdoch press headlines quoting the Tory housing minister & now think it's "a tax on gardens"

Labour thinks it acceptable to return affordability over 25 years having blown it out of the water 15 years ago = 2 entire generations completely screwed over with decades of unaffordable housing.

I think I might be done with this ******ing country.

Just give a tax a scary name and its enough to sink it...

Community Charge - POLL TAX

Welfare Reform Act 2012 - BEDROOM TAX

Adult social care reform - DEMENTIA TAX

Minor VAT exemption reform - PASTY TAX

 

and now we have the GARDEN TAX...!  Its as good as dead.

 

Edited by Wayward

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17 hours ago, Dorkins said:

Every £ that is taken off rates is a £ that commercial landlords will add to the rent.

Perhaps - depends on the local supply and demand dynamics.

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4 minutes ago, Wayward said:

and now we have the GARDEN TAX...!  Its as good as dead.

It's dumb politics by Labour. I think the only way to sell a land value tax is to say that every pound raised from LVT will provide a pound of basic income for all citizens, otherwise people will assume that this is a way to increase taxation overall.

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On ‎04‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 12:46, Si1 said:

We recommend that a Labour government replace the regressive and unpopular council tax with a progressive property tax based on contemporary property values," it says."

It would be good to see a tax on current property value targeted at owners rather than occupiers if only to take the smile off smug owners boasting at dinner parties about how much their house had increased in value.  If this meant a painful additional tax burden on them and removed from tax burden on labour then great.

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4 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

It's dumb politics by Labour. I think the only way to sell a land value tax is to say that every pound raised from LVT will provide a pound of basic income for all citizens, otherwise people will assume that this is a way to increase taxation overall.

Why basic income for all 'citizens'...?  Why not simply less tax on labour..?

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On ‎04‎/‎06‎/‎2019 at 11:19, disenfranchised said:

Labour thinks it acceptable to return affordability over 25 years having blown it out of the water 15 years ago = 2 entire generations completely screwed over with decades of unaffordable housing

It is very weak.  Labour are part of the problem not the solution.

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On 04/06/2019 at 12:46, Si1 said:

"

The policy idea is contained in a new report which calls on Labour to make a string of "radical but practical changes in the way land in the UK is used and governed" if it wins the next election.

It says a Labour government should make public all information about land ownership and control, urges the Bank of England to do more to cool the housing market, and says new 'Public Development Corporations' should have the power to buy, develop and sell land "in the public interest".

The report meanwhile urges a major shake-up of the property tax system in a bid to "discourage the use of homes as financial assets, reduce the tax paid by the majority of households, and encourage more efficient use of the housing stock".

"We recommend that a Labour government replace the regressive and unpopular council tax with a progressive property tax based on contemporary property values," it says."

 

Brilliant

It's not particularly left wing. James Brokenshire is attacking it saying it will deny home ownership to future generations. How ???

It wont.

It will however have profound impacts and improve efficiency.

For example I work in a honeypot location.

I am probably a top x% earner around here (low wages so does not take a lot TBF)

The houses rent for 800/1000£ per month (discounting holiday lets) but cost 500-700,000£

The occupants are often retired and have much more space then they need.

I do not doubt that with a LTV or similar they will probably downsize and as I as a worker would benefit as i would then pay less to them to buy but more to the government.

The issue with it from a Labour party POV is that immediately the 30-40% of prices which is  "investment" would crater within a few years and the tax would then not bring in the required money.

I dont like paying tax but i can tell you as a commercial property owner if business rates where not as they are lots of zombie businesses would clog up prime locations and the clearing effect would reduce.  The money would then just go to landlords/speculators.

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19 hours ago, Wayward said:

Just give a tax a scary name and its enough to sink it...

Community Charge - POLL TAX

Welfare Reform Act 2012 - BEDROOM TAX

Adult social care reform - DEMENTIA TAX

Minor VAT exemption reform - PASTY TAX

 

and now we have the GARDEN TAX...!  Its as good as dead.

 

The Tories are proposing a ***** tax, which will tax you PER INCH.

They’re calling it a POLE tax. 

Edited by BorrowToLeech

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19 hours ago, Wayward said:

Just give a tax a scary name and its enough to sink it...

Community Charge - POLL TAX

Welfare Reform Act 2012 - BEDROOM TAX

Adult social care reform - DEMENTIA TAX

Minor VAT exemption reform - PASTY TAX

 

and now we have the GARDEN TAX...!  Its as good as dead.

 

The bedroom tax still exists doesn't it?

And the S21 Alice in Wonderland tax is still going strong too....

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I've got a feeling the 'garden tax' meme might backfire when they realise how many under 45 voters with or without families will never own a garden.

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21 minutes ago, Si1 said:

I've got a feeling the 'garden tax' meme might backfire when they realise how many under 45 voters with or without families will never own a garden.

Most people will see their tax cut under this plan in the midlands and north. It’s inner London and rich areas of the south east that will pay more due to differential changes in values since 1991.

The biggest losers will be the likes of those oligarchs who own £70million flats at One Hyde park - some of whom now are only paying a pittance of £1200 a year in council tax. And those flats have no gardens but balconies.

Shame Labour botched the launch and produced no numbers to prove that. People as ever fall for the BS and believe they would all pay more when most would actually pay less under the plans! 

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21 minutes ago, MARTINX9 said:

Most people will see their tax cut under this plan in the midlands and north. It’s inner London and rich areas of the south east that will pay more due to differential changes in values since 1991.

The biggest losers will be the likes of those oligarchs who own £70million flats at One Hyde park - some of whom now are only paying a pittance of £1200 a year in council tax. And those flats have no gardens but balconies.

Shame Labour botched the launch and produced no numbers to prove that. People as ever fall for the BS and believe they would all pay more when most would actually pay less under the plans! 

I'm not sure many people have taken notice of this publication from Labour yet. You'd also have to see what ends up in their manifesto.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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      • up 5%



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