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Spindler

Here we go.. here we go... here we go(or not)...Boomer style

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https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-7000947/Downsizing-pensioners-one-stamp-duty-free-says-Saga.html

Using Breaking Bad as an example....their ill gotten loot was subject to a commission for the fence to launder it...

Boomers don't even want to pay one lot of Stamp Duty on a smaller home......on their ill gotten gains...can this generation actually get any more greedy and selfish ?

I'm afraid yes they probably can !

And Saga= Vested interest in one demographic group

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17 minutes ago, Spindler said:

Boomers don't even want to pay one lot of Stamp Duty on a smaller home......on their ill gotten gains...can this generation actually get any more greedy and selfish ?

They keep on floating this idea - hopefully it won't gain any traction. I'm with you; I think this is one of the single most selfish and disgusting ideas yet from this generation, given that, almost without exception, potential down-sizers will be sitting on hundreds of thousands of untaxed, unearned gains. I also don't believe that 25% of boomers are refusing to downsize because of stamp duty, although perhaps it does come as something of a shock to them to realise just how much the rest of us are supposed to pay - especially since their potential stamp duty bill is likely more than they paid for the house they are downsizing from.

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Anecdotal: My neighbours are all old boomers. These houses are their step one 'downsize' homes - 2 - 4 bed places more manageable than the 5 - 7 bed mansions they bought for pennies in the 60s. One is registered blind and agreed to sell her 4 bed but pulled out last minute because she got scared of the change. One of the neighbours hit a 100, sold up and promptly died. 

One old guy keeps his heating on all the time because he can't be bothered to work out the thermostat. 

Another 80 year old told me she'd lived too long (also has a 4 bed). 

Whatever the stamp duty they aren't leaving unless they have to. They bought these places to die in. They've led golden lives blessed with every improvement and stonking pensions and aren't about to start compromising now. Compromising is for young people. 

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Yep, my 1950s-born parents were complaining a couple of weeks ago about not wanting to move because of stamp duty. They bought their main family home at the bottom in the mid-90s.

I do think stamp duty is a bad tax as it kills transactions but no way should there be a special loophole created just for old people. If it's a bad tax cut it for everybody.

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5 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Anecdotal: My neighbours are all old boomers. These houses are their step one 'downsize' homes - 2 - 4 bed places more manageable than the 5 - 7 bed mansions they bought for pennies in the 60s. One is registered blind and agreed to sell her 4 bed but pulled out last minute because she got scared of the change. One of the neighbours hit a 100, sold up and promptly died. 

One old guy keeps his heating on all the time because he can't be bothered to work out the thermostat. 

Another 80 year old told me she'd lived too long (also has a 4 bed). 

Whatever the stamp duty they aren't leaving unless they have to. They bought these places to die in. They've led golden lives blessed with every improvement and stonking pensions and aren't about to start compromising now. Compromising is for young people. 

Rights and wrongs aside you have all your dates mixed up - unless they where child prodigies these people aren’t boomers 

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9 hours ago, Dorkins said:

I do think stamp duty is a bad tax as it kills transactions but no way should there be a special loophole created just for old people. If it's a bad tax cut it for everybody.

This, this and this. Stamp duty is a bad tax. End of story

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stamp duty is and always has been a bad tax....think on this we actually need it to be kept inplace for now...if it was removed it would be stimulus for the market....

I bought in 92 and they had suspended Stamp duty....thats how bad the crash was....

I do think it should be gotten rid of for good ...in a couple of years...not now...as HTB ignited the market...so would removal of SD now....not a major flare up but it would be stimulus

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11 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Anecdotal: My neighbours are all old boomers. These houses are their step one 'downsize' homes - 2 - 4 bed places more manageable than the 5 - 7 bed mansions they bought for pennies in the 60s. One is registered blind and agreed to sell her 4 bed but pulled out last minute because she got scared of the change. One of the neighbours hit a 100, sold up and promptly died. 

One old guy keeps his heating on all the time because he can't be bothered to work out the thermostat. 

Another 80 year old told me she'd lived too long (also has a 4 bed). 

Whatever the stamp duty they aren't leaving unless they have to. They bought these places to die in. They've led golden lives blessed with every improvement and stonking pensions and aren't about to start compromising now. Compromising is for young people. 

Such vitriol!

I can't think of anyone I know of who fits the 'boomer' classification who lived in a 7 bed mansion. That's just hyperbole surely?

Who is going to live in these mansions if they do sell up anyway? They'll probably be turned into one bed flats as the population problem is only going one way. The developer might be a boomer, he might even be a millenial.

And to say people born in 1919 or 1939 have led 'golden lives'. Come on!

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19 minutes ago, Spindler said:

stamp duty is and always has been a bad tax....think on this we actually need it to be kept inplace for now...if it was removed it would be stimulus for the market....

I bought in 92 and they had suspended Stamp duty....thats how bad the crash was....

I do think it should be gotten rid of for good ...in a couple of years...not now...as HTB ignited the market...so would removal of SD now....not a major flare up but it would be stimulus

Transactions are needed for price discovery and there is the mother of all price discoveries coming up i.e. that people born from the late 1970s onwards can only afford to pay half of what houses currently cost.

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BTL exit should provide more transactions this hasnt really got started yet.....you can feel the panic among the leveraged BTL loons who havent quite got it yet.....its a perfect storm for multiple property holding(note i didnt say owning) debt junkies.....even the OO's who have bought into this since 2015 with big loans are going to be dragged into negative equity.....

Those BTL who have equity released to further buy have some CGT to pay on the way out.....if they try and stay they could lose everything.....i  think many are having trouble adjusting to this reality....

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1 hour ago, Freki said:

This, this and this. Stamp duty is a bad tax. End of story

It is a bad tax, but if you scrap it without replacing with some other property tax (.e.g LVT) then its essentially a bung to existing home owners at the expense of future buyers.

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Not got a problem with the tax, got a problem with the high cost of non investment housing, housing purchased by people to live in, who live and work and pay taxes in the area where they want to live......;)

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11 hours ago, Dorkins said:

Yep, my 1950s-born parents were complaining a couple of weeks ago about not wanting to move because of stamp duty. They bought their main family home at the bottom in the mid-90s.

I do think stamp duty is a bad tax as it kills transactions but no way should there be a special loophole created just for old people. If it's a bad tax cut it for everybody.

+1

46 minutes ago, winkie said:

Not got a problem with the tax, got a problem with the high cost of non investment housing, housing purchased by people to live in, who live and work and pay taxes in the area where they want to live......;)

Why should you pay tax when you move house?  I don't mind paying more tax than people who earn less than me or have a smaller house, or drive less or drink less etc.  However I would mind paying more tax because I move more.  (Actually I will never move because I hate the idea but it is the principle).

 

1 hour ago, goldbug9999 said:

It is a bad tax, but if you scrap it without replacing with some other property tax (.e.g LVT) then its essentially a bung to existing home owners at the expense of future buyers.

I think increasing property taxes to pay to get rid of stamp duty is a good idea.  I would say that the main victims of stamp duty are those who work in the removals industry, solicitors and estate agents.

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1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

Transactions are needed for price discovery and there is the mother of all price discoveries coming up i.e. that people born from the late 1970s onwards can only afford to pay half of what houses currently cost.

Sadly where I live the deposit is a lot more than twice it was before Blair.  A friend of mine recently told me that he was thinking of buying but he only has £60k deposit - a scary thing to say.

Edited by iamnumerate

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I'm never sure what type of properties these people are expected to "downsize" to.

If it's 2 or 3 bedroom houses then all the decent ones have been bought by BTL

If it's flats then all the decent ones have been bought by BTL

If it's bungalows then they are like hen's teeth and have other oldies living until they die in them.

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2 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I'm never sure what type of properties these people are expected to "downsize" to.

If it's 2 or 3 bedroom houses then all the decent ones have been bought by BTL

If it's flats then all the decent ones have been bought by BTL

If it's bungalows then they are like hen's teeth and have other oldies living until they die in them.

Good point

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1 minute ago, iamnumerate said:

Good point

Thanks

Although I should add that they are the most likely ones to be the BTL in question, so I'm not defending them.   And the irony is they can't move into their own BTL flat because chances are it's the sort of place they don't want to live - but they are happy for someone else to have to.

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1 hour ago, goldbug9999 said:

It is a bad tax, but if you scrap it without replacing with some other property tax (.e.g LVT) then its essentially a bung to existing home owners at the expense of future buyers.

I don't really agree with that. FTB have usually an issue of capital and less an issue of income. SDLT brings an extra requirement of capital (cash on hand).

But yes, I would prefer if there was a 1% annual levy on the property value, it would encourage people to downsize.

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26 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Sadly where I live the deposit is a lot more than twice it was before Blair.  A friend of mine recently told me that he was thinking of buying but he only has £60k deposit - a scary thing to say.

Ha, that is nuts. If you had 2.5 years of the UK average salary saved up at pretty much any point WW2-2000 that would have near enough bought you a house, never mind a deposit.

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17 minutes ago, stop_the_craziness said:

I'm never sure what type of properties these people are expected to "downsize" to.

If it's 2 or 3 bedroom houses then all the decent ones have been bought by BTL

If it's flats then all the decent ones have been bought by BTL

If it's bungalows then they are like hen's teeth and have other oldies living until they die in them.

Agree. And it drives up prices at bottom end.

My experience of those who have downsized is they end up over paying for a smaller place and very little in the bank. 

One friend sold his 4 bed semi for £350k and bought a bungalow for £275k. However the bungalow was I a state and he end up spending most of his cash doing it up. 

Secret is not just to move into something smaller, but also move into something cheaper. 

8 minutes ago, Freki said:

I don't really agree with that. FTB have usually an issue of capital and less an issue of income. SDLT brings an extra requirement of capital (cash on hand).

But yes, I would prefer if there was a 1% annual levy on the property value, it would encourage people to downsize.

A 1% levy is a great idea but politically I can’t see it ever getting through. 

Ignore the boomer, the cases we would see in the paper are the war veteran aged 94 living in a modest £200k terrace now needs to find £2k a year from his £10k pension. Perhaps the paper can even find one legged (maybe blind for good measure) after a war injury. 

Ability to pay will always politically take precedence. 

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I know Saga is a pressure group for old people but at some point punching down has got to feel embarrassing, hasn't it? How much richer than the rest of us do over 50s need to be? No tax of any kind for pensioners, everything 90% off in the shops upon presentation of an OAP bus pass, all the schools closed and the army disbanded to fund quintuple-lock pensions?

When Ros Altmann was Saga's spokesman I remember she seemed a bit embarrassed about how much better her clients had it than everybody else and she often came out with more nuanced positions than "give all the moneys to old people".

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2 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

A 1% levy is a great idea but politically I can’t see it ever getting through. 

Ignore the boomer, the cases we would see in the paper are the war veteran aged 94 living in a modest £200k terrace now needs to find £2k a year from his £10k pension. Perhaps the paper can even find one legged (maybe blind for good measure) after a war injury. 

Ability to pay will always politically take precedence. 

Both council tax and stamp duty should be abolished simultaneously upon introduction of LVT, that would make it more palatable especially if you set it at a flat % rate which would mean most people paying less property tax per year than they do now while the minority of property rich would pay more.

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  • 312 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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