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PeanutButter

Social mobility in UK 'virtually stagnant' since 2014

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https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/apr/30/social-mobility-in-uk-virtually-stagnant-since-2014

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Inequality will remain entrenched in Britain “from birth to work” without urgent government action, the body charged with promoting social mobility has warned.

In its latest State Of The Nation report, the Social Mobility Commission said the situation had remained “virtually stagnant” since 2014.

It called on ministers to provide additional funding for older teenagers in education and to extend free childcare to more low-income families, in an effort to break down barriers.

The findings will come as a further setback to Theresa May, who entered Downing Street in 2016 promising to tackle the “burning injustice” of social inequality.

The report is the first since new commissioners were appointed last year following the mass resignation of their predecessors led by former Labour cabinet minister Alan Milburn. In his resignation letter he said that May was failing in her pledge to build a “fairer Britain”.

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Trump Invective said:

Tories - if you work hard you'll erm get nowhere

Same's true with Labour. For both people who work hard are there to be exploited to give handouts to their chosen. There are possibly some subtle differences between who some of their chosen are.

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So, 10 years after opening up the UK to millions EEers - and subbing them via tax credits - the outcome is that entry level jobs have been destroyed.

Wow... who could have predicted that?

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Trump Invective said:

Tories - if you work hard you'll erm get nowhere

Basically. But thanks anyway 

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48103017

 

From the BBC article...

the report recommends...

a "significant increase" in funding for all 16 to 19-year-olds in education, with a special "student premium" for the disadvantaged

They just don't get it do they...?  Restricted housing supply and increasing occupational demand through high net immigration has created conditions of scarcity and as such we are all competing with each other over inadequate stock.  Increased education and productivity will NOT all translate into better standards of living.  In order to win the bidding for shelter (either rent or buy)  this additional productivity will go into higher rents and prices and we will work harder for nothing.  Only the possessing classes benefit as they collect more rents and enjoy higher sale prices for their assets.

Now back to work.

 

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1 minute ago, PeanutButter said:

Are you socially mobile?

I have risen slightly above parents level, probably due to education. 

Messy for me but overall I've dropped like a stone! Too much education not enough employment/wonga

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17 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Are you socially mobile?

I have risen slightly above parents level, probably due to education. 

Below my dad's I suppose. Not terribly interested in advancing my social level though.

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Quote

 

"There's still a big shift - if you want to be socially mobile - towards London," she told BBC Radio Four's Today programme.

"I think you're three times more likely to move to London if you're from a professional background than if you're from a working class background."

 

Hmm...so basically the answer to social mobility is "move to London" and the big problem for the working class is they find it more difficult to move to London?!

There's so much wrong with that it's hard to know how to start.

Much like the solution to improving living standards for Eastern Europeans is NOT to cut and paste millions of them into the UK, so the solution to improving living standards for the working class outside London is NOT to try and encourage more of them to move to London.  Instead, we need to be re-invigorating industries of all types in all parts of the country, not trying to get kids from the North to join a bank in London.

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2 hours ago, Wayward said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48103017

 

From the BBC article...

the report recommends...

a "significant increase" in funding for all 16 to 19-year-olds in education, with a special "student premium" for the disadvantaged

They just don't get it do they...?  Restricted housing supply and increasing occupational demand through high net immigration has created conditions of scarcity and as such we are all competing with each other over inadequate stock.  Increased education and productivity will NOT all translate into better standards of living.  In order to win the bidding for shelter (either rent or buy)  this additional productivity will go into higher rents and prices and we will work harder for nothing.  Only the possessing classes benefit as they collect more rents and enjoy higher sale prices for their assets.

Now back to work.

 

Very wrong.

As the figures on their Return form degree shows, post 16 education does not  improve much, when a lot of He has no market value.

In fact, factor in lost earnings (16-22 spend in education) + cost of HE tuition and living costs (~60k, paid via the 10% levy) than ~60% of grads have wasted their time.

Best way to improve social mobility is thru benefit and migration reforms.

Move to contribution based welfare, which will stop the money sinks taking working people wages.

Set a minimum PAYE income of 30k for any non Brit wanting to work in UK.

Total ban on non Brits claimign benefits cash or services.

.

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46 minutes ago, spyguy said:

 

As the figures on their Return form degree shows, post 16 education does not  improve much, when a lot of He has no market value.

In fact, factor in lost earnings (16-22 spend in education) + cost of HE tuition and living costs (~60k, paid via the 10% levy) than ~60% of grads have wasted their time.

 

FE is 16-18 and HE is 18+, generally.

The FE sector gets lower funding per head than the schools or universities/HE sector. It's arguably more valuable than either as it gets people things like A levels, diploma level finance, IT, catering, services or engineering quals and apprenticeships. It's the area where non academic kids can go into trades and academic ones can get A levels and start looking at White collar specialisms. But it isn't the same as HE.

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5 hours ago, spyguy said:

Very wrong.

As the figures on their Return form degree shows, post 16 education does not  improve much, when a lot of He has no market value.

In fact, factor in lost earnings (16-22 spend in education) + cost of HE tuition and living costs (~60k, paid via the 10% levy) than ~60% of grads have wasted their time.

Best way to improve social mobility is thru benefit and migration reforms.

Move to contribution based welfare, which will stop the money sinks taking working people wages.

Set a minimum PAYE income of 30k for any non Brit wanting to work in UK.

Total ban on non Brits claimign benefits cash or services.

.

My point was not really about the quality of HE in the UK. My point is that the competitive bidding for housing means productivity gains are captured by those that own and control the housing stock.

Edited by Wayward

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17 hours ago, spyguy said:

Very wrong.

As the figures on their Return form degree shows, post 16 education does not  improve much, when a lot of He has no market value.

In fact, factor in lost earnings (16-22 spend in education) + cost of HE tuition and living costs (~60k, paid via the 10% levy) than ~60% of grads have wasted their time.

Best way to improve social mobility is thru benefit and migration reforms.

Move to contribution based welfare, which will stop the money sinks taking working people wages.

Set a minimum PAYE income of 30k for any non Brit wanting to work in UK.

Total ban on non Brits claimign benefits cash or services.

.

I agree 100%

Why are you not in parliment?

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17 hours ago, Si1 said:

FE is 16-18 and HE is 18+, generally.

The FE sector gets lower funding per head than the schools or universities/HE sector. It's arguably more valuable than either as it gets people things like A levels, diploma level finance, IT, catering, services or engineering quals and apprenticeships. It's the area where non academic kids can go into trades and academic ones can get A levels and start looking at White collar specialisms. But it isn't the same as HE.

Sort of.

FE has changed since I was 16-18.

Back ten it was 16-19 educaton wit ha vocational bent.

Then, as the large nubmer of vocation training - typists/secretarial is the main one that comes to mind - died away, FE started to offer GCSE resits.

Then. to get more money, they started accepting under 16 who would not go to main stream school - the whole 'equivalent to 5 gcse scam for hairdressing courses'

Then they start accepting the excluded from schools. Then those forced to stay for another 2 years by Brown, despite not learning much in the previous 11 years.

Then, depending on the leadership, trying to become a University and what not.

These days, the only people who seem to go to FE tend to people who are not interested in education or working.

And the people who dont go to FE are the people it was designed for - 16yo looking to acutal vocational education.

What FE college should offer are:

- work based skills, ideally whilst the 16yo is actually working.

- a small number of core gcses.

- nightschool offering core gcses and a levels.

Of course that would involved laying off ~80% of the people employed in FE.

 

Leeds college of building is the best example i can think of what FE should be.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, spyguy said:

Sort of.

FE has changed since I was 16-18.

Back ten it was 16-19 educaton wit ha vocational bent.

Then, as the large nubmer of vocation training - typists/secretarial is the main one that comes to mind - died away, FE started to offer GCSE resits.

Then. to get more money, they started accepting under 16 who would not go to main stream school - the whole 'equivalent to 5 gcse scam for hairdressing courses'

Then they start accepting the excluded from schools. Then those forced to stay for another 2 years by Brown, despite not learning much in the previous 11 years.

Then, depending on the leadership, trying to become a University and what not.

These days, the only people who seem to go to FE tend to people who are not interested in education or working.

And the people who dont go to FE are the people it was designed for - 16yo looking to acutal vocational education.

What FE college should offer are:

- work based skills, ideally whilst the 16yo is actually working.

- a small number of core gcses.

- nightschool offering core gcses and a levels.

Of course that would involved laying off ~80% of the people employed in FE.

 

Leeds college of building is the best example i can think of what FE should be.

 

 

 

Technical courses seem to be expanding in the FE sector. Not least because they're cash cows but also employable. 

 

https://www.utcleeds.co.uk

 

 

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On 30/04/2019 at 11:12, spyguy said:

So, 10 years after opening up the UK to millions EEers - and subbing them via tax credits - the outcome is that entry level jobs have been destroyed.

Wow... who could have predicted that?

 

 

I seem to remember at the time there was a bigger concern that businesses would decamp and move eastwards than what happened.  The rule of unintended consequences applies surely?

EEs also moved to other European countries where tax credits don't exist too don't forget.

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25 minutes ago, nightowl said:

I seem to remember at the time there was a bigger concern that businesses would decamp and move eastwards than what happened.  The rule of unintended consequences applies surely?

EEs also moved to other European countries where tax credits don't exist too don't forget.

Why FFS?

70% of the UK economy is consumtion.

Pure fckheaded scaremongering.

The UK is hosting the majority of EEs.

Look at the balance between UKers in European countries. and EUers in the UK.

No country comes close to the UK; most run large population deficits with the UK.

There would have been riots without the UK accepting Spanish, Portguese and italians under 40s.

Europe does not appreciate how much the uK has bailed out their economies by having ~10m EUers turn up to the UK and draw benefits.

 

 

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Why? A lot of production had gone to China so at the time there was a concern the remaining production left would head to Eastern Europe for lower costs. 

Yes we host loads of EEs but I doubt that was the sole 'intention' of open trade & FOM. Maybe I credit TPTB with even less intelligence!

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  • 296 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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