PeanutButter Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Start a new business: Child size pollution masks! But sure, let's keep piling more humans and more cars onto the planet That'll fix everything. (And don't forget to riot if the diesel bill goes up). https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/apr/10/vehicle-pollution-results-in-4m-child-asthma-cases-a-year Quote Four million children develop asthma every year as a result of air pollution from cars and trucks, equivalent to 11,000 new cases a day, a landmark study has found. Most of the new cases occur in places where pollution levels are already below the World Health Organization limit, suggesting toxic air is even more harmful than thought. The damage to children’s health is not limited to China and India, where pollution levels are particularly high. In UK and Australian cities, the researchers blame traffic pollution for three-quarters of all new childhood asthma cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 And yet air quality has been an upward trend for years. As much as I'm all for fewer people and fewer cars this really does sound like the latest drum to bang and little more. Most of the cases are occurring in places with lower pollution levels than the limits? No, that doesn't suggest that it's more harmful than previously thought otherwise the places with higher levels of pollution would have even more. It suggests something else is going on. The quoted text at any rate reads very, very much that someone's decided what their conclusion is going to be in advance and is damned well going to stick with it no matter what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted April 12, 2019 Author Share Posted April 12, 2019 23 hours ago, Riedquat said: And yet air quality has been an upward trend for years. As much as I'm all for fewer people and fewer cars this really does sound like the latest drum to bang and little more. Most of the cases are occurring in places with lower pollution levels than the limits? No, that doesn't suggest that it's more harmful than previously thought otherwise the places with higher levels of pollution would have even more. It suggests something else is going on. The quoted text at any rate reads very, very much that someone's decided what their conclusion is going to be in advance and is damned well going to stick with it no matter what. Please can you add links to the studies showing either that there is no problem (and it's all made up/faked) or to alternative reasons for stunted lungs and childhood asthma increases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Sorry, reality doesn't work like that. Questions raised about a study or report are not invalid unless supported by one that says something to the contrary. No-one's under some strange obligation to accept anything at face value just because it's the only thing someone's said. You're hunting for weak excuses to ignore doubts there (as well as asking to prove a negative). Questioning the reasoning behind the conclusion "most of the new cases occur in places where pollution levels are already below the World Health Organization limit, suggesting toxic air is even more harmful than thought," does not require contrary evidence because (unless it's far better explained in the detail not quoted) the problem is with the flawed logic of that statement. That statement is explicitly stating that there is not a good correlation between pollution levels and new cases yet then goes on to claim the cause is pollution. Of course correlation and causation do not have to be linked but the lack of a link is even less evidence. Your request for evidence to the contrary is thus irrelevant because there's no valid evidence and conclusions to contradict. Your requests are also for claims that I've not made, and are thus a strawman. It is the reasoning that's at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mspL4 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Don't "They" usually put all these scare stories out just before raising the Tax? As if stealing more money from people to carry on regardless will make things all of a sudden better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkG Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Probably the same old garbage. The UK 'studies' I've seen were typically based on self-reported asthma cases and not cases those verified by a doctor, and the rise in supposed asthma was primarily in areas with little air pollution. So if Little Bobby in rural Cheshire has a cough and Mommy decides he has asthma, it goes in the study data. That said, China has appalling air pollution and I'm sure it is contributing to asthma there, but I don't think much of it is from vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronyx Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Oh good it's another one of these threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 22:38, MarkG said: Probably the same old garbage. The UK 'studies' I've seen were typically based on self-reported asthma cases and not cases those verified by a doctor, and the rise in supposed asthma was primarily in areas with little air pollution. Which according to the originally posted snippet demonstrates that it's even more of a problem than thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 'Location, location, lung disease': pollution ads target property market Citizen-funded campaign to flag up illegal levels of toxic air to London buyers and renters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/01/location-location-lung-disease-pollution-ads-target-property-market?CMP=share_btn_tw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 On 01/05/2019 at 08:22, Saving For a Space Ship said: 'Location, location, lung disease': pollution ads target property market Citizen-funded campaign to flag up illegal levels of toxic air to London buyers and renters https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/may/01/location-location-lung-disease-pollution-ads-target-property-market?CMP=share_btn_tw Well this would certainly impact prices! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 On 29/04/2019 at 09:47, chronyx said: Oh good it's another one of these threads Oh good it's another one of these comments that extends the life of the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted May 7, 2019 Author Share Posted May 7, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 22:38, MarkG said: Probably the same old garbage. The UK 'studies' I've seen were typically based on self-reported asthma cases and not cases those verified by a doctor, and the rise in supposed asthma was primarily in areas with little air pollution. So if Little Bobby in rural Cheshire has a cough and Mommy decides he has asthma, it goes in the study data. That said, China has appalling air pollution and I'm sure it is contributing to asthma there, but I don't think much of it is from vehicles. What's it from then Prof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Posted May 7, 2019 Share Posted May 7, 2019 https://statistics.blf.org.uk/asthma Too much to quote, as i'll end up copying the whole page but a couple of interesting quotes Our data also confirm that the number of people who have had a diagnosis of asthma is plateauing. There has only been a small increase of under 3% in recent years. However, asthma is still the most common lung condition by a considerable margin. Around 160,000 people a year receive an asthma diagnosis. This is more than are diagnosed with any other lung condition. However, incidence rates went down by around 10% between 2008 and 2012. We need further research to understand why. Possible reasons include: Asthma is becoming less common. Conditions like COPD are becoming less likely to be misdiagnosed as asthma. Better diagnosis has reduced the backlog of cases that failed to be diagnosed in the past. Consequently, only new cases are being diagnosed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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