hayder Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 its pretty much propotional representation by region. http://www.europarl.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/en/your-meps/european_elections/the_voting_system.html so there should be very few wasted votes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurlerontheditch Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 the votes are quite telling of the forum ...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 17 minutes ago, hurlerontheditch said: the votes are quite telling of the forum ...... I'm even sure it's particularly representative of the forum. A lot of posters don't post much on Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 On 10/04/2019 at 10:37, NoGo said: It is a pity that the Brexit outrage vote will be split across 2 parties. Having listened very carefully to a lot of both Batten and Farage, I think UKIP candidates will make better MEP's. The reason I say this is because with Ukip, they have anticipated the elections and already selected and screened their candidates, from people who have been members of the party. In an interview on LBC, Batten stated this, and also went on to say that Farage currently didnt really have a party (no memebrs), and no candidates. Although he had invited people to pay to be considered as a candidate. I think its more of an opportunity for self serving people after expenses, or people seeking notoriety to go with Farage. You could say its a moot point because the UKIP MEP's will be instructed to vote against everything the EU does and just obstruct it, but I feel that would happily represent me. And at least they have publicly stated this, so you know what you are getting if you vote for them. Not so sure about Nigels possee, yet to be assembled. What we dont want is more fuel for the f'ing Gaurdian continuing their campaign against people standing up for this cause, and digging in to their backgrounds and discrediting them for stuff that both parties should have discovered when selecting them. To be fair, also some of these people the Gaurdian claims are far right, have 100's of thousands of follwers on Youtube, , so I dont view them as a minority. The Gaurdian are responsible for both the other 2 senior (leaders?) of the Brexit party being dismissed for stuff they said years ago. Well done, at keeping your democracy safe Gaurds. As I said I think it is a real pity that Nigel has split the vote, and done a lot of damage to power of a cause that really he started. Had he stayed with Ukip, the poll above, would be 70% for Him and Batten, which is a message that needs to be sent. He said he had to leave due to the direction of UKIP regarding Islam. Yet both his cronies in his party have now been dismissed for anti islam social media posts. Shot himself in the foot. Stick to being a celeb I think. The interview with Batten I was talking about was on LBC where he was interviewed by leftie blinkered idiot, Matt Frei. Which is now all over Youtube and on UKIPS official channel. I will currently vote UKIP in every election. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwoWolves Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 On 10/04/2019 at 19:58, Ah-so said: If it will be a clear victory for Leave, then you have nothing to fear. Bring it on. Perhaps the 1.8% have changed their minds however, and I'm sure that you wouldn't want us to crash out potentially against the will of the majority. Nobody fears it but it would be a time-wasting exercise and we've had plenty of those. As far as I can tell more remain voters are pro-brexit now than the other way around, but mostly because they want democracy upheld more than their own way. Leaving isn't crashing anywhere, you read too much Guardian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 On 11/04/2019 at 09:05, NoGo said: I am not so sure. As I cited, the Newport by-election didnt reflect this (Labour still won), and also the Brexit party is not a party yet. It doesnt have any candidates or manifesto. I really think it should have made some progress since its 'launch'. I think there will be a lot of mud slinging between Ukip and the brexit party and the vote will be split, which will help the mainstream parties. If they want to get any MPs in parliament in the next GE, then they need to merge, which I cannot see happening. It is going to be difficult for any new party, to have a coherent presence in parliament, as they dont really have safe seets to get the key people in. They could end up with 1 or 2 MPs, not especially prominent, and I cant see that making a difference. The country will not be able to get behind a single party on either side. Nigels new party hasn't launched yet. He is launching by next week I think. They should do a deal to work together with UKIP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 (edited) On 11/04/2019 at 10:09, Kosmin said: No, this would mean the Brexit party wins in a landslide. The trouble is, not all leave voters are committed to leave about all other political considerations Perhaps not however due to the anger of the loss of our democracy I think many people are now putting brexit first above party politics as it is more important than party. I've always said this, if you have the EU in charge, then there is no point in even having a parliament anymore. The EU are the threat and the problem and we must first remove that problem by leaving fully and completely before anything else can be done politically in the UK. Labour, Tories, Lib Dems it's all irrelevant if we are ruled by the EU with further powers under the Mastricht treaty Edited April 12, 2019 by bear.getting.old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 56 minutes ago, bear.getting.old said: I've always said this, if you have the EU in charge, then there is no point in even having a parliament anymore. Do you mean there is a risk of the EU getting too many powers? (I am sympathetic to this view, but I don't know at what point that would happen) If it already has too many powers and our Parliament is pointless then it wouldn't be possible for us to leave by parliamentary means. So if we do leave then the EU wasn't too powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamnumerate Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 29 minutes ago, Kosmin said: Do you mean there is a risk of the EU getting too many powers? (I am sympathetic to this view, but I don't know at what point that would happen) If it already has too many powers and our Parliament is pointless then it wouldn't be possible for us to leave by parliamentary means. So if we do leave then the EU wasn't too powerful. Presumably if we don't leave then the EU is too powerful by that logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosmin Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 13 minutes ago, iamnumerate said: Presumably if we don't leave then the EU is too powerful by that logic? If it's too powerful to leave then it's pointless to try. Like Canute trying to hold back the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 (edited) On 11/04/2019 at 12:24, Captain Kirk said: No one is desperate. It's just a waste of time because leave would win by a landslide and the remainer establishment would continue to try and thwart Brexit. Actually if it was a landslide to leave then the remainer (or "remoaners") would have to STFU. As it is you have plenty of remainers who argue that firstly the majority was not big enough for such massive constitutional change and secondly that population demographics have now changed to the extent that remainers are the majority. A referendum would demolish these arguments and strengthen the case for leave. As it stands the majority for Leave is so small that a soft Brexit is the only reasonable option. Perhaps a Norway + BIABN. Edited April 13, 2019 by Ah-so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 Ironic, that everything the conservative party wanted to avoid, so offering up the referendum to avoid it has come to pass.....perhaps they wish they could go back in time to start again...... Pandora's box has opened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, winkie said: Ironic, that everything the conservative party wanted to avoid, so offering up the referendum to avoid it has come to pass.....perhaps they wish they could go back in time to start again...... Pandora's box has opened. Europe has led to the downfall of every conservative PM since Heath. The box has been open for a long time, but Cameron'sattempt to shut it really let the nasties out. A second referendum is the only way to bring closure of sorts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“Nasty Piece of work” Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 32 minutes ago, Ah-so said: A second referendum is the only way to bring closure of sorts. How would another go bring any sort of closure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2rocketman Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 The majority people I chat with across a wide spectrum cannot wait to vote for the Brexit Party. 1. To teach the establishment a lesson. 2. To make sure democracy is honoured in future. Conservatives will get destroyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habeas Domus Posted April 13, 2019 Share Posted April 13, 2019 I think a lot of people are just going to abstain as a protest, not least because whoever wins might only be in power for a few months, so it's hardly going to make a lot of difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 7 hours ago, Freezer? Best place for it said: How would another go bring any sort of closure? A clear majority for leave would bring it to a close. If it isn't, then we know that the country is too split for such radical constitutional change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear.getting.old Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 9 hours ago, Ah-so said: Europe has led to the downfall of every conservative PM since Heath. The box has been open for a long time, but Cameron'sattempt to shut it really let the nasties out. A second referendum is the only way to bring closure of sorts. A second referendum before they have actioned the decision made in the first? - closure? I don't think so, this will drag on and on and won't go away, if anything the case for leaving is stronger after the process was frustrated, and seeing how the EU behave recently, 'special place in hell' comments etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habeas Domus Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 8 hours ago, Freezer? Best place for it said: How would another go bring any sort of closure? By voting for an actual plan, even if it is one the majority of MPs don't agree with. Rather than voting for an amorphous idea of "leaving somehow" If the country votes for a concrete clear set of actions then it removes any possibility of MP's bypassing it - which of course is why the majority of MPs don't want such a second referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
“Nasty Piece of work” Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ah-so said: A clear majority for leave would bring it to a close. If it isn't, then we know that the country is too split for such radical constitutional change. What do you view as a “clear majority? If the 2nd go is pro-EU, I will like many become an anti-EU activist, and happily campaign for a third go, and what “radical constitional change” do you refer ? Edited April 14, 2019 by Freezer? Best place for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kirk Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 20 hours ago, Ah-so said: As it stands the majority for Leave is so small Not according to the polling on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 (edited) I'm deeply surprised people can't see through Farage. He's canny at cashing in on all of this. My vote goes to UKIP because they speak for me and are prepared to tackle social and cultural issues others unquestionably shut down - issues Farage refuses to address. Batten is surprisingly good, and carries a more sincere air than Farage. A cynic might argue Farage is an establishment stooge to a degree. But who knows? Edited April 14, 2019 by Orb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 10 hours ago, Freezer? Best place for it said: What do you view as a “clear majority? If the 2nd go is pro-EU, I will like many become an anti-EU activist, and happily campaign for a third go, and what “radical constitional change” do you refer ? Reversal of the 1972 Common Market Act and all the significant legislation we have had over the decades including the free movement of labour would seem pretty significant and constitutional. Given that referenda are fairly permanent things about serious issues, I would think a very clear majority would be needed. That may be 55% or 60% or perhaps >50% of those eligible to vote. The leave vote in the referendum secured none of these and with a new generation having turned 18 and quite a few deaths, the referendum would likely be remain if repeated. But even if it is 50.01% leave, that is not a serious mandate to leave that should in anyway be binding on parliament. And the 51.8% should not have been either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 5 hours ago, Captain Kirk said: Not according to the polling on this site. And polling on this site is unlikely to represent national feelings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kirk Posted April 14, 2019 Share Posted April 14, 2019 54 minutes ago, Ah-so said: And polling on this site is unlikely to represent national feelings. Why is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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