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'Outrageous' and 'disgusting': segregated playground sparks fury

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Apologies if I missed it, but I haven't seen a topic for this.

'Outrageous' and 'disgusting': segregated playground sparks fury

Quote

The government has joined widespread condemnation of developers who blocked children living in social housing from using the playground on a London development.

The Conservative housing minister, James Brokenshire, called the situation on the Baylis Old School site in Lambeth “outrageous”. He said the developers, Henley Homes, and the local council should immediately change the site.

There has been criticism from across the political spectrum, including from Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and the mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, after Guardian Cities revealed that Henley Homes changed the layout of the former school site, putting hedges and fences where the original approved plans showed gates, thereby blocking the social housing residents from using any of the shared spaces.

 

Edited by tomandlu

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It sounds bad but for example we remove the emotional aspect of a children's playground.

Its now a pool and gym and the community fees are stupid.... a facility that needs maintenance and H&S checks

Question...

Do the affordable units have to pay the silly fees (which can be hundreds a month)

if they dont should they have access to those facilities?

ps...I do not know anything about the story cited above.

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3 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said:

It sounds bad but for example we remove the emotional aspect of a children's playground.

Its now a pool and gym and the community fees are stupid.... a facility that needs maintenance and H&S checks

Erm, but that's now a completely different question isn't it?  Clearly anything with a fee you either pay the fee or you can't use it.

If you want an adult analogy, perhaps you could consider: if a development has a visitors' car park should there be one for the whole development or different ones for visitors to social housing and private housing units?

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What??!! Do you mean to say that some people are richer than others and enjoy privileges that others don't !!!..  Gosh.

This is a load of tosh...I would be pretty annoyed if I was one of the poor saps paying the nose bleed service charge for these facilities if due to some woolly headed thinking they allowed anybody to use those facilities?  What about the gym?  Can the adults from the social housing use the development gym?  Why not just let them into the house and sit on your sofa and empty your fridge.

There is a serious problem with inequality of wealth in the UK and particularly how house price inflation supports this but thick headed articles like this do not help.

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Low maintenance children's area - should be shared.

High maintenance adult/mixed area (ie pool, gym, concierge service) - no need to share. 

Fairly simple, I would have thought. 

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Some odd takes on this... I would note the following:

  1. The developer changed the layout from the approved plan to accomplish this
  2. Comparisons need to take proportionality into account
  3. Many of the 'rich' residents are campaigning to allow access

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1 minute ago, Wayward said:

What??!! Do you mean to say that some people are richer than others and enjoy privileges that others don't !!!..  Gosh.

This is a load of tosh...I would be pretty annoyed if I was one of the poor saps paying the nose bleed service charge for these facilities if due to some woolly headed thinking they allowed anybody to use those facilities?  What about the gym?  Can the adults from the social housing use the development gym?  Why not just let them into the house and sit on your sofa and empty your fridge.

There is a serious problem with inequality of wealth in the UK and particularly how house price inflation supports this but thick headed articles like this do not help.

Then don't buy in a mixed service development :D 

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If the expensive houses were sold on the basis that they have access to this garden on an exclusive basis, then what's the issue? The social housing people are just whining. Plenty of different things in life are segregated by wealth or specific contract. 

They are the sort of people who complain about First class being nearly empty on trains, when the rest of the train is standing room only. But they don't want to pay for an upgrade. They can't seem to understand that the whole point of First class is that it is mostly empty and keeps the plebs out.

Edited by Errol

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Conflating something adults do (buying tickets to go on a train service) with something children do (play in a neighbourhood together) is deliberately misleading. Anyway, it's already been noted that the rich people are complaining as much as the poor ones. 

I'm not sure how this country expects to have social cohesion when even children are segregated according to family finances. 'Oh no, that seesaw isn't for you little Johnny! You can watch Otto and Chloe through the fence.'

Everyone talks a good game about meritocracy but when it comes down to it the UK loves stratification and division. Can't feel superior unless someone else is made to feel inferior, innit. 

Edited by PeanutButter

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3 hours ago, Wayward said:

What??!! Do you mean to say that some people are richer than others and enjoy privileges that others don't !!!..  Gosh.

How much land value tax is being paid for exclusive use of the space that playground occupies right outside everybody's homes? Zero.

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53 minutes ago, Errol said:

They are the sort of people who complain about First class being nearly empty on trains, when the rest of the train is standing room only. But they don't want to pay for an upgrade. They can't seem to understand that the whole point of First class is that it is mostly empty and keeps the plebs out.

Good point, first class carriages on trains should also be abolished seeing as the taxpayer is the main one paying for that space to be carted about.

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2 hours ago, Dorkins said:

How much land value tax is being paid for exclusive use of the space that playground occupies right outside everybody's homes? Zero.

Rights to use the exclusive play area would have been reflected in the flat purchase price and maintenance costs passed through the service charge. LVT? Not sure why relevant here.

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8 minutes ago, Wayward said:

Rights to use the exclusive play area would have been reflected in the flat purchase price and maintenance costs passed through the service charge. LVT? Not sure why relevant here.

Originally the land that playground now sits on would have been commonwealth and anybody could have used it including children to play on. Now it is privately owned with a fence around it and locals are being told they cannot access it without paying a fee, even though no fee was paid to the commonwealth to take it into private ownership.

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The development is right next to a park which includes an adventure playground for the under 6s. Why exactly can't the kids play there?

I suppose living virtually rent free in many cases in central London just a few hundred yards from the Thames isn't enough? Anyone buying privately there would be paying £750k plus and probably £200 a month in service charges.

 

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4 hours ago, Errol said:

If the expensive houses were sold on the basis that they have access to this garden on an exclusive basis, then what's the issue?

that's a very big "if".

 

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1 hour ago, MARTINX9 said:

The development is right next to a park which includes an adventure playground for the under 6s. Why exactly can't the kids play there?

I suppose living virtually rent free in many cases in central London just a few hundred yards from the Thames isn't enough? Anyone buying privately there would be paying £750k plus and probably £200 a month in service charges.

 

+1

 

5 hours ago, Errol said:

If the expensive houses were sold on the basis that they have access to this garden on an exclusive basis, then what's the issue? The social housing people are just whining. Plenty of different things in life are segregated by wealth or specific contract. 

They are the sort of people who complain about First class being nearly empty on trains, when the rest of the train is standing room only. But they don't want to pay for an upgrade. They can't seem to understand that the whole point of First class is that it is mostly empty and keeps the plebs out.

Often when trains are very full first class is degsegregated (and they get a refund) FWIW I travel second class.

 

1 hour ago, Dorkins said:

Originally the land that playground now sits on would have been commonwealth and anybody could have used it including children to play on. Now it is privately owned with a fence around it and locals are being told they cannot access it without paying a fee, even though no fee was paid to the commonwealth to take it into private ownership.

Originally in Lambeth it was marshes and someone had to pay to drain it but I take your point.

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11 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

 

Often when trains are very full first class is degsegregated (and they get a refund) FWIW I travel second class.

 

Not on any of the NorthernRail trains I've ever been one (and I commute twice daily).

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22 minutes ago, dpg50000 said:

Not on any of the NorthernRail trains I've ever been one (and I commute twice daily).

Really South Eastern do it about once a fortnight, I think they are one of the best companies.

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19 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

I'm not sure how this country expects to have social cohesion 

It never has done and never will do. No human society ever has. People will always order and segregate themselves on class, wealth, type, race etc etc. Totally natural. Nothing you can do about it and it will always happen.

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2 hours ago, dpg50000 said:

Not on any of the NorthernRail trains I've ever been one (and I commute twice daily).

Do any Northern Rail trains have a first class? Even the few longer distance ones (e.g. the Settle-Carlisle line) didn't when I used to use it every now and then. Most of them are short distance commuter trains.

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17 hours ago, Dorkins said:

Originally the land that playground now sits on would have been commonwealth and anybody could have used it including children to play on. Now it is privately owned with a fence around it and locals are being told they cannot access it without paying a fee, even though no fee was paid to the commonwealth to take it into private ownership.

Yes okay but that applies to all rights over land including the rights you enjoy over your bedroom.  I do have some sympathy for the politics of the diggers and levellers etc in theory but this article is not about that.  The article is hysterical and unhelpful to the debate we should be having about wealth and power transfers occurring today in the real world- not in the 1600s.

 

Near where I live in mid Hants a lot of the green fields outside of town are pony paddocks (housing is prohibited).  Used by little girls from rich families to play horsies.  I will go with my young niece and nephew and take a photo of them being excluded and looking forlornly at the rich kids playing in the paddock.  I wonder if the local MP will express his disgust at the poor children being excluded.  I wonder if it will make the national press??

 

 

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9 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Do any Northern Rail trains have a first class? Even the few longer distance ones (e.g. the Settle-Carlisle line) didn't when I used to use it every now and then. Most of them are short distance commuter trains.

The 7:36 from Buckshaw ro Manchester Airport is 6 carriages every day (hooray!), 2 of which are first class (boo!). It's actually a Trans Penine train, but operated by Northern Rail.

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On 27/03/2019 at 13:30, PeanutButter said:

Then don't buy in a mixed service development :D 

Good. Abolish the legal requirement to mix in "social housing" then.

Edited by Locke

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On 28/03/2019 at 12:40, Wayward said:

Yes okay but that applies to all rights over land including the rights you enjoy over your bedroom.  I do have some sympathy for the politics of the diggers and levellers etc in theory but this article is not about that.  The article is hysterical and unhelpful to the debate we should be having about wealth and power transfers occurring today in the real world- not in the 1600s.

 

Near where I live in mid Hants a lot of the green fields outside of town are pony paddocks (housing is prohibited).  Used by little girls from rich families to play horsies.  I will go with my young niece and nephew and take a photo of them being excluded and looking forlornly at the rich kids playing in the paddock.  I wonder if the local MP will express his disgust at the poor children being excluded.  I wonder if it will make the national press??

 

 

 

What about the poor children of people who aren't eligible for social housing in Lambeth - possibly because they work and pay their own way - so have to live miles from (central) London. How much do they suffer because of the time their parents spend working and commuting to central London so they can pay their huge mortgages and rent.

I - and many of them - would love to have a (virtually) rent free flat near the river in zone 1 - but I am not rich or poor enough to afford one! London has plenty of parks too.

 

Edited by MARTINX9

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