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Gazundering is back with a vengeance

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Anecdotally - colleague at work was gazumped, someone came in offering the full asking price after their offer below asking was accepted.  However the gazumper pulled out.  My colleague told the vendor in the circumstances they were reluctant to deal with them but decided to offer £10,000 less than their original accepted offer.  This lower offer was then accepted.  A sorry tale of greed and dishonourable conduct.

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13 minutes ago, Wayward said:

Anecdotally - colleague at work was gazumped, someone came in offering the full asking price after their offer below asking was accepted.  However the gazumper pulled out.  My colleague told the vendor in the circumstances they were reluctant to deal with them but decided to offer £10,000 less than their original accepted offer.  This lower offer was then accepted.  A sorry tale of greed and dishonourable conduct.

Brilliant, love it.

Gazumping and gazundering are both vile practices and it's good when the perpetrators get their comeuppance.

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1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

Brilliant, love it.

Gazumping and gazundering are both vile practices and it's good when the perpetrators get their comeuppance.

I would say that gazundering is acceptable if the surveyor says that the price is too much (and in many cases of course is the only thing you can do).

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1 hour ago, Bruce Banner said:

Brilliant, love it.

Gazumping and gazundering are both vile practices and it's good when the perpetrators get their comeuppance.

But advocated by lax British peasant laws. 

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1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

I would say that gazundering is acceptable if the surveyor says that the price is too much (and in many cases of course is the only thing you can do).

That wouldn't necessarily be gazundering if the offer was made "subject to survey".

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Chipping the price seems to be normal accepted practice in commercial real estate business. Friend of a friend works in that area and it's infuriating but expected. 

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I've always thought this was fine if prices are moving. If the transaction progresses from offer accepted to exchange in two or three moves it's unlikely there's been a significant move in the market, so you should just go ahead. Even if you thought maybe the prices had moved by a few percent, it's not worth jeopardising the deal, and perhaps it was favourable anyway. But if it's dragging on longer and prices clearly have moved, should the buyer and seller both feel bound by the price agreed?

Have any of you bought or sold in a fast moving market and then had it drag on? What did you do?

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We made an offer that was accepted. The sale seemed to be proceeding normally but the seller then began to stall. Prices were going up but it was a quiet time of the year in Bucks.

We spoke to the sellers who claimed that there were no problems or second thoughts. We visited them and took measurements and met the neighbours.  Then just before we due to exchange contracts we received an email their their EA to say that they wanted an extra £xx,xxx or they would put the house back on the market. They said that they had a family member who was a EA (not the same one) and this had been their advice.

We said "no" and they did put the house on the market again through the new EA their relative worked for. They did manage to sell and at got around half the amount extra they expected us to pay. It took an extra 6 months.

No regrets walking away. It was a nice house and I'm sure we would have been happy there at the original price accepted. There were things that needed to be done though.

Sales have stalled around us now and we may get a house we like even better now. No intention of gazzundering anyone.

Edited by Flopsy

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The law should change to discourage gazumping and gazundering or pulling out of an agreed sale without financial penalty before the exchange.

Yes there will always be exceptional circumstances, but it would focus some minds on actually selling and moving. 

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

The law should change to discourage gazumping and gazundering or pulling out of an agreed sale without financial penalty before the exchange.

Yes there will always be exceptional circumstances, but it would focus some minds on actually selling and moving. 

Agree, but with an expiry.  Its not fair on a buyer or seller if the chain takes months to finalise and the price has moved a lot.  It could be a year's salary.  Plus an expiry would act as motivator to assemble the chain and complete quickly.

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Gazundering is used when you realise youve offered too much in the first place. Im all for it as it helps lower these ridiculous prices.

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2 hours ago, hotblack42 said:

Agree, but with an expiry.  Its not fair on a buyer or seller if the chain takes months to finalise and the price has moved a lot.  It could be a year's salary.  Plus an expiry would act as motivator to assemble the chain and complete quickly.

Thats a good idea

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2 hours ago, simon49 said:

Gazundering is used when you realise youve offered too much in the first place. Im all for it as it helps lower these ridiculous prices.

I suppose Gazumping must be when you realise you have accidentally accepted too low a price. 

Both are shitty behaviour, and Gazundering comes with additional risks of retaliation from sellers who may consider you have stolen money off them. I vaguely remember an article about the inventive ways Gazundering victims have retaliated. 

With Gazumpers the best tactic is to string them along as possible and then either walk away, or at least reduce your offer to the original level. 

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About 15 years ago I was selling a property and accepted an offer of £130k (asking price was £135k) in a rapidly rising market. The buyer strung things out but I stuck with it...infact it was was of the few sales where I didn’t care if he backed out.

After 3¬†months the supposed cash buyer then needed finance. Again happy to stick with it and ‚Äėknew‚Äô the sale would proceed.¬†

After another month he the gazundered me and offered £125k. He also said he could not exchange for at least a month because he was on holiday.  

I told the agent NOT to reply. To remarket the property and see what happened. 

We accepted a new offer for £135k and exchanged before the month was up. 

It is the only time I have ever done that but when the first buyer came back he was furious. I told him myself that he had revoked his first offer and I was under no obligation to accept his second. 

I know of many examples of gazumoing or gazundering but this is the only one I have ever been involved with. When I was buying I was known for reliability. My offers were low....but they were the number I would stick to regardless of valuations or issues (except maybe if the property was so bad it was uninsurable). That reliability made me a lot of money because of several examples where agents rang me to step into a chain where someone had backed out.  

Definately agree we need to change something. There needs to be more commitment from both parties once the sale is agreed...with sensible get out clauses applying for 2/3 weeks. The sellers pack was a good idea but only in principal....buyers and sellers should get in with it and exchange within a few weeks if offer. It seems sometimes solicitors drag things out to justify a fee  

But the Scottish system isn’t great either. Buyers may have to pay for 10 valuations before buying....

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On 27/03/2019 at 13:41, Confusion of VIs said:

I suppose Gazumping must be when you realise you have accidentally accepted too low a price. 

Both are shitty behaviour, and Gazundering comes with additional risks of retaliation from sellers who may consider you have stolen money off them. I vaguely remember an article about the inventive ways Gazundering victims have retaliated. 

With Gazumpers the best tactic is to string them along as possible and then either walk away, or at least reduce your offer to the original level. 

Agreed - people really should stick to the original price once it's been agreed unless something unknown and pricey comes to light before completion.  Agree the price subject to a survey and be done with it.

Unfortunately, the law as it stands allows people to walk away, offer less or charge more at the last moment for any (or no) reason - often when the other party would have no choice but to accept the changed deal.  That makes the process a lot more fraught and subject to greedy sellers/ buyers than it should be.

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On ‚Äé27‚Äé/‚Äé03‚Äé/‚Äé2019 at 10:54, hotblack42 said:

Agree, but with an expiry.  Its not fair on a buyer or seller if the chain takes months to finalise and the price has moved a lot.  It could be a year's salary.  Plus an expiry would act as motivator to assemble the chain and complete quickly.

I wonder if this is necessary. It's a big risk to reduce your offer or demand more money if there's no justification. If the price hasn't moved, a gazump/underer is just gambling on the other side being desperate or not bothered about the extra amount.

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1 hour ago, Sour Mash said:

Agreed - people really should stick to the original price once it's been agreed unless something unknown and pricey comes to light before completion.  Agree the price subject to a survey and be done with it.

Unfortunately, the law as it stands allows people to walk away, offer less or charge more at the last moment for any (or no) reason - often when the other party would have no choice but to accept the changed deal.  That makes the process a lot more fraught and subject to greedy sellers/ buyers than it should be.

This happened to me where after 3 months and when contracts were ready to be exchanged my buyer decided to lower the price he was prepared to pay by quite a lot too.  I told him no and stuck to my guns on principle.  I had incurred expense by then on my purchase property and the whole chain collapsed as there was then no way I could have afforded to buy the next property without the original agreed sum. 

The only upside was that he would have lost out too plus the EA was quite peed off at having lost the sale.

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2 hours ago, janch said:

This happened to me where after 3 months and when contracts were ready to be exchanged my buyer decided to lower the price he was prepared to pay by quite a lot too.  I told him no and stuck to my guns on principle.  I had incurred expense by then on my purchase property and the whole chain collapsed as there was then no way I could have afforded to buy the next property without the original agreed sum. 

The only upside was that he would have lost out too plus the EA was quite peed off at having lost the sale.

Stating first: Good that you stuck to your guns.

Will also say, though, that people being gazundered have the option to pass the reduced price up the chain.

Of course no-one (in the chain) knows the situation of the "top" of the chain ... but I would expect a number of those are downsizers for and the price cut is to everyone else's advantage *except* the top end of the chain (and the banks, of course). Oh, and the flippers who are trying to make a quick buck.

Gazundering is often (almost always) a hugely manipulative behaviour - but then everyone transacting during these times is being manipulated.

The discussion about the number of people who have to stump up for a massively over priced house because the rest of their life is being messed up by renting ... seen so often it's getting dull.

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On 26/03/2019 at 16:02, PeanutButter said:

Chipping the price seems to be normal accepted practice in commercial real estate business. Friend of a friend works in that area and it's infuriating but expected. 

Purely depends on relative strength of market, offer, and vendor. In 2006 there was pretty much no chipping, as vendors knew prices were rising. Come 09, post Lehman and it was expected.

As your Friend says; it is common, and tends to be dealt with pragmatism 

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