stress for £8.75 an hour

[longgone]

https://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/search-jobs-in-Bracknell,-Berkshire,-United-Kingdom/FIRST-LINE-SERVICE-DESK-AGENT-CUSTOMER-SERVICE-FUJITSU-010AFB91C62B0AD6EE/?src=1D55B5A5B291337B

yes its basic but so what, £8.75 an hour ? are you not just better off being a potman with no headaches.  got this in my mailbox because i used to be SC cleared. 

[PeanutButter]

Sure but what's the progression likelihood for a potman? 

[longgone]

52 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

Sure but what's the progression likelihood for a potman? 

about the same as that job 

[PeanutButter]

Just now, longgone said:

about the same as that job 

What's the career ladder for someone pulling pints?

I've worked a call centre and I got promoted 3 times in 2 years. Loads of overtime, saved a good amount of money while I was there. Plus I didn't have to listen to old drunks droning on about the glory days on the off chance they'd drop 50p into a tip jar. 

[longgone]

10 minutes ago, PeanutButter said:

What's the career ladder for someone pulling pints?

I've worked a call centre and I got promoted 3 times in 2 years. Loads of overtime, saved a good amount of money while I was there. Plus I didn't have to listen to old drunks droning on about the glory days on the off chance they'd drop 50p into a tip jar. 

seen are few pot girls turn into pub managers. 

fujitsu is a horrible place to work 

[Arpeggio]

A job that goes up to £10.19 per hour after 6 months, located in Berkshire where the average house price is 422k.

[Mikhail Liebenstein]

On 08/03/2019 at 10:04, longgone said:

https://www.jobserve.com/gb/en/search-jobs-in-Bracknell,-Berkshire,-United-Kingdom/FIRST-LINE-SERVICE-DESK-AGENT-CUSTOMER-SERVICE-FUJITSU-010AFB91C62B0AD6EE/?src=1D55B5A5B291337B

yes its basic but so what, £8.75 an hour ? are you not just better off being a potman with no headaches.  got this in my mailbox because i used to be SC cleared. 

I’d apply and then laugh at them when the call you up.

[longgone]

On 08/03/2019 at 17:28, Ghostly said:

I've never heard the term 'potman' in relation to a pot washer. I couldn't decide if you couldn't spell postman or were suggesting selling drugs.

potman is an old term for glass collector ?

 

15 minutes ago, Mikhail Liebenstein said:

I’d apply and then laugh at them when the call you up.

Drive and determination

Tolerant

Excellent time management

Has a flexible approach and works well under pressure

 

 

i`d rather save my wifi bandwidth for more useful things ?

[burk]

Had something similar land in my inbox end of last week, a recruitment firm contacted me offering me a job application for a boat builder 20 miles up theroad from me that build multi-million pound yachts, the job was £9 - 14 an hour, 20 days holiday going upto 25 days after 5 years work.! When i put it through a salary calculator and made the relavant adjustments for time going there and coming back plus fuel costs i'd earn £1.50 an hour more stacking shelves in my local Lidl's.

And the best bit of the offer "must supply your own power tools & hand tools" for a job where i'd take home a basic after taxes and travel costs of about £350 a week when all's said and done. Christ any power tool i through a rock at in the back of my van costs more than what i'd earn a week, absolutely nuts, and what did the recruiter say to me?

"They've got plenty of vacancies you know", me: "er............. yeah - no shit" to be of a standard as a joiner /maker where you're making pieces of furniture befitting the interior of a multi-million pound yacht surely must pay more than stacking shelves in a supermarket and the supermarket job doesn't require £2000 quids worth of tools plus travel time and £70 a week on fuel getting there and back.

Must be a new paradigm?

 

 

[longgone]

16 minutes ago, burk said:

Had something similar land in my inbox end of last week, a recruitment firm contacted me offering me a job application for a boat builder 20 miles up theroad from me that build multi-million pound yachts, the job was £9 - 14 an hour, 20 days holiday going upto 25 days after 5 years work.! When i put it through a salary calculator and made the relavant adjustments for time going there and coming back plus fuel costs i'd earn £1.50 an hour more stacking shelves in my local Lidl's.

And the best bit of the offer "must supply your own power tools & hand tools" for a job where i'd take home a basic after taxes and travel costs of about £350 a week when all's said and done. Christ any power tool i through a rock at in the back of my van costs more than what i'd earn a week, absolutely nuts, and what did the recruiter say to me?

"They've got plenty of vacancies you know", me: "er............. yeah - no shit" to be of a standard as a joiner /maker where you're making pieces of furniture befitting the interior of a multi-million pound yacht surely must pay more than stacking shelves in a supermarket and the supermarket job doesn't require £2000 quids worth of tools plus travel time and £70 a week on fuel getting there and back.

Must be a new paradigm?

 

 

skilled or unskilled there is not much difference any more in some sectors. 

20 days holidays is laughable  i used to get 27 as standard after 1 year service now 25 seems to be the norm or 20 if you like a laugh. 

That`s why they just love unrestricted movement  if you don`t do it someone else will.  i actually despise this country now it has just turned into a big dump, Where only the multi millionaires are doing ok. 

i went to lidl yesterday and had the packing bags on the child seat and some immigrants in the shop took an interest inside the bag to see if anything was inside it, that`s what we have over here now.  

i am thinking about rigging up a wallet or purse that explodes ink when opened and leaving it in the trolley for our special friends to find. might make them think twice. ?

 

[burk]

I hear you LG. I've been looking for a bit more security on the job front for few years now (self employed joiner) and the rates to go on the cards are staggeringly bad, i charge myself out at £25 an hour, i'm pretty busy 9 -10 months of the year when you add it all up but i'm tired of chasing money down and after getting on for 25 years in the saddle my body's finally had enough. I guess i'll take the life i have now over 20 days off a year and a few hundred quid a week.

You're right though, if no Englishman does the job they'll sub it out to an EE or anyone who's willing to work for nothing - a good deal of my work as a joiner is clearing up the mess and putting right the **** up's made by the previous guy a result IMO of too many coming here and an out of control property market. One of my recent jobs was writing a snagging /fault report on a newly refurbished £1m house local to where i live, it ran to many pages of A4 literally dozens of faults and that was just taking care of finishes/general structure. 

When the owner asked what she'd be looking at to re mediate the problems i replied, "15% of whatever you paid for place" needless to say her partner went very pale in the face. Turns out they'd paid for a proper survey whatever that means in this day and age, apparently £1500 in her case and no one from the EA could furnish my blokes with a name, address or company who undertook the electrical & gas work on the property.

Transco came out the day my gas guy was there as we could both smell gas standing on the driveway, the Transco bloke in front of me asked the owner, "you two got somewhere to stay tonight?" "No, why?" came the reply. Transco guy: "i'm shutting your house down" and he did, then started breaking up the road in front of the drive to get to the gas pipe.

I'll post one pic, (i have literally hundreds of this job) here's the waste pipe from the master bathroom that's been clipped using what can only be described as polystyrene packaging blocks to the eves:

****** it here's another one, focal point of the lounge - the chimney breast:

 This is the new paradigm in house building, get it sold, take the money and run, this is the world we're in now? As i often say to prospective clients when they start coughing about my price, "you don't want a decent job, you want a cheap job - right?"

[longgone]

2 hours ago, burk said:

I hear you LG. I've been looking for a bit more security on the job front for few years now (self employed joiner) and the rates to go on the cards are staggeringly bad, i charge myself out at £25 an hour, i'm pretty busy 9 -10 months of the year when you add it all up but i'm tired of chasing money down and after getting on for 25 years in the saddle my body's finally had enough. I guess i'll take the life i have now over 20 days off a year and a few hundred quid a week.

You're right though, if no Englishman does the job they'll sub it out to an EE or anyone who's willing to work for nothing - a good deal of my work as a joiner is clearing up the mess and putting right the **** up's made by the previous guy a result IMO of too many coming here and an out of control property market. One of my recent jobs was writing a snagging /fault report on a newly refurbished £1m house local to where i live, it ran to many pages of A4 literally dozens of faults and that was just taking care of finishes/general structure. 

When the owner asked what she'd be looking at to re mediate the problems i replied, "15% of whatever you paid for place" needless to say her partner went very pale in the face. Turns out they'd paid for a proper survey whatever that means in this day and age, apparently £1500 in her case and no one from the EA could furnish my blokes with a name, address or company who undertook the electrical & gas work on the property.

Transco came out the day my gas guy was there as we could both smell gas standing on the driveway, the Transco bloke in front of me asked the owner, "you two got somewhere to stay tonight?" "No, why?" came the reply. Transco guy: "i'm shutting your house down" and he did, then started breaking up the road in front of the drive to get to the gas pipe.

I'll post one pic, (i have literally hundreds of this job) here's the waste pipe from the master bathroom that's been clipped using what can only be described as polystyrene packaging blocks to the eves:

****** it here's another one, focal point of the lounge - the chimney breast:

 This is the new paradigm in house building, get it sold, take the money and run, this is the world we're in now? As i often say to prospective clients when they start coughing about my price, "you don't want a decent job, you want a cheap job - right?"

looks like a bodge i agree, must be a loft conversion judging where they have teed into the soil pipe (badly)

not only are the split face tiles hideous and 2nd hand as there is silicone residue left on them they are not fitted properly. 

75% of trades are shite though so that is what you get. 

[Monkey]

I see it as pride. Not many people have enough pride in their work to do it right. And thats not just tradies office staff, shop staff all types of job. 

Its partly down to the pay, but also the general mentality of the world it seems. 

Anyone who does take pride in their work, and makes sure it is right will never make and real profit that reflects it 100% as there will always be someone cheaper who doesnt give a ******, just want the money and will do the bare minimum they can ger away with.

[burk]

9 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I see it as pride. Not many people have enough pride in their work to do it right. And thats not just tradies office staff, shop staff all types of job. 

Its partly down to the pay, but also the general mentality of the world it seems. 

Anyone who does take pride in their work, and makes sure it is right will never make and real profit that reflects it 100% as there will always be someone cheaper who doesnt give a ******, just want the money and will do the bare minimum they can ger away with.

That's the existential crisis I've been having the last couple of years. Its become increasingly obvious to me that my job as a skilled joiner/ cabinet maker is all but over, the fact i'm writing this in the middle of what should be a work day tells its own story. I think subconsciously i'm done - after nearly 25 years i have no love for the job & no motivation. I'm sick of the 'geezers' and tosser - non/late paying developer/builder types I've worked for who overpopulate my work world over the years as well as a lot of the sun-reading morons i work with (LG's 75%). I spent most of last week in bed - i just couldn't get my shit together.

Every client wants the job done cheaper and faster, so far I've walked out on more than a few clients this year when they tell me their budget/cost expectations for the job. I just close my book thank them for their time and get back in the van, i can't be bothered to reason with them or explain to them their shortsightedness, years ago i would - now - I've lost the will and as you & LG have said there's always someone else to do the job cheaper so why waste anymore time.

To bring it back to topic, the over-inflated property market has played a massive part in my current malaise as I've watched no end of talent less ***** pack in their jobs and become property developers or builders who - hand on heart - genuinely don't have a clue what they're doing and then there's the client side of things where the homeowners spent so much money buying the house there is a completely and in my opinion - knowingly - unrealistic idea of costs based on how little they have left in the bank.

Curiously, this year has seen a fair amount of toffs in the New Forest area cough and splutter over my costs, I'm thinking if they haven't got the money who has?

[HowMuch!]

On 12/03/2019 at 18:31, burk said:

Had something similar land in my inbox end of last week, a recruitment firm contacted me offering me a job application for a boat builder 20 miles up theroad from me that build multi-million pound yachts, the job was £9 - 14 an hour, 20 days holiday going upto 25 days after 5 years work.! When i put it through a salary calculator and made the relavant adjustments for time going there and coming back plus fuel costs i'd earn £1.50 an hour more stacking shelves in my local Lidl's.

And the best bit of the offer "must supply your own power tools & hand tools" for a job where i'd take home a basic after taxes and travel costs of about £350 a week when all's said and done. Christ any power tool i through a rock at in the back of my van costs more than what i'd earn a week, absolutely nuts, and what did the recruiter say to me?

"They've got plenty of vacancies you know", me: "er............. yeah - no shit" to be of a standard as a joiner /maker where you're making pieces of furniture befitting the interior of a multi-million pound yacht surely must pay more than stacking shelves in a supermarket and the supermarket job doesn't require £2000 quids worth of tools plus travel time and £70 a week on fuel getting there and back.

Must be a new paradigm?

 

 

I used to work in the luxury yacht market, agencies would send "skilled workers" who didn't even know how to drill a clearance hole and fix timber with a screw.

Very embarrassing with regard to the standard of work by some of the workers, but the workforce was required to meet the order deadlines and there was always overtime to meet the build schedule.

The boats were in the millions and the owners thought they were buying the very best. Sure lots of the build faults would be not affect the performance, but be plenty of hidden nasty fault due to poor workmanship.

The wages always have been less than house building which really does not make sense. For a skilled trade its low, but its the way it is. all down to the art of looking busy while taking it easy doing just enough to be better than the slowest poorest employee.

If you spending a few million on a boat it has to be worth paying for a independent surveyor who can be checking the build on a daily basis, weekly checks would miss crucial parts of the build. How good are the boats? only as good as a £10 a hour unsupervised employee.

 

[Arpeggio]

On 13/03/2019 at 14:37, burk said:

That's the existential crisis I've been having the last couple of years.

To bring it back to topic, the over-inflated property market has played a massive part in my current malaise as I've watched no end of talent less ***** pack in their jobs and become property developers or builders who - hand on heart - genuinely don't have a clue what they're doing and then there's the client side of things where the homeowners spent so much money buying the house there is a completely and in my opinion - knowingly - unrealistic idea of costs based on how little they have left in the bank. 

Has it got worse in the last couple of years? If so I wonder if it might be due to house price stagnation, as opposed to when house prices were going up and property shows on telly were saying "Simply spending just £3000 on this for your house will increase its value by £10,000!" etc. Of course, I think people should see your work for its value with regards to a place they live, not as part of a cost risk assessment on the value of house as a bank account.

[burk]

15 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

Has it got worse in the last couple of years? If so I wonder if it might be due to house price stagnation, as opposed to when house prices were going up and property shows on telly were saying "Simply spending just £3000 on this for your house will increase its value by £10,000!" etc. Of course, I think people should see your work for its value with regards to a place they live, not as part of a cost risk assessment on the value of house as a bank account.

Thats a good point you make and i understand alot of people are infact skint as ****** but unlike me are desparately trying to style it out by MEWing and credit cards whereas i've pretty much burnt through all my savings pot now. Plus people are making do and mending rather than having new, i do a lot of kitchen re-sprays and re-dooring /re-topping of existing kitchens and bedroom furniture.

The higher end of the market is always the worst to deal with they're the ones with a £5k TV on the lounge wall and a brand new Range Rover parked out front and under the stairs 50 year old bakerlite fuses! Yeah no thanks.

They're always the ones desparate to nail you down to two decimal places when giving an estimate - I don't do quotes as i've got caught too many times sorting out unforseen problems, usually dodgy electrics or plumbing / gas or in one case pulling the flooring up to reveal completely rotted-through joists & the client expecting me to cover those costs as according to her "i should've known", me: "I dont think so?"

For me personally its been going down hill for me since about 2010 in terms of hourly rate and continuity of work.  Makes me laugh when anyone of those twats from westminster appears on the box to tells me things could get a lot worse if we leave the EU and i'm thinking i've been eating a turd sandwich along with everyone else since 2008 and yet they give em selves above-inflation pay increases and keep the gates open.

I used to think they were incompetent but i now think it by design, just finished re-reading an updated version Peter Hitchins book, ' The abolition of Britain' and found myself nodding in an agreement with alot of what he says. Still it could be worse i guess....................by how much i don't know.

cheers

[Arpeggio]

Annoying, sorry to hear that. Unfortunately I think the building trade has unwittingly become too linked to what banks choose to do and how houses are perceived. Lacking overall consistency, just boom then bust with a generally penniless aftermath, where under 40's don't / can't DIY as much (apparently) but are skint and don't own a house anyway.

[Monkey]

17 hours ago, burk said:

For me personally its been going down hill for me since about 2010 in terms of hourly rate and continuity of work.   

I'm in a similar industry... i'm a draftmans and 10years ago had a list of small builders/kitchen bathroom fitters i was doing drawings, BOQs etc, for and not arguing over my fee and when it was to be paid. 

Now i get very little from these as they are trying to do the drawings themselves, snag is they are using sub par(cheap) software and spending 10/15 hours + a week on top of doing the jobs, doing drawing work for free, but they are taking home no more money than 10 years ago.

Some are also doing more electrical, tiling, plumbing, decorating, flooring without employing the specialist trades to try and save money. 

[Riedquat]

2 hours ago, Monkey said:

Some are also doing more electrical, tiling, plumbing, decorating, flooring without employing the specialist trades to try and save money. 

OK if you know what you're doing or don't mind learning.

[burk]

1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

OK if you know what you're doing or don't mind learning.

And that's the problem with the building industry:  its mostly populated by incompetents, bullshitters & liars and that's just the 'trades' side of things don't get me started on the mgt ?, two words 'Willmot Dixon'. The only house builder I've subbed to where they had more clipboard dollies/HSE drones goose-stepping around the site than actual blokes building the fkn houses - absolutely incredible.

On a more cheerful note nice to see Interserve finally getting the bullet (although its a pre-pack i understand), they tried doing the 90 day terms number on me & the other subbies, needless to say that was a short working day for me - induction in the morning then walked out along with 90% of the room an hour later! Three months to get paid, err go **** yourself!

And yet all you read is how the building industry is chronically short of skilled trades just like the argument surrounding the NHS and its supposed staff shortage. There's no shortage whatsoever of people, the only shortage is of people who won't work under those onerous terms for next to nothing, that's the real problem, hence our successive govt's open-door policy on immigration.

 

 

 

[longgone]

30 minutes ago, burk said:

And that's the problem with the building industry:  its mostly populated by incompetents, bullshitters & liars and that's just the 'trades' side of things don't get me started on the mgt ?, two words 'Willmot Dixon'. The only house builder I've subbed to where they had more clipboard dollies/HSE drones goose-stepping around the site than actual blokes building the fkn houses - absolutely incredible.

On a more cheerful note nice to see Interserve finally getting the bullet (although its a pre-pack i understand), they tried doing the 90 day terms number on me & the other subbies, needless to say that was a short working day for me - induction in the morning then walked out along with 90% of the room an hour later! Three months to get paid, err go **** yourself!

And yet all you read is how the building industry is chronically short of skilled trades just like the argument surrounding the NHS and its supposed staff shortage. There's no shortage whatsoever of people, the only shortage is of people who won't work under those onerous terms for next to nothing, that's the real problem, hence our successive govt's open-door policy on immigration.

 

 

 

Most industries are like that try working in a IT capacity they look at you lower than the cleaners and think you doing nothing all day.  

if i had my time again i would never go near a computer. 

[burk]

2 hours ago, longgone said:

Most industries are like that try working in a IT capacity they look at you lower than the cleaners and think you doing nothing all day.  

if i had my time again i would never go near a computer. 

Really? All i hear from mates that got out of my industry and into yours was how good the going was? A few years back mind you. All this reminds me of Mark Blyth's comment on the EU intergration, "its not there to push EE wages up, its to push everybody elses wages down".

My late father told some thirty years ago, "the problem with capitalism is it'll eventually disappear up its own arsehole" I didn't know what he meant as a 13 year old kid - now i do, its just a race to the bottom...................

[longgone]

19 minutes ago, burk said:

Really? All i hear from mates that got out of my industry and into yours was how good the going was? A few years back mind you. All this reminds me of Mark Blyth's comment on the EU intergration, "its not there to push EE wages up, its to push everybody elses wages down to their levels".

My late father told some thirty years ago, "the problem with capitalism is it'll eventually disappear up its own arsehole" I didn't know what he meant as a 13 year old kid - now i do, its just a race to the bottom...................

my experience is different. 

although i have a pessimistic outlook on the world which probably does not help, being a miserable git is a full time job ?

[winkie]

Has no one cottoned on that there are people who are paid well to create problems, so to create another job to do/fix.....

No needs, no wants......no work, no income.