Freki Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 For posterity since the Guardian does not seem willing to make an article out of their live reporting: Quote Most of John Cunliffe’s speech is devoted to the issue of what might cause the next financial crisis. In Cunliffe’s view - that crisis will probably be caused by banks overextending credit, fuelling an asset boom that eventually bursts, leaving to losses as asset prices fall. Taking a historical, Cunliffe points out that debt which bears interest, or credit, has a long and not very proud record of growing faster than economic growth can justify. Citing the creation of debt in bronze age Mesopotamia, Cunliffe says: Debt contracts are essentially claims on the future and the future, when it arrives, does not always honour them..... Later in the speech, he predicts I expect the next ‘crisis’ to involve some form of over-valuation of assets, over-extension of credit and losses when this corrects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Once those who have a vested interest to do away with cash are able, many pressures in that regard, they will see that negative interest rates will erode earned money and savings even faster...... don't use it, lose it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 'Next' crisis? We are still in the first one that started in 2008. It was not allowed to take its natural course and so we haven't even had the crash yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougless Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Errol said: 'Next' crisis? We are still in the first one that started in 2008. It was not allowed to take its natural course and so we haven't even had the crash yet. That's how I feel many of us here see it. The dips that should have come in the early 2000's were avoided and the bigger DIP in 2007/8 has been avoided so the next one will be ENORMOUS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 1 hour ago, winkie said: Once those who have a vested interest to do away with cash are able, many pressures in that regard, they will see that negative interest rates will erode earned money and savings even faster...... don't use it, lose it. But the majority sell that taken-for-granted treasure (cash) down the river for the sake of convenience - tapping their stupid phone on something - and won't care, or even ever notice that cash removal is to their disadvantage. What will they do if interest rates go negative? They'll go out and buy lots of meaningless crap they don't need, and the precious economy continues for another couple generations til the next ingenious scam takes hold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) Just now, Orb said: But the majority sell that taken-for-granted treasure (cash) down the river for the sake of convenience - tapping their stupid phone on something - and won't care, or even ever notice that cash removal is to their disadvantage. What will they do if interest rates go negative? They'll go out and buy lots of meaningless crap they don't need, and the precious economy continues for another couple generations til the next ingenious scam takes hold. Don't buy your crap today when tomorrow they will be giving it away. Noticed most of the MSM are pushing cashless........common sense tells you the more choices we have the better.......they are pushing for taking away choices......WHY?????? Edited March 6, 2019 by winkie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Nurse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Of course, the Mesopotamians famously resolved their borrowing quandaries by destroying the clay tablets on which the debts were inscribed. Is Cunliffe preparing us for a Debt Jubilee? http://www.cadtm.org/The-Long-Tradition-of-Debt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 3 hours ago, winkie said: Once those who have a vested interest to do away with cash are able, many pressures in that regard, they will see that negative interest rates will erode earned money and savings even faster...... don't use it, lose it. How is thst different in effect to below inflation savings rates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Just now, Confusion of VIs said: How is thst different in effect to below inflation savings rates. Means eroding it before spent it......wining short and long-term......so many downsides with getting rid of cash.....so many upsides of keeping both cash and digital........why would anyone wish for a monopoly..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 11 minutes ago, winkie said: Means eroding it before spent it......wining short and long-term......so many downsides with getting rid of cash.....so many upsides of keeping both cash and digital........why would anyone wish for a monopoly..... I think the battle, if there ever was one is already lost and cash is on its way out. Unless you are getting paid in it there is no day to day upside in using cash anymore. Contactless is far quicker for 90% of transactions and as use of cash becomes rarer the cost and disadvantages will increase. You don't generally wish for monopolies they just happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North London Rent Girl Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Errol said: 'Next' crisis? We are still in the first one that started in 2008. It was not allowed to take its natural course and so we haven't even had the crash yet. Absolutely, same old game of pretending it hasn't happened yet - "some form of over-valuation of assets, over-extension of credit", huh, imagine such a thing, what could it be, can you imagine anything so dreadful happening, we must be sure it doesn't, that would be awful. It's reality-denial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Just now, Confusion of VIs said: I think the battle, if there ever was one is already lost and cash is on its way out. Unless you are getting paid in it there is no day to day upside in using cash anymore. Contactless is far quicker for 90% of transactions and as use of cash becomes rarer the cost and disadvantages will increase. You don't generally wish for monopolies they just happen. Can name two shops that still for the moment only accept cash .......20% odd do not have a smart phone, very many pockets of of the UK have no mobile signal......not unusual for cards not to be accepted because signal is poor......there are many, many upsides of cash.....easier to budget, a pound will always stay a pound, 'promise to pay the bearer on demand' able to spend without scrutiny, unable to be followed, spending pattern data not collected, everyone loves and happy to accept cash.......if the system crashes still got money to spend......like having a backup generator when get a power cut.....very vulnerable when we all have to have trust in technology and avoid cybercrime ........ no need to rob a bank when there is no need for bank branches.......Banks want to do away with cash, huge benefits for them, big profits for them, massive free data to be collected by them.....they will be in 100% control until they are not in control...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 just been on gumtree and noticed a guy willing to swap his lawn mower for a roll of AstroTurf. no cash needed ? swap shop could be the new cash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 17 hours ago, Confusion of VIs said: I think the battle, if there ever was one is already lost and cash is on its way out. Agreed - young people never use cash: whenever you see someone under 30 they're paying by card, and when you see someone under 21 they're paying using their phone. The young of today are the entire population of tomorrow. 16 hours ago, winkie said: Can name two shops that still for the moment only accept cash .......20% odd do not have a smart phone, very many pockets of of the UK have no mobile signal......not unusual for cards not to be accepted because signal is poor......there are many, many upsides of cash.....easier to budget, a pound will always stay a pound, 'promise to pay the bearer on demand' able to spend without scrutiny, unable to be followed, spending pattern data not collected, everyone loves and happy to accept cash.......if the system crashes still got money to spend......like having a backup generator when get a power cut.....very vulnerable when we all have to have trust in technology and avoid cybercrime ........ no need to rob a bank when there is no need for bank branches.......Banks want to do away with cash, huge benefits for them, big profits for them, massive free data to be collected by them.....they will be in 100% control until they are not in control...... I think the ability to pay even in remote areas and during a power cut are genuine upsides of cash. The untrackability is both a good and bad point - nice for privacy, but also nice for money-launderers. However "everyone loves and is happy to accept cash" is just false and becoming ever more false by the day. Try paying friends and colleagues in cash and they hate it, just hate it. I've had 25-year olds at work literally saying "please don't give me cash today - I'd much rather have a bank transfer tomorrow". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 20 minutes ago, scottbeard said: . However "everyone loves and is happy to accept cash" is just false and becoming ever more false by the day. Try paying friends and colleagues in cash and they hate it, just hate it. I've had 25-year olds at work literally saying "please don't give me cash today - I'd much rather have a bank transfer tomorrow". Agreed. Wtf are you supposed to do with cash? Also, shops, cheaper to take electronic. More secure and safe for staff . Less till errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 I love cash and will always accept it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zugzwang Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 15 minutes ago, Errol said: I love cash and will always accept it. Anonymous, untraceable, local and non-volatile. What's not to like? I use cash for everything even when it's inconvenient i.e. buying a car. And if it flies up the sphincter of the banking establishment and the silicon digerati, so much the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 The naivety of this thread is amazing. Absolutely amazing. Cash is so the powers that be dont know you've got it and can't take it off you. Millennials will learn the hard way. The reason they don't do cash currently is they are living on credit. When they get rid of cash, we'll have to find something else the powers that be dont know about and can't take off you. If they think we're going to have no cash and pay whatever tax they want, they are just plain stupid. As for crash v2 corporate debt fits the criteria nicely. G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottbeard Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 10 hours ago, 24gray24 said: Cash is so the powers that be dont know you've got it and can't take it off you. … When they get rid of cash, we'll have to find something else the powers that be dont know about and can't take off you. But the powers that be take around 3-5% of the value of your cash every year via inflation? If you want something beyond the reach of the government even today you can't use cash: hence why so many posts on this website are devoted to gold, bitcoins etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkie Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 19 hours ago, scottbeard said: Agreed - young people never use cash: whenever you see someone under 30 they're paying by card, and when you see someone under 21 they're paying using their phone. The young of today are the entire population of tomorrow. I think the ability to pay even in remote areas and during a power cut are genuine upsides of cash. The untrackability is both a good and bad point - nice for privacy, but also nice for money-launderers. However "everyone loves and is happy to accept cash" is just false and becoming ever more false by the day. Try paying friends and colleagues in cash and they hate it, just hate it. I've had 25-year olds at work literally saying "please don't give me cash today - I'd much rather have a bank transfer tomorrow". ....the money laundering thing is over played.....it is very hard to withdraw any kind of large amount of money from a bank, banks no longer hold large sums of M1 money.....the huge money laundering is done though opaque companies and entities even through property and other assets.....not the £100 held in someones purse they just withdrew from a cash machine.......money laundering red herring for the general populace......one rule for the rich another for the poor......I will take cash any day because it as it stands will always be there to spend, I know big money want the people to lose faith in using it, they have a big vested interest for them to do so, pushing that narrative very hard.......save them a fortune, make them even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disenfranchised Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Later in the speech, he predicts I expect the next ‘crisis’ to involve some form of over-valuation of assets, over-extension of credit and losses when this corrects. In other news, the sun rises in the East and sinks in the West, and the Starks say winter is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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