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prozac

Today we had someone fake their entire interview via Skype - Story

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10 minutes ago, prozac said:

Screen Shot 2019-02-20 at 20.36.20.png

Sounds good to me. If you are good at finding information you can find pretty much anything these days. But finding stuff is a skill.

If you rely on the bio memory bank you only know what you can drag out of your head.

Edit : I wonder also who is thicker. The person who cheats. Or the person who sets up the interview process that allows them to cheat. Ultimately if you don't put the effort in, you get the candidate you deserve.

Edited by Gigantic Purple Slug

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I don't know.....I've made a (quite decently paid) career out of searching stack overflow, adapting answers to solve a particular problem and gluing things together to make a total solution. 

Three days ago I knew nothing about gitlab and docker. Fast forward, and I've knocked something up that'll make workflow for a team leagues faster than before.

I don't retain much info, or understand the nuances of template meta programming in C++, but I'm seemingly very good at being able to find something that I can use and realising that new technologies are all the same really.

In contrast, I totally fall apart when someone is watching me work. I need 5 minutes of peace to Google and think.

Being charitable, this chaps mistake might have been he wasn't up front about it. First thing I say in interview is 'I'm just really, really good at finding what I need, but don't ask me to explain it immediately!"

 

Edited by Frugal Git

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58 minutes ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Sounds good to me. If you are good at finding information you can find pretty much anything these days. But finding stuff is a skill.

If you rely on the bio memory bank you only know what you can drag out of your head.

Edit : I wonder also who is thicker. The person who cheats. Or the person who sets up the interview process that allows them to cheat. Ultimately if you don't put the effort in, you get the candidate you deserve.

exactly!

Edited by Frugal Git

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1 hour ago, Gigantic Purple Slug said:

Sounds good to me. If you are good at finding information you can find pretty much anything these days. But finding stuff is a skill.

If you rely on the bio memory bank you only know what you can drag out of your head.

 

I agree - the days when you would need to commit large amounts of data to your memory are long gone - the real skill now is knowing what to search for to quickly find an accurate solution to the problem.

  What matters is a basic understanding of the technology, not ability to regurgitate facts (which will never match what can be pulled up quickly from the internet on a smartphone anyway).

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Accountant here; google is a pretty essential tool in our profession. 

So much so that we basically prep people for what we're going to ask in the interview and grade them on how well they research/answer it. There's a massive difference between a trained accountant googling something and interpreting what they find and someone who doesn't understand trying to blag their way through. 

That said, the only way to genuinely test someone's level of technical expertise is to ask them face to face where there's no way they can cheat. All our interviews also have a non pre seen technical question and an excel task they have to do sat in front of us. 

Thing is, we're not necessarily looking gor the right answer to the technical bit (we are in excel of course), we just want to see how they handle the question. 

Actually knowing this overly technical stuff is for the nerds in technical/quality who sit in the office and pour over legislation all day and leach off those of us who are actually out there earning fees. They're at the end of a phoneline/email in the event you get asked something you genuinely don't know and can't find via google anyway (and that will happen; there are small tweaks to accounting standards every single year, it's nigh on impossible to keep it all in your head). 

You'd be surprised but being overly technical can be career limiting; this probably doesn't apply to IT so much I guess but in our world if you want to make partner/director it's how much you know about individual sectors (ie business) and how well you can relate to clients that will make it happen, not how well you can talk some mid level accountant (let's face it, the FD doesn't give a ****** either and the FC hasn't got time) through a non material adjustment to their accounts. 

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Having had quite a few interviews over the years I have learnt that, if you want the job, the best policy is to tell them what they want to hear. As soon as you start going into your personal hopes & fears, perhaps even demonstrate that you are an individual with an intellect, then you can smell the fear. OMG he's not a team player!

Of course, be ready for the one tricky question, 'what are your weaknesses?' to which you will have prepared a suitable (to them) answer.

The standard of interview I have been to is pretty poor, most of the decision is made before on looking at your CV experience (as edited by the fellow at the agency who above all wants his fee). The company want to fill the vacancy as soon as possible and the interviewer is in a hurry to go back to their job as head of department with the box ticked.

Anyway, you get the job and it turns out totally different from the description of the one you applied for or was discussed at interview! You have been taken on with the assumption of being a team player, but it appears that you are the only one in the team. Some things were not explained to you honestly at interview. That is when you have to get on and use the qualities that you didn't volunteer to the interviewer.

Who has misled whom?

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12 hours ago, Frugal Git said:

I don't know.....I've made a (quite decently paid) career out of searching stack overflow, adapting answers to solve a particular problem and gluing things together to make a total solution

Stack overflow is such a valuable resource as are its sister sites. Rather than see them as a crutch, employers should be encouraging workers to run everything (within reason of course) they do against these knowledge bases, since it not only improves the skills of workers but ultimately improves quality, and could save the company money in the long run. Plus it only takes a few seconds to do an initial query. I think employers and workers probably do understand this nowadays.

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1 hour ago, frankief said:

Having had quite a few interviews over the years I have learnt that, if you want the job, the best policy is to tell them what they want to hear. As soon as you start going into your personal hopes & fears, perhaps even demonstrate that you are an individual with an intellect, then you can smell the fear. OMG he's not a team player!

Of course, be ready for the one tricky question, 'what are your weaknesses?' to which you will have prepared a suitable (to them) answer.

The standard of interview I have been to is pretty poor, most of the decision is made before on looking at your CV experience (as edited by the fellow at the agency who above all wants his fee). The company want to fill the vacancy as soon as possible and the interviewer is in a hurry to go back to their job as head of department with the box ticked.

Anyway, you get the job and it turns out totally different from the description of the one you applied for or was discussed at interview! You have been taken on with the assumption of being a team player, but it appears that you are the only one in the team. Some things were not explained to you honestly at interview. That is when you have to get on and use the qualities that you didn't volunteer to the interviewer.

Who has misled whom?

Happens all the time, at the interview for a System support job a small amount of admin work was listed as part of the role described as updating spreadsheets sending a few emails weekly etc, fine i thought. started the job and was give a 6 sheet process on how to check and send multiple BACS payments daily if this was missed it would be a fire-able offence. i left after 2 weeks. 

Surely this is an accounting payrole function ? i did ask management why this was part of IT function they told me the bacs server had to be rebooted daily as was not reliable for admin staff to do this. 😆

Why not fix the damm server ?? inept ahole of a company. 

 

 

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Just now, EnglishinWales said:

Memorisation and recall of facts is no longer considered worthy in the job market? What the hell's the point of school anymore then?! Since that's basically what it trains you for.

I think problem solving ability is considered more important than the memorization of facts or knowledge in IT, software and engineering anyway. Although, there are still underlying concepts, basic principles, best practices, laws/regulations, etc. you need to know and remember.

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Problem-solving and other critical thinking skills are pretty much drummed out of you at school. Good job it's still legal to home educate your kids. It appears school is past the point of being useful and may even be harming childrens' job prospects.

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13 minutes ago, Captain Kirk said:

I think problem solving ability is considered more important than the memorization of facts or knowledge in IT, software and engineering anyway. Although, there are still underlying concepts, basic principles, best practices, laws/regulations, etc. you need to know and remember.

IMO you need a good grasp and knowledge to begin with, and the ability to use that to be able to find the details that you've not remembered quickly and easily. Looking up those details that you don't use all that often is fine, having to look up things you use regularly is not. Having things instantly available to recall is always better but the less frequently you use something the less the impact is between remembering and looking up. And knowing more in you head provides a better picture and context for the things that you can't remember.

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If the interviewers were conducting a technical interview by mostly asking generic questions like "if you were trying to solve X, what would you do?" or "what does Y mean?" then they weren't doing their job very well. Much better to spend 30 minutes or so asking the candidate to talk through their previous positions on their CV and asking probing questions about that work as you go along so you can try to figure out what the problems were and how they were solved. It's difficult to fake specifics like that and it gives you some idea what the candidate's personality is like. A couple of times I've had candidates try to fake that part by exaggerating their role in the work or try to skip over details and their story has fallen apart in real time.

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Interesting.  I've been on the receiving end of a Google assisted telephone interview several times.  In one interview you could even hear the candidate whispering with colleagues who were obviously trying to guide him.  To be honest, asking anything that can be found on Google is just pointless in tech interviews these days.  Far better to look at overall knowledge (strengths / weaknesses of different approaches) and problem solving with broad questions - in my domain at least.

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I've been a developer since the days when the primary research resource was several bookshelves full of thick ring--bound manuals and 'Foo Programming Revealed' books.

Back in the late nineties we were just getting routine Internet access in the office, but it was still looked upon with great suspicion as at best a timewaster and at worst something likely to have us openly masturbating at our desks.

My development manager at the time was mid-30's, looked mid-50's and cultivated a kind of affected old-school MIT-hacker persona.

He straight out told us we were not allowed to use the Internet for work queries and pointed at the bookshelf - that is what they paid the MSDN subscriptions for etc.

Thankfully he was fired not too long after - well he was told he wasn't a manager anymore and he felt strongly that this was incorrect, so he left.

 

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29 minutes ago, Discustard said:

I've been a developer since the days when the primary research resource was several bookshelves full of thick ring--bound manuals and 'Foo Programming Revealed' books.

Back in the late nineties we were just getting routine Internet access in the office, but it was still looked upon with great suspicion as at best a timewaster and at worst something likely to have us openly masturbating at our desks.

My development manager at the time was mid-30's, looked mid-50's and cultivated a kind of affected old-school MIT-hacker persona.

He straight out told us we were not allowed to use the Internet for work queries and pointed at the bookshelf - that is what they paid the MSDN subscriptions for etc.

Thankfully he was fired not too long after - well he was told he wasn't a manager anymore and he felt strongly that this was incorrect, so he left.

 

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