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Jacob Rees-Mogg comments on concentration camps

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Conservative MP Jacob-Rees Mogg has compared the death rate in Boer War concentration camps to the death rate in Glasgow at the time.

Rees-Mogg: "The death rates were exactly the same as in Glasgow"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47247835/jacob-rees-mogg-comments-on-concentration-camps

Fact check:

  • Death rates in British concentration camps: "In all, about one in four (25 percent) of the Boer inmates, mostly children, died."
  • Death rates in Glasgow via the Herald "Glasgow, in 1901, had a population of 762,000 and, according to the National Records of Scotland, 16,190 people died. That dropped slightly to 15,530 in 1902." Taken over 3 years that amounts to a death rate of 6%

Remember the days when we had politicians who at least had some idea what they were talking about.

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The problem with this kind of (probably) intentional misrepresentation is that it's the first thing that people hear about something that sticks in their minds.

I'd be willing to bet that at least 50% of people who read a statement like that wouldn't even question the accuracy, let alone go and do any research of their own.

Its probably the reason that the same commenters on e.g BBC HYS are always the first to comment - they're bots that spring into action as soon as the comments open, probably to get the biggest mindshare off the bat.

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28 minutes ago, Habeas Domus said:

Conservative MP Jacob-Rees Mogg has compared the death rate in Boer War concentration camps to the death rate in Glasgow at the time.

Rees-Mogg: "The death rates were exactly the same as in Glasgow"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47247835/jacob-rees-mogg-comments-on-concentration-camps

Fact check:

  • Death rates in British concentration camps: "In all, about one in four (25 percent) of the Boer inmates, mostly children, died."
  • Death rates in Glasgow via the Herald "Glasgow, in 1901, had a population of 762,000 and, according to the National Records of Scotland, 16,190 people died. That dropped slightly to 15,530 in 1902." Taken over 3 years that amounts to a death rate of 6%

Remember the days when we had politicians who at least had some idea what they were talking about.

Depends how you want to spin it

Quote

by February 1902 the annual death-rate in the concentration camps for white inmates dropped to 6.9 percent and eventually to 2 percent.

 

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35 minutes ago, Captain Kirk said:

Depends how you want to spin it

 

Thats an annual figure, the camps ran over 3 years.

The 25% number is the total over 3 years and the 6% is the glasgow mortality rate over 3 years - you have to compare like with like not just grab the first number you read.

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1 hour ago, Habeas Domus said:

Conservative MP Jacob-Rees Mogg has compared the death rate in Boer War concentration camps to the death rate in Glasgow at the time.

Rees-Mogg: "The death rates were exactly the same as in Glasgow"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47247835/jacob-rees-mogg-comments-on-concentration-camps

Fact check:

  • Death rates in British concentration camps: "In all, about one in four (25 percent) of the Boer inmates, mostly children, died."
  • Death rates in Glasgow via the Herald "Glasgow, in 1901, had a population of 762,000 and, according to the National Records of Scotland, 16,190 people died. That dropped slightly to 15,530 in 1902." Taken over 3 years that amounts to a death rate of 6%

Remember the days when we had politicians who at least had some idea what they were talking about.

The british got the idea from the spanish in cuba, where the death rate as even worse https://www.pbs.org/crucible/tl4.html

The idea, of course, was to remove the support for the guerrilla tactics of the boers from countryside, by removing those civilians who were sympatheic to their cause (same with the spanish in cuba)

I often see people online say "the british invented concentration camps" not only is that not true, but they are conflating the british camps with the concentration camps of the Nazis, which were specifically for the  extermination of a population based on racial identity, something the spanish and britich concentration camps were definitely not. Bear in mind britain lost 28000 soldiers in the war and  the boer population (soldiers and civilians) about 30000, britain very nearly lost.

Edited by debtlessmanc

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41 minutes ago, Habeas Domus said:

Thats an annual figure, the camps ran over 3 years.

The 25% number is the total over 3 years and the 6% is the glasgow mortality rate over 3 years - you have to compare like with like not just grab the first number you read.

It wasn't the first number I read. I searched for it.

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He lied and continues to lie.

In fact they all lie.

They don't appear from nowhere, they're a product of British society and its getting what it deserves.

We're leaving the EU...I suggest we all start to come to terms and deal with it.

At least all those artificial props that were so carelessly  assembled post 2008 will get knocked down.

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17 minutes ago, Roman Roady said:

He lied and continues to lie.

In fact they all lie.

They don't appear from nowhere, they're a product of British society and its getting what it deserves.

We're leaving the EU...I suggest we all start to come to terms and deal with it.

At least all those artificial props that were so carelessly  assembled post 2008 will get knocked down.

Did you watch the BBC2 documentary on Brexit? i especially liked the bit were Hollande calmly told the camera that he had advised cameron to renege on election promises as this was the usual thing to do in these circumstances. None of this is going to end well, here or on the continent.

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The problem I have is the BBC headline it to suggest he is talking about WW2 concentration camps.  When someone says "concentration camps" without qualification, you usually think of WW2.

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15 minutes ago, reddog said:

The problem I have is the BBC headline it to suggest he is talking about WW2 concentration camps.  When someone says "concentration camps" without qualification, you usually think of WW2.

Thats my point, the Nazis used the expression to hide their true purpose, as death camps. The Nazis thought that people would find the exrpession "concentration camp" to be fairly innocuous. My great uncle was in the division that liberated Belsen concentration camp, he is long dead but i remember what he told me he had seen, but mostly I remember that he told me about he and his comrades amazement that the allied propaganda, if anything, underplayed their horrors, he had assumed the allies were lying about how awful the Nazis camps were.

Edited by debtlessmanc

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On 17/02/2019 at 12:37, Habeas Domus said:

Conservative MP Jacob-Rees Mogg has compared the death rate in Boer War concentration camps to the death rate in Glasgow at the time.

Rees-Mogg: "The death rates were exactly the same as in Glasgow"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-47247835/jacob-rees-mogg-comments-on-concentration-camps

Fact check:

  • Death rates in British concentration camps: "In all, about one in four (25 percent) of the Boer inmates, mostly children, died."
  • Death rates in Glasgow via the Herald "Glasgow, in 1901, had a population of 762,000 and, according to the National Records of Scotland, 16,190 people died. That dropped slightly to 15,530 in 1902." Taken over 3 years that amounts to a death rate of 6%

Remember the days when we had politicians who at least had some idea what they were talking about.

Yes, and I really dislike the Mogg supporters club.

One the other day was saying how he was a self made man and built a business from nothing.

Having a rich family and going to Elton obviously had nothing to do with it. He’d achieved the same if he’d been brought up in a Glaswegian Slum.

The only bit of Mogg that is self is his persona of being a complete tw@t.

 

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On 17/02/2019 at 13:57, debtlessmanc said:

The british got the idea from the spanish in cuba, where the death rate as even worse https://www.pbs.org/crucible/tl4.html

The idea, of course, was to remove the support for the guerrilla tactics of the boers from countryside, by removing those civilians who were sympatheic to their cause (same with the spanish in cuba)

I often see people online say "the british invented concentration camps" not only is that not true, but they are conflating the british camps with the concentration camps of the Nazis, which were specifically for the  extermination of a population based on racial identity, something the spanish and britich concentration camps were definitely not. Bear in mind britain lost 28000 soldiers in the war and  the boer population (soldiers and civilians) about 30000, britain very nearly lost.

They might be very mild compared to the Nazi camps, but that's not to say they weren't horrendous. According to wikipedia a major reason for them was to round up civilians so they would not be in the villages when they burnt them down and razed all the crops. Then they did not give the people in the camps enough food, did not bother with proper hygiene etc. They even reduced the food rations of children to pressure the parents into surrendering. 

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On 17/02/2019 at 16:06, debtlessmanc said:

Did you watch the BBC2 documentary on Brexit? i especially liked the bit were Hollande calmly told the camera that he had advised cameron to renege on election promises as this was the usual thing to do in these circumstances. None of this is going to end well, here or on the continent.

So a bit like "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue’" then - except not on promises made pre-election but in response to actual democratic process?

 

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On 17/02/2019 at 16:38, byron78 said:

Rees Mogg is more dangerous than Corbyn IMHO. 

State of British politics today... 

On the contrary. I really think Rees Mogg could save the country and turn the Conservative party around, thats why the left don't like him and spout unfounded stories such as this on the BBC and threads such as this

Edited by bear.getting.old

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1 hour ago, bear.getting.old said:

On the contrary. I really think Rees Mogg could save the country and turn the Conservative party around, thats why the left don't like him and spout unfounded stories such as this on the BBC and threads such as this

Read the Sovereign Individual. Seriously. 

Rees-Mogg doesn't give a toss about the UK. He's all about personal profit and the maintenance of privilege for the privileged. 

He's not particularly popular down the Con club tbh. Tends to be the older types he appeals to (I'm 78 and a spring chicken compared to some!) 

I suppose what I'm saying is a lot of us on the right can also see him for what he is. Thankfully. 

Edited by byron78

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1 hour ago, bear.getting.old said:

On the contrary. I really think Rees Mogg could save the country and turn the Conservative party around, thats why the left don't like him and spout unfounded stories such as this on the BBC and threads such as this

How can it be "unfounded" when the video of him speaking is right there on youtube and the facts are easily verifiable???

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2 hours ago, bear.getting.old said:

On the contrary. I really think Rees Mogg could save the country and turn the Conservative party around, thats why the left don't like him and spout unfounded stories such as this on the BBC and threads such as this

what is unfounded? He did actually make the comments about concentration camps.

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Its not that, its the way its been spun to make it appear to be a scandal, when it really isn't. If you claim to be right wing and you don't like Rees Mogg then you are not right wing Byron nor a proper conservative, in the same way as neither are Treason May or Hammond.

It really is not true about mogg being for personal gain etc, complete codswallop. Following true conservative values and policy - the kind that Mogg promotes, will help the poorest in society

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11 hours ago, MancTom said:

They might be very mild compared to the Nazi camps, but that's not to say they weren't horrendous. According to wikipedia a major reason for them was to round up civilians so they would not be in the villages when they burnt them down and razed all the crops. Then they did not give the people in the camps enough food, did not bother with proper hygiene etc. They even reduced the food rations of children to pressure the parents into surrendering. 

Indeed , as I said the British were taking huge losses and turned brutal. Not nice, but not genicide. 

Edited by debtlessmanc

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On 19/02/2019 at 21:15, bear.getting.old said:

Its not that, its the way its been spun to make it appear to be a scandal, when it really isn't. If you claim to be right wing and you don't like Rees Mogg then you are not right wing Byron nor a proper conservative, in the same way as neither are Treason May or Hammond.

It really is not true about mogg being for personal gain etc, complete codswallop. Following true conservative values and policy - the kind that Mogg promotes, will help the poorest in society

Oh stop it. I've been a Tory 60 years. It's ALWAYS had its Rees Mogg and Enoch Powell sorts.

Thatcher would have hated Rees Mogg. She did everything she could to reduce the old Etonian sorts within the party. Was she not a proper Conservative? 

What on earth has Rees Mogg suggested that will help the poor?

Bloke is the epitome of tax avoidance, overseas investment, and private charity before public help. None of that helped the poor much in the Victorian era, which is frankly where Mogg belongs.

Should add I also find the perception of the Tories as a "low tax" party odd. 

The top rate of income tax has only ever been lower once (shortly before the 1920s financial crash). The top rate under the majority of Thatcher's reign was 60%. 

We've still actually had the lowest period of top rate tax under New Labour oddly enough (1997-2010). 

It's quite a modern thing. Certainly not a traditional Conservative thing. I was paying 70% or above under Tory governments before the drop to 60% under Thatcher. 

Why then do we all feel so strained? Corporation Tax is less than a third what it was when I started out. And that's for those that don't (legally) avoid most of it.Whereas "stealth" taxes and VAT etc have all gone a bit mental. 

 

Edited by byron78

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No time to do a lengthy reply but all I will say is that Thatcher and Rees Mogg share the same view and opinion on the EU and conservative values, he is no Enoch Powell by a long shot. Thatcher, she would have been backed by Mogg since she would have never have allowed the EU to push her around in the way they are doing May. Mogg wouldn't even need to play such an active role with the ERG if Thatcher was alive and well today. She would be spearheading leaving the EU.

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