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Thousands of workers hit with massive tax avoidance bills

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4 hours ago, GregBowman said:

It’s not a false choice - it’s easy pickings rather like a police car waiting outside a pub at 11 pm to get some easy nicks in rather than tackling knife crime a longer more dangerous task

Limited resources mean intelligent decisions have to be made so actually one does depend on the other every system has inter dependicies 

There were about 5000 schemes and they will eventually garner say a few hundred million in back taxes 

A drop in the ocean compared to corporate cross charging tax minimisation schemes, undeclared rental income and even untaxed cars 

Nice headlines though for an audience like you who thinks in binary terms 

 

Greg the bitterness of your post drips off the page. It was just your time pal. You've had 20 good years while HMRC prioritised other things. Your time was up. Thanks for the £80k.

Now HMRC have a solution in place for tax evaders like yourself they can move on to other areas. I don't mind if they go for small fry or big fry. It all tastes good when it lands on my plate. 

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10 hours ago, dragging boot straps said:

Greg the bitterness of your post drips off the page. It was just your time pal. You've had 20 good years while HMRC prioritised other things. Your time was up. Thanks for the £80k.

Now HMRC have a solution in place for tax evaders like yourself they can move on to other areas. I don't mind if they go for small fry or big fry. It all tastes good when it lands on my plate. 

Exactly. Ludicrous to suggest I should "save" my champagne as if I have to ration a short supply of it. In fact I give a metaphorical toast when every one of them gets caught, NOT JUST THE BIG GUYS. Because it is a false choice.

 

Edited by mrtickle

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On ‎06‎/‎04‎/‎2019 at 11:39, dragging boot straps said:

Greg the bitterness of your post drips off the page. It was just your time pal. You've had 20 good years while HMRC prioritised other things. Your time was up. Thanks for the £80k.

Now HMRC have a solution in place for tax evaders like yourself they can move on to other areas. I don't mind if they go for small fry or big fry. It all tastes good when it lands on my plate. 

Not bitter - pretty liquid (sold the 2006 Vantage..) but its the truth, as a job and wealth creator I know the rules. As they say the fact I had to pay tax of £80k on one years earning isn't anything anyone is going to sympathise with.

Happy to continue subsidising you because I work harder and smarter 

Trouble is doesn't land in your plate does it but continues to do on mine - happy envious Sunday comrade 

 

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1 hour ago, GregBowman said:

Not bitter - pretty liquid (sold the 2006 Vantage..) but its the truth, as a job and wealth creator I know the rules. As they say the fact I had to pay tax of £80k on one years earning isn't anything anyone is going to sympathise with.

Happy to continue subsidising you because I work harder and smarter 

Trouble is doesn't land in your plate does it but continues to do on mine - happy envious Sunday comrade 

 

Subsidise me on what? Not totally sure where you were trying to head with this. You got your hand caught in the cookie jar and your pride is stung so you're lashing out. 

That sort of prideful mindset is the kind that got you in trouble with hmrc in the first place. 

Now as for me. Please do keep working smarter and harder champ. I've retired at 32. All I do is go sailing and tidy the garden.

Edited by dragging boot straps

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On 07/04/2019 at 19:35, dragging boot straps said:

Subsidise me on what? Not totally sure where you were trying to head with this. You got your hand caught in the cookie jar and your pride is stung so you're lashing out. 

That sort of prideful mindset is the kind that got you in trouble with hmrc in the first place. 

Their campaign continues, and gets more desperate.

Even left Paul Lewis is getting fed up with their lies:

 

 

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Surprised at the lack of discussion!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00052qh/politics-live-15052019

This was covered on today's Politics Live. 

"Thousands of workers hit with unexpected tax bills for past earnings following a change in the law" - v/o footage of people bawling their eyes out in tears.

Yes BBC, "fair and balanced" it was NOT.

They're upset on twitter from the other side, that the BBC allowed the minister to lie. FFS he didn't.

 

 

Edited by mrtickle

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This campaign is always somewhat limited by the fact that if you spend 30 seconds explaining it to the millions who did pay tax and NI for the last 20 years, the likely response 'pay your taxes like I did' and limited sympathy. I wonder of the 150 MPs, how many are either personally affected, or have a close friend/associate who is.

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8 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Surprised at the lack of discussion!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00052qh/politics-live-15052019

This was covered on today's Politics Live. 

"Thousands of workers hit with unexpected tax bills for past earnings following a change in the law" - v/o footage of people bawling their eyes out in tears.

Yes BBC, "fair and balanced" it was NOT.

They're upset on twitter from the other side, that the BBC allowed the minister to lie. FFS he didn't.

 

 

Im basically self employed/contracting.

I find it jaw dropping how these vocal IR35/paid by by a loan on the Isle of Man idiots are.

Basically, you sued to pay about the same as FT employee but had some wiggle room on tax planning i.e. which tax year are paid, and could take off travel costs.

Then the idiots came and tried being FT employees but claiming they were employees. Then tried these gormless pay via a loan scams. 'so i dont pay any tax' Idiots.

Its pretty simple - you go for multiple contracts during the tax year. You cannot declare yourself a contractor then sit in the same seat for over 2 years, continuing like a employee.

It helps if you have your own 'tool's' Easy enough done as computers are cheap and you can sell a hardware based product - if you are any good - and a lot of these people are not.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Tulip_mania said:

This campaign is always somewhat limited by the fact that if you spend 30 seconds explaining it to the millions who did pay tax and NI for the last 20 years, the likely response 'pay your taxes like I did' and limited sympathy. I wonder of the 150 MPs, how many are either personally affected, or have a close friend/associate who is.

I doubt any MP is. For the simple fact that they are an MP and any consultancy/work outside of being an MP means they have >1 employee/income source.

Whether they are a diligent MP is another case.

 

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12 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Surprised at the lack of discussion!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00052qh/politics-live-15052019

This was covered on today's Politics Live. 

"Thousands of workers hit with unexpected tax bills for past earnings following a change in the law" - v/o footage of people bawling their eyes out in tears.

Yes BBC, "fair and balanced" it was NOT.

They're upset on twitter from the other side, that the BBC allowed the minister to lie. FFS he didn't.

Everyone on her thinks the BBC and FT are talking and worried about IT workers. Let’s be clear, they are not. 

Not “fair and balanced reporting” because of number of freelance journalists impacted.  Happy days 😉

We can debate the rights and wrongs but don’t expect the media to debate it properly...huge vested interest. 

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55 minutes ago, Pop321 said:

Everyone on her thinks the BBC and FT are talking and worried about IT workers. Let’s be clear, they are not. 

Not “fair and balanced reporting” because of number of freelance journalists impacted.  Happy days 😉

We can debate the rights and wrongs but don’t expect the media to debate it properly...huge vested interest. 

There's diot BBCpresenters, regional journos, a lot of 'healthcare professionals' affected.

To be honest, anyone working for the NHS claiming to be 'self employed' needs putting in an asylum.

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2 hours ago, Pindar said:

Clearly IT workers should have had better tax avoidance schemes lawyers.

 

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1 hour ago, Pop321 said:

Everyone on her thinks the BBC and FT are talking and worried about IT workers. Let’s be clear, they are not. 

Not “fair and balanced reporting” because of number of freelance journalists impacted.  Happy days 😉

We can debate the rights and wrongs but don’t expect the media to debate it properly...huge vested interest. 

If they dodged tax and used it to buy a posh house then why on earth shouldn't they lose said house? Why are houses such a religion?

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17 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Surprised at the lack of discussion!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m00052qh/politics-live-15052019

This was covered on today's Politics Live. 

"Thousands of workers hit with unexpected tax bills for past earnings following a change in the law" - v/o footage of people bawling their eyes out in tears.

Yes BBC, "fair and balanced" it was NOT.

They're upset on twitter from the other side, that the BBC allowed the minister to lie. FFS he didn't.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Si1 said:

If they dodged tax and used it to buy a posh house then why on earth shouldn't they lose said house? Why are houses such a religion?

A top question.

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Live up to what is available to you.....net income is what is available to you, unless it is more gross and less net.... actually, taking into account both income and spending taxes, those that have smaller overall incomes always pay the most percentage wise in tax......always........more people earning less pay more in taxes than less people earning more.;)

Edit to say......do people really get paid with loans, why would they want to do that then?

Edited by winkie

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14 hours ago, spyguy said:

I doubt any MP is. For the simple fact that they are an MP and any consultancy/work outside of being an MP means they have >1 employee/income source.

Whether they are a diligent MP is another case.

 

I don't think they were doing so while MPs, but many MPs were only elected since 2010. Presumably only the terminally dim have been using this dodge for the last 5 years since HMRC started explicitly stating it was a no-go area, so most of the avoidance is probably from before then.

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17 hours ago, spyguy said:

Im basically self employed/contracting.

I find it jaw dropping how these vocal IR35/paid by by a loan on the Isle of Man idiots are.

Basically, you sued to pay about the same as FT employee but had some wiggle room on tax planning i.e. which tax year are paid, and could take off travel costs.

Then the idiots came and tried being FT employees but claiming they were employees. Then tried these gormless pay via a loan scams. 'so i dont pay any tax' Idiots.

Its pretty simple - you go for multiple contracts during the tax year.

Absolutely. The most ferocious of them, in the deepest denial, are on that twitter thread. Scarily deluded stuff.

Such as:

 

 

 

Edited by mrtickle

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6 hours ago, mrtickle said:

Absolutely. The most ferocious of them, in the deepest denial, are on that twitter thread. Scarily deluded stuff.

Such as:

 

 

 

Indeed.

Over the eyars, both employed and consulting, Ive met more than may fair share of selfemployed contractors.

As a whole they used to be OK - people 10+_ years intheir career whove gone self employed for various reasons - interest, fed up with begin employed, what live in X but work in Y etc etc.

However ... theres always been a signficant minority that fall iinto the loon. If youve ever met  a common-in-law cretin - 'I am Rovbert, son of Dave. By which law do you choose to put me on trail'

Id go for a beer then theyd trot out these totally lunatic, misunderstood bit of tax law. The oversea loan is one.

Again,, I bump into people whove done what is a FT employee job, every day, for 2+ years, turning up at the same place, doing what they are told. Total nuts.

Then they go 'But I dont get paid holidays'

Teh changes to contracting, where they'll start holding the employer for tax evasion will kill of he is nuts pretence.

 

 

 

 

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On 16/05/2019 at 15:53, winkie said:

Edit to say......do people really get paid with loans, why would they want to do that then?

As I understand it - you sign up with a dodgy financial adviser who sets up a company in the Isle Of Man or similar. You get set up as a director of this company. As the company is overseas, and you reckon you are a contractor and not an employee, you invoice your 'employer' and they send your gross pay to the company in the IOM. From this IOM company you pay yourself the minimum UK wages to guarantee your NI stamp for the state pension. 

The hook is that, instead of paying yourself the rest of the money you earned as taxable wages, you produce an agreement stating that the company is giving you that money as a loan. The loan has no agreed repayment date. Of course you have just taken your wages as a pretend loan with no intention of repaying the loan.... But your accounts don't show a taxable position as the loan isn't income you pay tax on, and it has reduced the profit in your offshore company to nil.

Genuinely these people thought they could build up loans they would never have to repay without a thought to how they would build up over time, and that HMRC would never be able to tax their 'offshore company'. 

HMRC sat it out for a while waiting to see if the loans were ever repaid, then they won a landmark case against Rangers Football club. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-paid-50m-loans-stars-10035849.amp

Now they are going aggressively for people who used these schemes telling them to reply the loan and then draw the wages as taxable income, or to admit the loan was actually wages and pay back taxes and fines. 

Most IOM umbrella companies were run by firms who have now gone bust. I saw an interesting thread on contractor UK last year, 'who is luckiest?' - the contractor who can't repay his loan because the people running it have disappeared (literally) or the contractor whose offshore company is still being run,but being leaned on by HMRC and who now faces sending back many years 'loans' to the IOM to pretend he is repaying them in the hope they are honest and will send him back his wages correctly taxed. 

There is an entire forum discussing this stuff here

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/hmrc-scheme-enquiries/

Edited by regprentice

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55 minutes ago, regprentice said:

As I understand it - you sign up with a dodgy financial adviser who sets up a company in the Isle Of Man or similar. You get set up as a director of this company. As the company is overseas, and you reckon you are a contractor and not an employee, you invoice your 'employer' and they send your gross pay to the company in the IOM. From this IOM company you pay yourself the minimum UK wages to guarantee your NI stamp for the state pension. 

The hook is that, instead of paying yourself the rest of the money you earned as taxable wages, you produce an agreement stating that the company is giving you that money as a loan. The loan has no agreed repayment date. Of course you have just taken your wages as a pretend loan with no intention of repaying the loan.... But your accounts don't show a taxable position as the loan isn't income you pay tax on, and it has reduced the profit in your offshore company to nil.

Genuinely these people thought they could build up loans they would never have to repay without a thought to how they would build up over time, and that HMRC would never be able to tax their 'offshore company'. 

HMRC sat it out for a while waiting to see if the loans were ever repaid, then they won a landmark case against Rangers Football club. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-paid-50m-loans-stars-10035849.amp

Now they are going aggressively for people who used these schemes telling them to reply the loan and then draw the wages as taxable income, or to admit the loan was actually wages and pay back taxes and fines. 

Most IOM umbrella companies were run by firms who have now gone bust. I saw an interesting thread on contractor UK last year, 'who is luckiest?' - the contractor who can't repay his loan because the people running it have disappeared (literally) or the contractor whose offshore company is still being run,but being leaned on by HMRC and who now faces sending back many years 'loans' to the IOM to pretend he is repaying them in the hope they are honest and will send him back his wages correctly taxed. 

There is an entire forum discussing this stuff here

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/hmrc-scheme-enquiries/

Ive not looked - I keep wellaware from these fcktards - but no doubt therell be someone claiming theres a scheme to avoid tax and the the HMRC fine, just involve paying some money to a adviser in Panama or somewhere.

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Saw a few guys with placards protesting at the 'unfairness' of it  at London Bridge.  Warmed my heart seeing everyone ignore them.

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1 hour ago, msi said:

Saw a few guys with placards protesting at the 'unfairness' of it  at London Bridge.  Warmed my heart seeing everyone ignore them.

It's hard to put together a compelling narrative out  of "I tried to avoid tax - I got caught - and now they want the money I owe"

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43 minutes ago, Exiled Canadian said:

It's hard to put together a compelling narrative out  of "I tried to avoid tax - I got caught - and now they want the money I owe"

"I fought the law and the law won..." 😃

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