Si1 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 23 minutes ago, spyguy said: Theres nothing new here that was not pointed out 4 years ago by bland. The Mail's article, grim as it is, misses a huge issue- putting 1 or 2 rental income gross on your income is going to whack out a lot of peoples tax credits. Theres a lot of people in Lonson SE who scam both TCs and BTL. Phil Hammond amended the legislation so tax credits don't get impacted. I believe, I think, UC will, however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 10 hours ago, rollover said: Enjoy reading, and please be sensible with responses. That was a beautiful read. Thank you. It is great to see something coming together as intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ah-so Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, zilly said: Incorrect risk classification for mortgages...that rings a bell... Also strangely reminiscent in how it's being reported as a 'blunder' rather than deliberate. Didn't take long for a 'challenger' bank to begin behaving like its forebears - these people are incorrigible. Lure of fast, easy returns lending into speculative bubbles just too much to resist.The only thing that will ever bring them to heel is strong state regulation. Maybe we need another global financial disaster for that to sink in to our political thickos. The issue was uncovered internally and then handed over for further investigation to one of the Big 4's banking units and then the PRA. I doubt it was a deliberate attempt to mislead. I would expect the issue with Metro was that it grew too rapidly and the people behind the scenes in Finance were there from the very start and probably not experienced enough in RWA classifications. I would love to have been a fly on the wall in the meetings when the error got revealed. You would have seen the blood draining from the faces of executives when the implications were explained to them. More incompetence than dishonesty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 I'm cynical about this. Everything the government has implemented looks philanthropic, in that it appears to give working class people a better chance to buy the very houses their scumbag BTL landlords have been forced to sell, and reverse the damage done by the BTL phenomenon of the last couple decades. But, this has tory written all over it. Squeeze working and middle class landlords (who need mortgages) so they have little option to sell, and the financial elites (the Blairs of this world) who do not need mortgages simply hoover them up and rent them to the same mob of perpetual tenants - many of whom cannot get mortgages for various reasons. We're going truly feudal. We can't have plebs pretending to be landowning gentry, can we now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btl_hater Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Orb said: I'm cynical about this. Everything the government has implemented looks philanthropic, in that it appears to give working class people a better chance to buy the very houses their scumbag BTL landlords have been forced to sell, and reverse the damage done by the BTL phenomenon of the last couple decades. But, this has tory written all over it. Squeeze working and middle class landlords (who need mortgages) so they have little option to sell, and the financial elites (the Blairs of this world) who do not need mortgages simply hoover them up and rent them to the same mob of perpetual tenants - many of whom cannot get mortgages for various reasons. We're going truly feudal. We can't have plebs pretending to be landowning gentry, can we now? I certainly don’t trust Tories, but I can’t see why serious investors would want to buy these ex BTLs after years of bad maintenance, randomly distrubuted locally, and with most not exactly reflecting the best housing stock. ”Investors” who do not need mortgages, like the Blair’s, must be few and far between, surely? Edited January 24, 2019 by btl_hater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch625 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 Thanks so much for that article! When what has been talked about on this site for years as inevitable truths finally hits the main stream, you know it's just the start. The comments are very interesting, still plenty of people in denial, comments like "I will just buy more properties", "we are considering selling in a few years" and that old chestnut about houses not held by a landlord somehow magically vanishing from the housing stock, so I don't expect immediate changes. But if this starts a mortgaged landlords sweating then happy days. I tend to agree with those that have mentioned that the major problem is not landlords alone, but mortgaged landlords. In some local areas, like Cornwall, this isn't the whole problem. In Cornwall a lot of houses are second/holiday homes and this has a radical effect on driving up prices in what is a poor area of the UK, how many of those have been purchased with debt? Probably quite a few, but before all this madness was inflated by the red, blue, yellow house price obsessed parties, there was already a problem, so sadly even if this causes those mortgaged landlords to face the effects of their toxic financial decisions, I still don't see it resolving the local housing issues in my county. One of the biggest financial bits of news to hit the main stream media in decades, but funny thing I haven't seen it mentioned on the BBC, go figure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freki Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 @Orb if you think those rich landlords don't have debt, you are gravely mistaken. All of them piled up on debt as much as possible. They certainly have a net positive asset valuation, but they don't buy cash their empire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 14 hours ago, zilly said: The only thing that will ever bring them to heel is strong state regulation. Naive. They are collapsing and losing everything. In a capitalist world, their personal assets would be on the line and "my family is losing the roof over their heads" would be deterrent enough, but the government is stealing from everyone else to protect these parasites. The government is the problem, not the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorrowToLeech Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, winkie said: Not got a problem with buying to let......the problem is borrowing to buy to let. Making a profit from debt, getting tax relief from debt.....like borrowing to use it to gamble with. Hell no. Landlording is a legalised protection racket and has no place in a civilised world. Landlords are always a drain on the economy, regardless of whether they borrowed money to buy someone else’s home, earned the money to buy someone else’s home or invaded from France with a sword and seized someone else’s home Edited January 24, 2019 by BorrowToLeech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyguy Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Freki said: if you think those rich landlords don't have debt, you are gravely mistaken. All of them piled up on debt as much as possible. They certainly have a net positive asset valuation, but they don't buy cash their empire So you know their personal circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 30 minutes ago, happyguy said: So you know their personal circumstances? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 8 hours ago, Freki said: @Orb if you think those rich landlords don't have debt, you are gravely mistaken. All of them piled up on debt as much as possible. They certainly have a net positive asset valuation, but they don't buy cash their empire I'm talking super rich folk. Those who can and will spend a few hundred million buying half of one town. If there's a huge glut of housing being squeezed from the clutches of the white Range Rover type of working class mortgaged-to-the-hilt landlord, and many tenants cannot get mortgages, it looks as if somebody, whether an individual or a property investment company can hoover them up at knockdown prices. We then shift the corporate and oligarchical influence over our lives into ever sharper focus, for whom tax bills remain as low as ever through the ever complex system of offshore companies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted January 24, 2019 Share Posted January 24, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Orb said: I'm talking super rich folk. Those who can and will spend a few hundred million buying half of one town. If there's a huge glut of housing being squeezed from the clutches of the white Range Rover type of working class mortgaged-to-the-hilt landlord, and many tenants cannot get mortgages, it looks as if somebody, whether an individual or a property investment company can hoover them up at knockdown prices. We then shift the corporate and oligarchical influence over our lives into ever sharper focus, for whom tax bills remain as low as ever through the ever complex system of offshore companies. Why would a super rich person want to drop half a billion on a couple of thousand crap UK houses? Illiquid, poor yields, lots of active management required, huge political risk as the priced-out vote for politicians who will use the tax system to move property into owner occupier hands. They have better things to do with their money. Edited January 24, 2019 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger1234 Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 https://www.ftadviser.com/mortgages/2019/03/22/landlords-switch-to-limited-companies/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Tiger1234 said: https://www.ftadviser.com/mortgages/2019/03/22/landlords-switch-to-limited-companies/ Oh if onoy it was that easy /.... Any existing LL would need to sell the portfolio to the LtdCo, takign a alrge hit. Then they need to pay much more for the mortgage debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Kirk Posted March 24, 2019 Share Posted March 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Tiger1234 said: https://www.ftadviser.com/mortgages/2019/03/22/landlords-switch-to-limited-companies/ Disguised investments. HMRC won't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy2x3 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 the article missed out one of the main reasons landlords are selling up. a £200k flat only commands a rent thats about £800 that 4% a year when if the mortgaged the repair and interest would eat any potential profit. infact many would make a loss, this was ok when prices jumped but when they stagnate as they have done in vast parts of the country for years outside the south east then your paying to be a landlord. and if you own the property outright you best grab they high prices whike you can and you can get a better return on the stock market or high interest rate accounts so why would you bother with all that hassle of running a property letting buisness. in otherwords the the very thing they wanted ie high house prices has destroyed the buisness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnglishinWales Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Tories know their survival rests on home ownership, I think they really do want BTL to reduce and for middle class tenants to become homeowners. Lords and Earls owning 10,000 houses each probably isn't the plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 On 23/01/2019 at 18:18, spyguy said: If only NR had had a large crsytal ball shaped object in the CEOs office that they could use to see the future ... You mean a properly maintained set of accounts and a risk management department? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 4 minutes ago, Si1 said: You mean a properly maintained set of accounts and a risk management department? No. I meant polishing Adam Applegarth's head..... It might have been more use ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si1 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, spyguy said: No. I meant polishing Adam Applegarth's head..... It might have been more use ... When the crisis hit they didn't even have any records of their company financial position. They were a total shambles. Simply incompetent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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