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Are Tony and Cherie the new Fergus and Judith?

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22 hours ago, Unmoderated said:

These days when people say "I'm voting Labour all over their Facebook" I just read "I'm a grinning myopic cretin with a degree in basket weaving".

Blair was and is a Tory, and everyone voting for Corbyn is aware of that.

Edited by BorrowToLeech

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3 hours ago, BorrowToLeech said:

Blair was and is a Tory, and everyone voting for Corbyn is aware of that.

Nah, he was Labour it said so on his badge. Agreed that he had some characteristics of the Tories, but look at the public sector spending for instance. Very un-Tory-like. 

House prices to the moon under Blair and Brown. Brown also removed the indexation of inflation from RPI (includes housing) to CPI (excludes housing) to the BOE with its new found freedom to manage inflation had an inflation scope that excluded housing. 

Corbynomics is imho extremely myopic, but granted he is far more of a leftist than Blair. 

Remember the pledge to scrap student fees and loans? Downgraded to an aspiration. At least they're aspiring to do it I suppose but then they wouldn't need to had Blair's Labour pushed anyone able to read and write (and in some cases not) through to uni. 

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I need to stop reading this thread as it makes my blood pressure rise! But I'm glad there seems to be a few of us who recognise what pure evil scum (BTL scum at that!) he is.

What i find astonishing is the fact that the the Chilcot conclusion was announced during the mid-brexit chaos?? Talk about burying the news. How would that decision to announce it then come about? And who would have made that decision? Was that scheduled for that date originally?

Oh and lets not forget Dr David Kelly's "suicide".

One more thing, there are still a lot of people who thinks the sun shines out of his backside, a friend of mine included. i just don't get it, are those people so dense? Why can they not see what we see? Did we all take the red pill here on HPC!?

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17 hours ago, workingatthepyramid said:

Could be on the cards if we get a Corbyn government.

Probably quite a few members of the armed forces who hold him personally responsible for the death of mates as well.

Wouldn't be surprised if he has a few sleepless nights wondering what might be coming down the line.

I don't believe that will ever happen but what a potential vote winner with the general public!

Loved Bliar's testy reply the other week when asked if Corbs had ever sought his advice about, well, anything? As if.

 

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19 hours ago, zugzwang said:

I don't believe that will ever happen but what a potential vote winner with the general public!

Regular justice won't touch the Blairs; I heard they're spending their later years skulking in the States for protection (and Blair has private security now).

With this "five minutes of hatred" thread, I'm now reminded of the senseless, inexplicable Jo Cox murder - be careful what we wish for. The centuries old Westminster system has always been flawed, maybe now even terminally ill, but what will the alternative be by 2050?

EDIT - Also Cherie now looks very melted and ill, females involved in politics don't seem to be renowned for their looks (see also Merkel, Thatcher, and Hillary).

Edited by Big Orange

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27 minutes ago, Big Orange said:

Regular justice won't touch the Blairs; I heard they're spending their later years skulking in the States for protection (and Blair has private security now).

With this "five minutes of hatred" thread, I'm now reminded of the senseless, inexplicable Jo Cox murder - be careful what we wish for. The centuries old Westminster system has always been flawed, maybe now even terminally ill, but what will the alternative be by 2050?

EDIT - Also Cherie now looks very melted and ill, females involved in politics don't seem to be renowned for their looks (see also Merkel, Thatcher, and Hillary).

Good 

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22 hours ago, Unmoderated said:

Nah, he was Labour it said so on his badge. Agreed that he had some characteristics of the Tories, but look at the public sector spending for instance. Very un-Tory-like. 

House prices to the moon under Blair and Brown. Brown also removed the indexation of inflation from RPI (includes housing) to CPI (excludes housing) to the BOE with its new found freedom to manage inflation had an inflation scope that excluded housing. 

Corbynomics is imho extremely myopic, but granted he is far more of a leftist than Blair. 

Remember the pledge to scrap student fees and loans? Downgraded to an aspiration. At least they're aspiring to do it I suppose but then they wouldn't need to had Blair's Labour pushed anyone able to read and write (and in some cases not) through to uni. 

Very true - how can anyone support a party which now says "Sorry our leader for 13 years was of a different party".

It is a bit of a mistake to not notice it.

 

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2 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Very true - how can anyone support a party which now says "Sorry our leader for 13 years was of a different party".

It is a bit of a mistake to not notice it.

 

I voted for Blair in 1997 believing that he represented a material challenge to the neoliberal consensus of Thatcher and Major. Obviously not, and I didn't vote for him again.

Is it not the case that Tory voters were similarly blindsided by Cameron and Osborne in 2010, and again 2015?

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19 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

I voted for Blair in 1997 believing that he represented a material challenge to the neoliberal consensus of Thatcher and Major. Obviously not, and I didn't vote for him again.

Is it not the case that Tory voters were similarly blindsided by Cameron and Osborne in 2010, and again 2015?

But Tory voters don't claim that Cameron was a socialist do they? If they did the comparison would be fair.

Also I might vote Tory* but not because I think May is good (that would be crazy)- but because I think Labour would be even worse.

*Ideally UKIP but there might not be a candidate - although I can't say that they are brilliant but I think the others are worse.  Saying that as I know people who have been to prison so I really like UKIP's views on prisons (sorry I can't go into details).

Edited by iamnumerate

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1 hour ago, zugzwang said:

I voted for Blair in 1997 believing that he represented a material challenge to the neoliberal consensus of Thatcher and Major. Obviously not, and I didn't vote for him again.

Is it not the case that Tory voters were similarly blindsided by Cameron and Osborne in 2010, and again 2015?

Same here re 1997 vote.

I was also a bit surprised at what the Tories did, or rather didn't do, on housing and the economy. They could have built a lot of houses very quickly and removed the props for them which would have increased the supply and increase affordability by bringing prices down. The whole thing could have been blamed on Labour. 

The increase in building so many more houses would have been a benefit to the govt tax receipts through stamp duty and other taxes, plus the VAT element on all the crap people tend to buy when moving into a new place, etc etc. Instead they decided not to address the real problem and come up with HTB which sort of got more houses built since developers could make a mint out of them but didn't do much to impact prices. 

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1 hour ago, Unmoderated said:

Same here re 1997 vote.

I was also a bit surprised at what the Tories did, or rather didn't do, on housing and the economy. They could have built a lot of houses very quickly and removed the props for them which would have increased the supply and increase affordability by bringing prices down. The whole thing could have been blamed on Labour. 

The increase in building so many more houses would have been a benefit to the govt tax receipts through stamp duty and other taxes, plus the VAT element on all the crap people tend to buy when moving into a new place, etc etc. Instead they decided not to address the real problem and come up with HTB which sort of got more houses built since developers could make a mint out of them but didn't do much to impact prices. 

I suppose they were worried that a house price crash would destroy the Government owned banks (thanks again Gordon).

Otherwise that would  have been a good plan.

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Corbyn is from a different party. The socialist left of the Parliamentary labour party, which was strong in early 80s, was reduced to a powerless rump of about two dozen mps by the time he was elected(peter mendelson said he wanted to seal them in a tomb) The only way he just scraped the 30 vote freshold to get on the original ballot paper was mps totally opposed to his politics like margaret becket and frank field giving him their vote as a token nod to democracy, under the reasonable assumption he had zero chance of winning. Just look at the hostility to corbyn from the majority of his mps such as chris leslie, who hate him much more than the tories. 

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On 25/01/2019 at 10:46, Big Orange said:

Regular justice won't touch the Blairs; I heard they're spending their later years skulking in the States for protection (and Blair has private security now).

With this "five minutes of hatred" thread, I'm now reminded of the senseless, inexplicable Jo Cox murder - be careful what we wish for. The centuries old Westminster system has always been flawed, maybe now even terminally ill, but what will the alternative be by 2050?

EDIT - Also Cherie now looks very melted and ill, females involved in politics don't seem to be renowned for their looks (see also Merkel, Thatcher, and Hillary).

There were theories circulating at the time, some on this site too I think, that the Cox murder was a long way away from inexplicable. 

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On 25/01/2019 at 10:46, Big Orange said:

Regular justice won't touch the Blairs; I heard they're spending their later years skulking in the States for protection (and Blair has private security now).

With this "five minutes of hatred" thread, I'm now reminded of the senseless, inexplicable Jo Cox murder - be careful what we wish for. The centuries old Westminster system has always been flawed, maybe now even terminally ill, but what will the alternative be by 2050?

EDIT - Also Cherie now looks very melted and ill, females involved in politics don't seem to be renowned for their looks (see also Merkel, Thatcher, and Hillary).

The person who murdered Jo Cox had mental health problems - the same as the only ever person to murder a UK prime minister.  It is not that inexplicable that people with a deluded view of the world murder an innocent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/jo-cox-killing-who-is-suspect-tommy-mair-1.2689420

(Although both were judged to be sane at the time).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bellingham

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4 hours ago, longgone said:

when did tony marry Pete Doherty ?

 

s0iiWpl.png&f=1

By Christ, Fergus has put on some weight!!

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On 25/01/2019 at 12:02, iamnumerate said:

Very true - how can anyone support a party which now says "Sorry our leader for 13 years was of a different party".

It is a bit of a mistake to not notice it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/jun/10/labour.uk1

Plenty of labour members did notice.  Much of Blair’s support was from floating voters rather than traditional Labour voters, certainly post 1997. 

Sure, if you’re only concern in politics is blind tribalism, then not voting Labour because of Blair might make some kind of sense, although tribal politics itself is irrational.

But criticising people voting for Corbyn because of the failures of Blair means you simply do not understand modern British politics.  If you hated Blair’s politics, and that’s your main motivation in voting, then Corbyn is really the only person to vote for, at the moment.

Edited by BorrowToLeech

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On 25/01/2019 at 15:25, iamnumerate said:

But Tory voters don't claim that Cameron was a socialist do they? If they did the comparison would be fair.

Also I might vote Tory* but not because I think May is good (that would be crazy)- but because I think Labour would be even worse.

*Ideally UKIP but there might not be a candidate - although I can't say that they are brilliant but I think the others are worse.  Saying that as I know people who have been to prison so I really like UKIP's views on prisons (sorry I can't go into details).

I have heard this claim made, yes, but it’s mostly not true.  

In fact, a similar thing has happened in the Conservative party, but it preceded Cameron. It’s just that Tories, who traditionally are less ideological anyway, do not like to acknowledge the issue.

In their case, of course, it was Thatcher who was not really a conservative. This certainly was pointed out at the time, but memories have faded along with genuine conservatism and genuine socialism.

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Society and politics since 1979 has become much more economically right wing but more socially liberal. Harold Macmillans or ted heaths conservative governments were more economically left wing than New Labour. 

However, imagine somebody who joined the Conservative Party in the 1950s when homosexuality was still illegal, there was capital punishment, corporal punishment in schools, national service, grammar schools,  children out of wedlock was considered shameful etc. And that conservative party member believed in those things fully, and thought a true conservative government should too. Im pretty sure that person would regard david cameron and the modern day conservative party as traitors.

A lot of the actual tory rank and file probably do still hold these views to some extent, but much effort was put into "detoxifying"  their brand by David Cameron, such as stage managing their conference so nobody got up and did a "hang them flog them" speech. 

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10 hours ago, BorrowToLeech said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/jun/10/labour.uk1

Plenty of labour members did notice.  Much of Blair’s support was from floating voters rather than traditional Labour voters, certainly post 1997. 

Sure, if you’re only concern in politics is blind tribalism, then not voting Labour because of Blair might make some kind of sense, although tribal politics itself is irrational.

But criticising people voting for Corbyn because of the failures of Blair means you simply do not understand modern British politics.  If you hated Blair’s politics, and that’s your main motivation in voting, then Corbyn is really the only person to vote for, at the moment.

I could never vote for a party whose junior woman's minister said

Quote

Those abused girls in Rotherham and elsewhere just need to shut their mouths. For the good of diversity".

and never even apologised!

 

Also sadly there is at least one Blairite policy Corbyn supports - opposing the benefit cap.

Edited by iamnumerate

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5 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

I could never vote for a party whose junior woman's minister said

and never even apologised!

I reckon that voting for someone like Corbyn has more to do with blind tribalism than rational thinking. I see that in some of my Geordie friends. Family votes Labour, no matter what. Tory Scum, etc. Yet, they all bitch and moan about exactly the same things the Tory voters do. It's closer to supporting a football team than to making a choice. 

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1 minute ago, stuckmojo said:

I reckon that voting for someone like Corbyn has more to do with blind tribalism than rational thinking. I see that in some of my Geordie friends. Family votes Labour, no matter what. Tory Scum, etc. Yet, they all bitch and moan about exactly the same things the Tory voters do. It's closer to supporting a football team than to making a choice. 

Sadly very true - the same is true for a lot of Tories voters.  I reckon a lot of Tory and Labour voters would probably be happier voting UKIP but they have also supported the same football team, sorry I mean party.

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