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ftb_fml

"UK household demand for credit card borrowing plunges at record pace amid Brexit uncertainty"

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Independent / BOE.

Of course it's all Brexit's fault..

creditcard.jpg?w660
Regardless a pretty shocking decline and a trend that's only going to hammer retail spending further, with all the fallout to be expected as a result.

I find it interesting that people are apparently willfully reigning in their debt (economic pragmatism doesn't seem like a strength of the average consumer). Also, since debt seems to be the core problem around which our ruined economy revolves, a decrease in its uptake has to be encouraging. 

Edited by ftb_fml

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17 minutes ago, ftb_fml said:

Independent / BOE.

Of course it's all Brexit's fault..


Regardless a pretty shocking decline and a trend that's only going to hammer retail spending further, with all the fallout to be expected as a result.

I find it interesting that people are apparently willfully reigning in their debt (economic pragmatism doesn't seem like a strength of the average consumer). Also, since debt's seems to be the core problem around which our ruined economy revolves, a decrease in its uptake has to be encouraging. 

-20.7.

That's an extraordinary drop. All but guarantees a recession. B)

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Good find and this is before the upcoming downturn really bites.  There seems to be a clear correlation with confidence over this time frame.

Edited by dougless

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4 minutes ago, zugzwang said:

-20.7.

That's an extraordinary drop. All but guarantees a recession. B)

It is - certainly looks "promising" if it's part of a growing trend and keys in nicely with the rest of the retail misery / general downturn narrative.

4 minutes ago, dougless said:

Good find and this is before the upcoming downturn really bites.  There seems to be a clear correlation with confidence over this time frame.

Thanks and yes; I feel the same. It seems to me there are two stages in the voluntary reduction of private spending; firstly it's subtle, measured, isolated and quiet in response to real, tangible experiences encountered first hand in daily life. Then as this feeds back into the public consciousness through the media, sentiment changes more rapidly to create an ever-snowballing feedback loop as confidence crumbles and mass hysteria sets in. I think we're currently transitioning between those two stages :)

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6 minutes ago, thewig said:

Take on more fcking DEBT you stupid fcking plebs!!!  

Thankfully it seems that the plebs aren't listening for once; although I'd have expected this lack of uptake to be out of cruel necessity rather than pragmatic choice. I guess there are still plenty of people out there with disposible income for whom discretionary spending remains a choice (albeit one they're choosing to reign in), rather than all those at the bottom of the pile who rely on perpetually-renewed debt to cover their cost of living.

3 minutes ago, Errol said:

The attempts to link everything to Brexit are just hilarious.

Indeed. It concerns me that the public have (unsurprisingly) been so wholly sold on the idea that Brexit is responsible for all the problems facing the country (that in fact are mostly the result of years of governmental greed and mis-management) that if we end up remaining (as it looking increasingly possible) it will cause a totally disproportionate bounce in public sentiment and re-ignite all the debt-fuelled asset bubble growth that we've seen collapsing over the past year or two.

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10 minutes ago, ftb_fml said:

It is - certainly looks "promising" if it's part of a growing trend and keys in nicely with the rest of the retail misery / general downturn narrative.

The debt has to be paid for at some point (well OK maybe not if you listen to some people), so it really shouldn't make more than a temporary downwards tick. Retailers grumbling about it should think about how much more they could sell if people weren't also paying interest on everything they've bought.

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12 minutes ago, Errol said:

The attempts to link everything to Brexit are just hilarious.

This.

It's beyond ridiculous. Whilst the plebs may be forgiven for Brexitvision, what worries me greatly is the fact that this narrative is not being more strongly challenged by the media - I wonder why that is??

The simple reason for this is, everybody is tapped out - spent up. So much of peoples income is wrapped up in servicing existing debts/mortgage/rent/car this was always going to happen. An inevitable consequence of Mr Carney's low interest bonanza.

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18 minutes ago, Smiley George said:

what worries me greatly is the fact that this narrative is not being more strongly challenged by the media - I wonder why that is??

The media are in on it! The media are very against Brexit except perhaps the Mail, Express, Sun who have their own agenda. The rest are all establishment neo-liberal mouth pieces.

See this link where I quote a Sky News article from today. I lost count of how many times Brexit was mentioned but bolded all of them. The whole page is bolded!

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/233866-rics-house-sales-outlook-weakest-on-record/&do=findComment&comment=1103444702

I have used Sky News for many many years and am finding it hard to break the habit, but I have noticed in recent years, possibly since Murdoch started having issues, that they got rid of all their centre right people and now just pushes its pet neo-liberal causes constantly.

Every other story is about how terrible Trump or Brexit is, or is femanazi propaganda, or green propaganda, or softly softly on izlarm, not daring to touch Rotheram. Correspondents are ex-labour party when in uni etc. But this is the same for all MSM now except the three above who are sh!t in their own way due to being old money establishment mouth pieces.

MSM is disgusting. Not a single news organisation represents the people.

Edited by AdamoMucci

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44 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

The debt has to be paid for at some point (well OK maybe not if you listen to some people), so it really shouldn't make more than a temporary downwards tick. Retailers grumbling about it should think about how much more they could sell if people weren't also paying interest on everything they've bought.

there not though 

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Am I the only one that doesn't understand the Y axis or the only one that understands that he doesn't understand the Y axis?

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1 hour ago, thewig said:

Take on more fcking DEBT you stupid fcking plebs!!!  

They need govt help!

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Very volatile data set?  I find it hard to believe demand for unsecured credit swings around so wildly.

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1 hour ago, AdamoMucci said:

The media are in on it!

MSM is disgusting. Not a single news organisation represents the people.

Indeed they are on both counts, for all manner of reasons - few of which align with the benefit of those of the general populace..

 

24 minutes ago, Ah-so said:

Am I the only one that doesn't understand the Y axis or the only one that understands that he doesn't understand the Y axis?

Maybe.. granted the presentation and labelling is all over the place. I took it as quarterly demand for credit - i.e. in the final quarter of last year demand for credit felly by 21% compared to the preceding quarter of the same year.

A 2nd-set GCSE (or whatever the modern dumbed-down alternative is now) maths student could probably make a better job of presenting the data in a legible and informative way. I suspect this superiority over the BOE might also extend to "other" areas too - like running the bloody economy..

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1 hour ago, AdamoMucci said:

The media are in on it! The media are very against Brexit except perhaps the Mail, Express, Sun who have their own agenda. The rest are all establishment neo-liberal mouth pieces.

See this link where I quote a Sky News article from today. I lost count of how many times Brexit was mentioned but bolded all of them. The whole page is bolded!

https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/233866-rics-house-sales-outlook-weakest-on-record/&do=findComment&comment=1103444702

I have used Sky News for many many years and am finding it hard to break the habit, but I have noticed in recent years, possibly since Murdoch started having issues, that they got rid of all their centre right people and now just pushes its pet neo-liberal causes constantly.

Every other story is about how terrible Trump or Brexit is, or is femanazi propaganda, or green propaganda, or softly softly on izlarm, not daring to touch Rotheram. Correspondents are ex-labour party when in uni etc. But this is the same for all MSM now except the three above who are sh!t in their own way due to being old money establishment mouth pieces.

MSM is disgusting. Not a single news organisation represents the people.

It was kind of a rhetorical question.

However, you've nailed it, agree with all of that.

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On the radio this morning they were interviewing a woman who had saved up a house deposit by collecting money saving coupons.

She explained that when she left Uni and rented a house, her bank account was in the red every month, due to various loans, credit card debt, car on HPI etc. and she couldn't understand why her account never got into the black. Then she discovered Money Saving Expert, cleared some debt and searched out money saving coupons/discounts which apparently got her a 15k deposit for a house. The presenter was lapping this up as some sort of magic money tree, and that everyone wanted to know where to find these coupons. The woman did not say what she did for a job or how much she earnt of course, she may of been earning a high salary relative to her outgoings but I guess no one would want to hear that, it was the magic coupons that did it.

So there's the solution to buying a house, buy lots of crap with 'money off' coupons.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

The debt has to be paid for at some point (well OK maybe not if you listen to some people), so it really shouldn't make more than a temporary downwards tick. Retailers grumbling about it should think about how much more they could sell if people weren't also paying interest on everything they've bought.

And, of course, if they payed their people more...but that doesn't fit within the rigid  framework of our fundamentalist, hyper-financialised system geared up for one thing and one thing only - short-term rewards for financial speculators, whose trickle-down munificence will pour down on us all and endow us with riches.

Or maybe not.

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1 hour ago, longgone said:

there not though 

Too many seem to avoid it but I can't believe most do, why would the lenders lend to them if not for the opportunity to bleed people dry?

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3 hours ago, thewig said:

Take on more fcking DEBT you stupid fcking plebs!!!  

you can swear that is cool

1 hour ago, stuckmojo said:

But that's got ****** all to do with Brexit. 

Oh no if a person picks his nose it is due to Brexit 

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32 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Too many seem to avoid it but I can't believe most do, why would the lenders lend to them if not for the opportunity to bleed people dry?

transaction fees and forgetting to pay on time the fines stack up. 😉

although there is a maximum amount they will lend over a range of cards. 

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1 hour ago, ftb_fml said:

Indeed they are on both counts, for all manner of reasons - few of which align with the benefit of those of the general populace..

 

Maybe.. granted the presentation and labelling is all over the place. I took it as quarterly demand for credit - i.e. in the final quarter of last year demand for credit felly by 21% compared to the preceding quarter of the same year.

A 2nd-set GCSE (or whatever the modern dumbed-down alternative is now) maths student could probably make a better job of presenting the data in a legible and informative way. I suspect this superiority over the BOE might also extend to "other" areas too - like running the bloody economy..

Whatever you think of the BOE, they are actually pretty good at presenting data in graphical forms - the Financial Stability reports are very clear. This report has come from somewhere called "Macrobond".

It may be a quarter on quarter fall, but it could also be vs the same quarter a year earlier.

Also, if the impact is compounding, the drop in the past quarter should almost nothing compared to how it grew 2014 onwards.

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  • 293 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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