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I'm not entirely sure I understand life

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3 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

"Grass growing in it" implies a hole in the ground and no sewer or even septic tank.

It was through the wall, the slag that held the bricks together.:D

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So nice and draughty too then? Well, should keep the air fresher.

Vainly trying to get back on topic I think the point is that there's a point at which material standards of living become reasonably OK, and other things play a much bigger part in how happy and satisfying life is, yet people carry on pursuing more of that material. The point of becoming OK might change from person to person (personally speaking neither having to grub around in dirt all day just to barely survive nor living a thoroughly sterile, hands off, effortless life appeal) but we should all bear in it in mind. We evolved in an environment where there never was enough, hence the drive to always have more, whether that's food or comfort.

I tend to view such developments as going along the line from:

Insufficient to survive -> grim -> tough -> OK -> pleasant -> starting to get silly -> hate it

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15 minutes ago, winkie said:

No, why do that, that would not benefit you or anyone else.....instead of concentrating on what you can't or won't do, why not work at what you can do and enjoy doing.;)

agony uncle ?

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1 minute ago, Riedquat said:

So nice and draughty too then? Well, should keep the air fresher.

Vainly trying to get back on topic I think the point is that there's a point at which material standards of living become reasonably OK, and other things play a much bigger part in how happy and satisfying life is, yet people carry on pursuing more of that material. The point of becoming OK might change from person to person (personally speaking neither having to grub around in dirt all day just to barely survive nor living a thoroughly sterile, hands off, effortless life appeal) but we should all bear in it in mind. We evolved in an environment where there never was enough, hence the drive to always have more, whether that's food or comfort.

I tend to view such developments as going along the line from:

Insufficient to survive -> grim -> tough -> OK -> pleasant -> starting to get silly -> hate it

I think you are absolutely right, we all need a job to do, it doesn't have to be a paid job or a job that pays a lot, but something to strive for, a goal, a target to achieve.....something we feel that makes our life worthwhile.....different things for different people, we all have different gifts and talents, wants and needs.....maybe all a matter of finding out what they are and using them.....as they say if you don't use it, or work at improving it, you lose it.;)

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2 minutes ago, winkie said:

Only you can know what you want to do....I can't believe it is nothing.;)

well i got to 41 not having a clue.  no idea. anything that pays bills work is work after all.  my time in exchange for menial funds. 

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1 minute ago, longgone said:

well i got to 41 not having a clue.  no idea. anything that pays bills work is work after all.  my time in exchange for menial funds. 

Sorry to hear that, that the work you do is not satisfying for you, more of a chore.....I am quite sure you are not alone in this.....still got lots of life in you yet, hope you find a job of some kind that you do enjoy doing most of the time.....nobody likes their job all of the time.;)

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30 minutes ago, winkie said:

Sorry to hear that, that the work you do is not satisfying for you, more of a chore.....I am quite sure you are not alone in this.....still got lots of life in you yet, hope you find a job of some kind that you do enjoy doing most of the time.....nobody likes their job all of the time.;)

i have not worked via employment since 2011 so you could say i am living how i want to already just unable to live like that long term. 

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50 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Insufficient to survive -> grim -> tough -> OK -> pleasant -> starting to get silly -> hate it

I guess by the 70s most of the UK were getting to OK/ pleasant (if you had a job).

Gas heating/ Fridge/ Washing Machine/ Home telephone/ Colour TV with three channels/ Car or regular bus service to get you about.

But... That wasn't enough... They have to keep selling you things!  Aspirational is the word I think, some people see it as a competition.

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1 hour ago, frankief said:

I guess by the 70s most of the UK were getting to OK/ pleasant (if you had a job).

Gas heating/ Fridge/ Washing Machine/ Home telephone/ Colour TV with three channels/ Car or regular bus service to get you about.

But... That wasn't enough... They have to keep selling you things!  Aspirational is the word I think, some people see it as a competition.

Yeah, certainly by the 70s, probably a bit earlier for me personally I reckon. Most / all of the things I probably wouldn't want to live without had been invented a fair bit earlier but wouldn't have been easily available to most people for quite a while. The problem looking back is that people shy away from the 70s because of the economic situation at the time - like you say - if you had a job, and lump that together with the available standard of living but they're really two separate issues. I think I could've got by pre-war if (and admittedly it's a reasonably big if) I liked where I lived and had a decent paying job, but that would've been harder to get then even without considering the even worse economic situation, working conditions would probably be more offputting than living conditions by then. Definitely OK by the 60s, I think my material needs would've been entirely satisfied by that point.

Edited by Riedquat

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I identify a lot with the OP. My personality has changed significantly as I’ve got older. On Myers-Brigg I came up half introvert half extrovert but I’d say I’ve become much more the former as an adult. Like a lot of younger lads I responded more to peer pressure, now whilst I try to be agreeable I don’t care excessively about others’ opinions of me, especially people I don’t know. (Maybe I now have a lower view of ‘the masses.’

 

Much of my social life used to be based around sport and drinking, two things I’m no longer that interested in. Most of my interests are more solo now and whilst I like to keep in touch with good friends and family I don’t feel the need to be out meeting people every night.

 

I think there’s some sexism here in regards to women who I don’t find noticeably more materialistic/image conscious than men these days. I’ve shacked up with a good one who doesn’t care about money , perhaps as she had it. Beyond a certain level (which for me is low: having the food I want, comfy accommodation and not worrying about emergency medical/safety needs), time and knowledge/self-development becomes more valuable than 'stuff' (eating out, gadgets, holidays, luxury goods etc)

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17 hours ago, Riedquat said:

Had an argument with someone once who thought that ever faster travel was a good thing. Just think about all the exciting places you could get to easily, he said. Wouldn't it be great if you could easily hop over to Tokyo for the weekend!

We're on the verge of near-instant travel here on Earth. In a few years you'll be able to log into your VR system, rent a drone in Tokyo, and 'be' there right away. No more need to move your body around.

But you're right, the increasing ease of travel is one of the things that's destroying diversity everywhere. You go to another country and find yourself surrounded by the same people you'd meet anywhere else.

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VR's got quite some way to go before it genuinely feels like being in a place. Some of the current shortcomings I can see being overcome (field of view and resolution) but locomotion remains an issue, and even things like not being able to physically touch a door handle to open a door take away from it quite a bit. It'll be quite a while before those are solved.

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On 21/01/2019 at 10:23, Riedquat said:

Modern life provides the necessities and more easily enough

I don't think that's true, hence the existence of this website. 10-12 years of gross income for an average person to live in an average house, so after interest and income tax+NI that's probably every penny you earn for 20 years. That is a huge amount of effort, certainly not "easily enough".

Edited by Dorkins

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On 22/01/2019 at 11:07, Riedquat said:

... even things like not being able to physically touch a door handle to open a door take away from it quite a bit. It'll be quite a while before those are solved.

Yours for $250

Have no experience myself.

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On 27/01/2019 at 15:01, Dorkins said:

I don't think that's true, hence the existence of this website. 10-12 years of gross income for an average person to live in an average house, so after interest and income tax+NI that's probably every penny you earn for 20 years. That is a huge amount of effort, certainly not "easily enough".

That's an issue with the system we've got rather than the means we've got. Go back in history and we simply couldn't produce enough, reliably enough, for more than a few people to live with a decent level of comfort and certainty. That certainly isn't the case now. We're more than capable of doing so (well OK maybe not on a global scale, sustainably) but instead the problems we face in that area concern distribution and organisation. I've said this before but we've fundamentally cracked the technological problems of life needed to provide those necessities and certainties, which is what I was getting at. The ones we've not cracked are social, and one part of my "more technology!" dislike that I frequently demonstrate is because it keeps getting pushed as the solution to social, not technological, problems.

There'll also always be a few who slip through the cracks even in utopia.

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

That's an issue with the system we've got rather than the means we've got. Go back in history and we simply couldn't produce enough, reliably enough, for more than a few people to live with a decent level of comfort and certainty. That certainly isn't the case now. We're more than capable of doing so (well OK maybe not on a global scale, sustainably) but instead the problems we face in that area concern distribution and organisation. I've said this before but we've fundamentally cracked the technological problems of life needed to provide those necessities and certainties, which is what I was getting at. The ones we've not cracked are social, and one part of my "more technology!" dislike that I frequently demonstrate is because it keeps getting pushed as the solution to social, not technological, problems.

There'll also always be a few who slip through the cracks even in utopia.

technologically we're capable of controlling population and even the make-up of that population - but it isn't considered to be a technological question, the mix of what/how you do it, it's considered an ethical question.

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1 hour ago, Riedquat said:

Quite - these aren't technological issues and therefore technological development is not the answer to them.

yes, but what on earth do you do? it's rather taboo most of it....

 

the least qualified people have the most babies, it's scary

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23 hours ago, Arpeggio said:

170px-Sensorama-morton-heilig-virtual-re       Thesentineltree1.JPG

Ah, The Sentinel. Thought that was amazing back in the day. Good for making you panic, once that buzzing started.

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33 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Ah, The Sentinel. Thought that was amazing back in the day. Good for making you panic, once that buzzing started. 

I played The Sentinel on the Amiga. I used to have a program called Imagine 3.0 for 3D modelling but it took at least an hour to render anything half decent on 4-8MB RAM of the time. A 4MB RAM expansion was a sandwich sized box you'd stick on the side of the Amiga.

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Must've flown on the Amiga, I played it on the BBC B (the screenshot looks like it could be from that version). About a second, maybe more if there was a lot to show, to render each time you turned, although the smooth pan from screen to screen helped.

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