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The Radical Left-Wing Theory That the Government Has Unlimited Money

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Let's just hope that they don't get the chance to test that theory because we all know it will just destroy the currency.

Amazing how many adults cling on to fantasies all their lives.

 

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4 minutes ago, TwoWolves said:

Let's just hope that they don't get the chance to test that theory because we all know it will just destroy the currency.

Amazing how many adults cling on to fantasies all their lives.

 

Well, yeah.

This is the paper the article links to http://www.levyinstitute.org/pubs/wp244.pdf

Loads missing in my opinion

 

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11 hours ago, Will! said:

MMT is an appealing fantasy, no doubt.

They are saying that countries can run large deficits indefinitely. That's a great vote winner, right? There's little about the role of commercial bank assets, MBS, etc or the role of foreign holders of gov paper.  

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In my life I have gone from hating the right wing elements in our society, which I might add years ago were predominantly just horrible little men in the Tories to now despising the left wing which has been  taken over by so many little self serving fascist groups that are battling for campaigns that have already been won, or close as. Woman's or Black rights used to have many real hero's that used to risk everything for  their just cause, many died. Now you get the likes of Jess Philips munching on a big pie on a live interview trying to get that same risk free adulation as the Suffragettes as she "fights for women".

The left have set themselves up as the good people who will give to  the poor, as they see the poor that is, everything their little heart desires and paid for those nasty people that make and budget money. Don't get me wrong, capitalism is starting to fail in the UK, a welfare claimant who chooses to breed under that system can outdo a hard educated worker on £50,000 plus, the Tories have totally f****d up, but going down Corbyns road is going to take us even further down the wrong path.

It would just be wonderful to have a political party that looks after people who just want to work, raise their own kids with welfare being a last resort and cares about society and doesn't give in to people who just demand everything without giving anything in return

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Cough zimbabwee cough.

Its not printing money thats a problems.

Its ensuring the currency has some value and can be traded.

Its just p1ssing around with the denominator.

 

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11 minutes ago, localhero1983 said:

In my life I have gone from hating the right wing elements in our society, which I might add years ago were predominantly just horrible little men in the Tories to now despising the left wing which has been  taken over by so many little self serving fascist groups that are battling for campaigns that have already been won, or close as. Woman's or Black rights used to have many real hero's that used to risk everything for  their just cause, many died. Now you get the likes of Jess Philips munching on a big pie on a live interview trying to get that same risk free adulation as the Suffragettes as she "fights for women".

The left have set themselves up as the good people who will give to  the poor, as they see the poor that is, everything their little heart desires and paid for those nasty people that make and budget money. Don't get me wrong, capitalism is starting to fail in the UK, a welfare claimant who chooses to breed under that system can outdo a hard educated worker on £50,000 plus, the Tories have totally f****d up, but going down Corbyns road is going to take us even further down the wrong path.

It would just be wonderful to have a political party that looks after people who just want to work, raise their own kids with welfare being a last resort and cares about society and doesn't give in to people who just demand everything without giving anything in return

Thsts called getting old and paying tax

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Just interested to know where this "benefit claimant can outdo guy who earns £50k" meme comes from, particularly in the age of the benefit cap. 

I earn a bit more than £50k, wife earn a around £15k these days (part time owing to kids). We get diddly squat of anything basically. 

Still wouldn't swap our large detached house, garden, parking etc we own plus ability to save and, crucially, prospects for the future for a paid for flat in the social housing over the road from us but willing to be persuaded why I should jack it all in and go on the dole because I'm basically wasting effort. 

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46 minutes ago, localhero1983 said:

In my life I have gone from hating the right wing elements in our society, which I might add years ago were predominantly just horrible little men in the Tories to now despising the left wing which has been  taken over by so many little self serving fascist groups that are battling for campaigns that have already been won, or close as. Woman's or Black rights used to have many real hero's that used to risk everything for  their just cause, many died. Now you get the likes of Jess Philips munching on a big pie on a live interview trying to get that same risk free adulation as the Suffragettes as she "fights for women".

The left have set themselves up as the good people who will give to  the poor, as they see the poor that is, everything their little heart desires and paid for those nasty people that make and budget money. Don't get me wrong, capitalism is starting to fail in the UK, a welfare claimant who chooses to breed under that system can outdo a hard educated worker on £50,000 plus, the Tories have totally f****d up, but going down Corbyns road is going to take us even further down the wrong path.

It would just be wonderful to have a political party that looks after people who just want to work, raise their own kids with welfare being a last resort and cares about society and doesn't give in to people who just demand everything without giving anything in return

I sort of half agree with this but I find I hate the Right wing even more than I did in the 70's.  The Left have been left floundering since that New Tory Tony Blair seized power.  The current batch of Tories are truly disgusting and seem hell-bent on destroying the UK.  However their opposition is so poorly focused that nothing seems to stop them.

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47 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Just interested to know where this "benefit claimant can outdo guy who earns £50k" meme comes from, particularly in the age of the benefit cap. 

I earn a bit more than £50k, wife earn a around £15k these days (part time owing to kids). We get diddly squat of anything basically. 

Still wouldn't swap our large detached house, garden, parking etc we own plus ability to save and, crucially, prospects for the future for a paid for flat in the social housing over the road from us but willing to be persuaded why I should jack it all in and go on the dole because I'm basically wasting effort. 

Its not a meme, its real

https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-truth-about-tax-credits/#.VkTRkD74WVY.twitter

You are working 60h+ for your 65k.

You can get same income with 2 adhd kids and 16h on tesco tills.

See tax credit sad face...

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57 minutes ago, dougless said:

I sort of half agree with this but I find I hate the Right wing even more than I did in the 70's.  The Left have been left floundering since that New Tory Tony Blair seized power.  The current batch of Tories are truly disgusting and seem hell-bent on destroying the UK.  However their opposition is so poorly focused that nothing seems to stop them.

Had John Smith lived things could have been so much different, far better in my opinion. I cannot get rid of these images in my head of Tony Blair stood over the corpse of John Smith with some kind poison in his hand and Cherie Blair and Peter Mandelson in the getaway car

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4 minutes ago, localhero1983 said:

Had John Smith lived things could have been so much different, far better in my opinion. I cannot get rid of these images in my head of Tony Blair stood over the corpse of John Smith with some kind poison in his hand and Cherie Blair and Peter Mandelson in the getaway car

It was a very sad event but your image of the key beneficiaries of John Smith's passing is wonderfully vivid.

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28 minutes ago, localhero1983 said:

Had John Smith lived things could have been so much different, far better in my opinion. I cannot get rid of these images in my head of Tony Blair stood over the corpse of John Smith with some kind poison in his hand and Cherie Blair and Peter Mandelson in the getaway car

Ahh the long awaited UK social democrat movement, killed before it was born by fags n white pudding.

The long awaited victory bus ended up being driven by that wierd one eyed kid who thinks hes clever and a tellyvangilist....

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2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Its not a meme, its real

https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-truth-about-tax-credits/#.VkTRkD74WVY.twitter

You are working 60h+ for your 65k.

You can get same income with 2 adhd kids and 16h on tesco tills.

See tax credit sad face...

Firstly, this is now out of date by a couple of years (a couple of years during which welfare reform has continued apace). 

Secondly, none of the scenarios presented got close to a pre tax income of 65k (actually more like 70k in our case but never mind). 

Third, you needed to have 5 kids in order to get the highest benefit (under 2015 rules, as far as I'm aware tax credits are less generous these days for people with more than 2 kids), equivalent to a pre tax income of 54k. 5 kids crammed into whatever social housing can be found or whatever you can rent for the maximum HB. 

This is not the same as having a higher salary, less kids, potential to increase your income through your own hard work in future and owning your own place in a nicer area (and being secure in it) and you know it. 

The comparator with my scenario would be somebody with one child (we have a 2.5 yr old and another on the way) which entitles you to a lot less (again in 2015; probably even less now). But that doesn't suit your agenda does it?

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3 hours ago, spyguy said:

Its not a meme, its real

https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/the-truth-about-tax-credits/#.VkTRkD74WVY.twitter

You are working 60h+ for your 65k.

You can get same income with 2 adhd kids and 16h on tesco tills.

See tax credit sad face...

They can keep it!  Most of them live sh1tty existences with broken marriages, constant arguing and feral children in sh1tty estates that you wouldn’t live in if you were paid to.  And then when the kids have grown up the income drops to fck all.   Fck them and their sh1tty little scrounging lives.

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Problem with this is that it isnt really radical. Being radical imagines a totally different future, a different system. What will get ideas such as this adopted by western governments of right, left and centre will be fear. Fear of unrest following a crisis when they cannot guarantee the standard of living their citizens have taken for granted. We are seeing a version of it now with tax credits, and state engineered cheap private debt. To reiterate, policies like this will be desperately used to keep the existing system going, which it might do for a while, but none of the systemic issues will be addressed and we will have a another crisis down the line. 

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18 minutes ago, Hullabaloo82 said:

Firstly, this is now out of date by a couple of years (a couple of years during which welfare reform has continued apace). 

Secondly, none of the scenarios presented got close to a pre tax income of 65k (actually more like 70k in our case but never mind). 

Third, you needed to have 5 kids in order to get the highest benefit (under 2015 rules, as far as I'm aware tax credits are less generous these days for people with more than 2 kids), equivalent to a pre tax income of 54k. 5 kids crammed into whatever social housing can be found or whatever you can rent for the maximum HB. 

This is not the same as having a higher salary, less kids, potential to increase your income through your own hard work in future and owning your own place in a nicer area (and being secure in it) and you know it. 

The comparator with my scenario would be somebody with one child (we have a 2.5 yr old and another on the way) which entitles you to a lot less (again in 2015; probably even less now). But that doesn't suit your agenda does it?

UC reform is very very very slow.

The bulk is still present.

TC reform was blocked by a stupid LibDem peer. Talk about democracy....

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10 minutes ago, elephant said:

They can keep it!  Most of them live sh1tty existences with broken marriages, constant arguing and feral children in sh1tty estates that you wouldn’t live in if you were paid to.  And then when the kids have grown up the income drops to fck all.   Fck them and their sh1tty little scrounging lives.

True.

TC involves sacrificying your kids prospect so you can p1ss around for 15 years.

Problem is you end up a 45yo woman with 18+ kids trying to live  on 60w jsa.

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41 minutes ago, spyguy said:

True.

TC involves sacrificying your kids prospect so you can p1ss around for 15 years.

Problem is you end up a 45yo woman with 18+ kids trying to live  on 60w jsa.

This happened to a dear friend. IO mortgage to contend with when kids went off to Uni. It all worked out in the end but involved some serious down sizing and compromise.

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5 hours ago, spyguy said:

Cough zimbabwee cough.

Its not printing money thats a problems.

Its ensuring the currency has some value and can be traded.

Its just p1ssing around with the denominator.

 

Yep. It's like economists take what it is that gives currency value for granted - skilled labour, resources and the products when the two are combined. Reading the MMT you'd think the end game was no one lifting a finger, in reality it would be Zimbabwe. 

Looking at the Euro zone, there's Germany making everything and the rest are pawning whatever they have to by it, with window guidance from the ECB.

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10 minutes ago, dom said:

This happened to a dear friend. IO mortgage to contend with when kids went off to Uni. It all worked out in the end but involved some serious down sizing and compromise.

I seem to have my kids in the middle of a wave of IVFs - theres 2 or 3 sets of twins in my kuds primary class, never mind year.

Ive witnesses one singke mum, 2 kuds, twins suddenly go from Life is good in May, to How the fk do they expect me to get by on 60pw?

Er get a job.

I kniw another woman with twins who i like. Im leaning on her to pull her finger out, no matter what her idiot friends say about not working more than 16h.

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  • 295 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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