simvastatin Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 https://propertymoose.co.uk/ --------------------- *Update: November 2017. It’s been 10 months since I wrote this review, and since then the secondary market has slowed down significantly. My personal expectations of future returns is lower too. I’m still waiting upon any of my ‘buy-to-sell’ properties selling although it seems like several have been in the final stages for some time now. Property Moose is one of the UK’s largest Property Crowdfunding platforms. It allows investors to buy shares of a property and receive ongoing rental payments and capital appreciation. For each property investment an SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) is created. This is a distinct UK limited company which handles all rental income, costs, and has complete ownership of the underlying property. Along with Property Moose, there are 2 other large property crowdfunding platforms: Property Partner and The House Crowd. What makes Property Moose different is its focus on low cost, undervalued Northern/ Midlands properties with high rental yields. They occasionally have more complex leveraged investments and property secured lending, and you manually select which individual projects to invest in. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Has anybody invested in propertymoose and what is your opinion of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honkydonkey Posted December 29, 2018 Share Posted December 29, 2018 (edited) Between 1997 and 2016, UK property prices have grown by 11.65% per year on average.1 Sounds wonderful. I wonder what years 2016 to 2035 will average, Edited December 29, 2018 by honkydonkey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) Property Noose ? Theres a noose loose aboot this hoose Lord Rampingham ... Edited December 30, 2018 by Saving For a Space Ship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horridbloke Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Didn't an idea very similar to this company get utterly panned on Dragon's Den a while back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenpig Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, prozac said: For each property investment an SPV (Special Purpose Vehicle) is created. This is a distinct UK limited company which handles all rental income, costs, and has complete ownership of the underlying property. Probably mentioned before, but worked for an accountant that did a similar scheme in the 80s boom. It didn't make any money (for the investors). Although there are a lot more subsidies for landlords these days - housing benefit and student loans etc - so maybe getting more viable. Edited December 30, 2018 by Steppenpig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24gray24 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 It doesn't take a genius to ask: who pays the mortgage loss when the house prices drop? You can bet your bottom dollar there's a personal guarantee built into the small print. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 Despite having a solicitor and 'asset manager' as directors, the pitch - buy a share in a ptoperty, is illegsl as that would be a security. The only legal way this would work is collecting various people to own part of a company that holds an individual house. That is nothing more than an expensive fee generator for dfi fincial. And a total nightmare of logustics for anyone 'investing'. Any income generated by go in admin fees. Only way to get money would be for everyone to agee to sell up, generating even more fees. Barge pole does not do it justice. Collective ownsehip of assets is a murky area that tends to slip into illegal. Want exposure to uk housing? Buy housebuilding shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, Steppenpig said: Probably mentioned before, but worked for an accountant that did a similar scheme in the 80s boom. It didn't make any money (for the investors). Although there are a lot more subsidies for landlords these days - housing benefit and student loans etc - so maybe getting more viable. Did they end up in jail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hullabaloo82 Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, spyguy said: The only legal way this would work is collecting various people to own part of a company that holds an individual house. ...... Aaaand that's exactly how it does work. See the section on Special Purpose Vehicles in the original post. Is it a burden knowing absolutely everything about everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Despite having a solicitor and 'asset manager' as directors, the pitch - buy a share in a ptoperty, is illegsl as that would be a security. The only legal way this would work is collecting various people to own part of a company that holds an individual house. That is nothing more than an expensive fee generator for dfi fincial. And a total nightmare of logustics for anyone 'investing'. Any income generated by go in admin fees. Only way to get money would be for everyone to agee to sell up, generating even more fees. Barge pole does not do it justice. Collective ownsehip of assets is a murky area that tends to slip into illegal. Want exposure to uk housing? Buy housebuilding shares. reminds me of my Gurus thread where it looks like one expensive flat is owned by a company of over 30 investors, Sub 6% return on a flat split 30+ ways does not get me that excited tbh. Flipping was the only real way to go with such investments and the problem is that as prices rise you have to bet more and more to make more/same. Its apparent a number of "investment" experts who state they own x properties but in reality the properties are owned by xx others. You can only imagine how many people are possibly fronts for obfuscated dodgy money. That's what I would do if i was a russian oligarch/middle eastern despot find a young lord/lady nice but dim and make him/her the front of the operation so it has a veneer of old money. Once we hit crash levels such companies unwinding will create a debt vortex and that is why they will get another bailout most likely. Was walking through SOHO a few days ago shitty studios over 750K £. They would still be expensive at 500K given the m2 and if they went to 300k that would still be over £5000 a m2. Lunacy Edited December 30, 2018 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steppenpig Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, spyguy said: Did they end up in jail? I don't think so. It was created by a firm of solicitors, so presumably they were responsible for any misselling. I keep hoping the name comes back to me, as Id like to google it. The accounting was utterly shambolic. 200 identical looking companies with roughly identical looking transactions. Hopeless. edit. Just saw your other post. yes exactly - sounds like you've been there too. all the money went on admin and fees, plus we ran into the late 80s crash. They were time limited, and we were obliged to sell after 5 years. Edited December 30, 2018 by Steppenpig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted December 30, 2018 Author Share Posted December 30, 2018 50 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said: find a young lord/lady nice but dim and make him/her the front of the operation so it has a veneer of old money. You mean like James Cadbury Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 4 hours ago, prozac said: You mean like James Cadbury I didn't even know he was till you posted that to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving For a Space Ship Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 https://propertymoose.co.uk Property Moose is a trading name of DFI Financial Services Ltd Summary https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/08522515-dfi-financial-services-ltd DFI FINANCIAL SERVICES LTD https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08522515 https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08522515/filing-history Previous company names CROWD FIN LIMITED 09 May 2013 - 22 Aug 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 5 hours ago, Fromage Frais said: Once we hit crash levels such companies unwinding will create a debt vortex and that is why they will get another bailout most likely. Really? What, by Taxpayers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Frais Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Arpeggio said: Really? What, by Taxpayers? Bingo. They can always roll back some of the tax changes they have made. Fingers crossed they do not These debt black holes are so scary the powers that be dont have the courage to let the chips fall. Edited December 30, 2018 by Fromage Frais Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpeggio Posted December 30, 2018 Share Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Fromage Frais said: Bingo. They can always roll back some of the tax changes they have made. Fingers crossed they do not These debt black holes are so scary the powers that be dont have the courage to let the chips fall. What a bunch of mollycoddled brats. I wouldn't expect a bail out if I lost out on unsecured investments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 How long before some basket case turns up on Radio 4 complaining they were 'mis sold' and want a bail out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 12 hours ago, msi said: How long before some basket case turns up on Radio 4 complaining they were 'mis sold' and want a bail out? Already has been, for years. Some old fart on MoneyBox, multplle times, complaining about their property get rich scheme blowing up. There was a very annoying R4 Analysis on EqRel over Xmas. Wasted 30 minutes po1sing around. I got the feeling the journo did not grasp the risk. I could have explained the risk in in n 10m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msi Posted January 1, 2019 Share Posted January 1, 2019 14 hours ago, spyguy said: Already has been, for years. Some old fart on MoneyBox, multplle times, complaining about their property get rich scheme blowing up. There was a very annoying R4 Analysis on EqRel over Xmas. Wasted 30 minutes po1sing around. I got the feeling the journo did not grasp the risk. I could have explained the risk in in n 10m. The moneybox scam warning articles are funny - someone professes to be financially aware but is conned by a scheme that even a simpleton as me found wanting. The basis of a capitalist system is to apply capital on a risk adjusted basis - hence the notion of interest (opposed to usury). Why do these guys think they are due to be compensated for the risk is beyond me. Probably ask for their money back after each lottery draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 9 hours ago, msi said: The moneybox scam warning articles are funny - someone professes to be financially aware but is conned by a scheme that even a simpleton as me found wanting. The basis of a capitalist system is to apply capital on a risk adjusted basis - hence the notion of interest (opposed to usury). Why do these guys think they are due to be compensated for the risk is beyond me. Probably ask for their money back after each lottery draw. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bd8h78 The porg is annoying as it spends 30m suggesting what could go wrong but never coming out with figures. The ER market is interesting. Racially head you win tails you lose. The new addition is RIO mortgages - to bail the OAP IO mortgage holders out. Theres nothing wrong with RIO/EQ - pays your money takes your chance. And the ER/RIO company do drive a pretty low price - Ive never heard of anyone getting near 50% market price for their house. I find moneybox very hard to listen too. |Too many little old ladies doing stupid get rich schemes whihc involve ripping off younger people, then expecting a bail out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will! Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, spyguy said: The ER market is interesting. Racially head you win tails you lose. Bit basic mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyguy Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Will! said: Bit basic mate. Yeah ... mangled that .. badly. Just google RIO facts. My old favourite Leeds BS popped up top: http://www.leedsbuildingsociety.co.uk/intermediaries/products/retirement-mortgages/rio-explainer/ They just cant keep away from specialist lending. Funny things, RIO. Max 55% LTV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M21er Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 15 hours ago, Will! said: Bit basic mate. I see what you did there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 On 29/12/2018 at 19:13, honkydonkey said: Between 1997 and 2016, UK property prices have grown by 11.65% per year on average.1 Sounds wonderful. I wonder what years 2016 to 2035 will average, On that basis assuming average price today of £220,000 by 2035 it will be approaching £2,000,000 !! High fives and whoop whoop!! we are all rich !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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