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More than 30,000 UK retailers in 'significant' financial distress


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3 hours ago, reddog said:

Funnily enough, I was thinking of seeing if I could go through all of 2019 without buying any new clothes....what an evil anti society person I am!!

Tbf I don't think I've bought any clothing in 2018 at all, I'm stretching the depreciation like a crooked accountant. 

I plan on buying some clothes in the Debtenhams liquidation sale, or unwanted xmas gifts on eBay for 10p/£

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On 24/12/2018 at 16:11, honkydonkey said:

Amazon getting tax breaks is much akin to the BTL crowd getting the same advantage. 

Result: decimation. 

I agree that Amazon's abuse of the corporate tax system is a massive distortion but the pressure of low margins is starting to tell on Amazon now given that it can't rely on perpetual growth anymore. 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/22/amazon-is-taking-its-bottom-line-more-seriously.aspx

Recently, though, Amazon has begun to focus more on its bottom line, weeding out a host of unprofitable items by changing how and when they are eligible for free shipping, working with merchants to develop more shipping-friendly packaging, and eliminating some items entirely. This could lead to a significant boost in the company's profit margins and provide greater returns for shareholders.

Remember the only bit of Amazon that makes money is the web servers. 

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49 minutes ago, The Preacherman said:

I agree that Amazon's abuse of the corporate tax system is a massive distortion but the pressure of low margins is starting to tell on Amazon now given that it can't rely on perpetual growth anymore. 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/22/amazon-is-taking-its-bottom-line-more-seriously.aspx

Recently, though, Amazon has begun to focus more on its bottom line, weeding out a host of unprofitable items by changing how and when they are eligible for free shipping, working with merchants to develop more shipping-friendly packaging, and eliminating some items entirely. This could lead to a significant boost in the company's profit margins and provide greater returns for shareholders.

Remember the only bit of Amazon that makes money is the web servers. 

Amazon is not abusing copt tax.

Its abusing its share holders funds.

Amazon pays little corp tax as it makes fall profit.

Once its share holders start insisting they see some cash return on the equity, then Amazon will start having to be run for profit.

Where Amzon is complciit is with Chinese sellers dodging VAT.

 

 

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On 25/12/2018 at 10:14, spyguy said:

And noone to left to lift their rotting corpse off the floor.

Nothing ruins a village than having it full of asset rich Nimbies. Who are then surprised noone ants to buy their house - no school or pub or shop, or is willing to drive 10m to look after them at NMW.

Good points......certain jobs will become more valued, more expensive than others.....digital age v social interaction.?

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16 hours ago, jimmy2x3 said:

the posh stores like m&s are busy, so are the discounters like homebargains. 

 

everyone else is stuffed, there are just rich and poor people now

Rich people already have enough stuff, they are finding it not so pleasurable to eat anymore, not good for future wellbeing......stuff is requires both extra storage and insurance.?

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The price of everything is absurd when looked at vs wages. As already stated the whole economy can only function via increasing debt, with interest rates on the floor the only option to keep the show on the road is debt forgiveness. I wonder if they have the balls to do it.

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4 hours ago, The Preacherman said:

I agree that Amazon's abuse of the corporate tax system is a massive distortion but the pressure of low margins is starting to tell on Amazon now given that it can't rely on perpetual growth anymore. 

https://www.fool.com/investing/2018/12/22/amazon-is-taking-its-bottom-line-more-seriously.aspx

Recently, though, Amazon has begun to focus more on its bottom line, weeding out a host of unprofitable items by changing how and when they are eligible for free shipping, working with merchants to develop more shipping-friendly packaging, and eliminating some items entirely. This could lead to a significant boost in the company's profit margins and provide greater returns for shareholders.

Remember the only bit of Amazon that makes money is the web servers. 

It has been a very efficient data gathering exercise and the selling of stuff is just a loss leader.

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Retail is on its last legs, and not just local retail in expensive downtown stores. I used to buy stuff from Amazon at least a couple of times a month. This year I think I've done it twice in twelve.

Of the things I used to buy:

DVDs? Most new movies aren't worth watching, and those that are will be on Netflix sooner or later, if my girlfriend doesn't get them from the library first. Older movies, I'll wait until they're $4.99 on iTunes, rather than $20 on DVD.

Books? I'll buy the ebook, and I'm at least as likely to do that on iTunes as Amazon.

CDs? Duh, iTunes.

Computer games? When's the next Steam sale?

Anything else? Well, first I have to fight my way through the dozens of 'sponsored products' to get to the things I want, and then half the time it's a 'third party seller', which means extra shipping fees and more likelihood of being scammed.

Even for physical things, retail is no longer as necessary as it becomes easier and easier to make things at home. I was in need of some dummy 8mm Mauser rounds a few days ago, and would normally have gone to eBay, paid $25 and waited a few days for them to come in the mail. Instead, I downloaded a file from Thingiverse, warmed up the 3D printer and had them a few hours later.

So, at a minimum, the bottom of the cheap Chinese tat market is going to fall out as people realize how easily they can make that stuff themselves.

And a bunch of things I've bought in the last year have been 3D printed or CNC-machined by individuals and sold online, rather than going through retailers. I've spent 10x as much on those things as I spent at Amazon this year.

Edited by MarkG
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I've currently got...

 

8 year old laptop

10 year old mobile

10+ year old tv and stereo

12 year old car

22 year old mountain bike (my main leisure interest)

Haven't bought any new clothes (except socks and underwear) for at least 5 years.

Haven't bought any music (in any format) since about 1995 (As much because music has been shite since then)

Any books I buy secondhand for a fraction of their new rrp.

 

I could comfortably afford the latest of all of the above but I just don't see the point when everything I've currently got serves my requirements just fine.

For years I've told friends and family to not bother getting me xmas or bday presents because there is just nothing that I want or need

I've got to the point where any money over and above what I need for daily living and paying bills is almost worthless and irrelevant to me....  in my job we get xmas tips and I've done quite well this year (by my usual standards) got about £400, but there is literally nothing at all that I want to treat myself to with any of it, in fact I've just left it sat in the glovebox to use for petrol money for the next few months.

 

It's a hugely satisfying feeling knowing that I'm rebelling against the goverbankment and not being the credit addicted mindless consumer of tat that they so want me to be... and I'm able to rebel without even trying, it just comes naturally to me!

I imagine our financial overlords view me as a bigger threat to the uk economy than brexit and terrorism combined.

 

Edited by nome
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11 minutes ago, nome said:

I've currently got...

 

8 year old laptop

10 year old mobile

10+ year old tv and stereo

12 year old car

22 year old mountain bike (my main leisure interest)

Haven't bought any new clothes (except socks and underwear) for at least 5 years.

Haven't bought any music (in any format) since about 1995 (As much because music has been shite since then)

Any books I buy secondhand for a fraction of their new rrp.

 

I could comfortably afford the latest of all of the above but I just don't see the point when everything I've currently got serves my requirements just fine.

For years I've told friends and family to not bother getting me xmas or bday presents because there is just nothing that I want or need

I've got to the point where any money over and above what I need for daily living and paying bills is almost worthless and irrelevant to me....  in my job we get xmas tips and I've done quite well this year (by my usual standards) got about £400, but there is literally nothing at all that I want to treat myself to with any of it, in fact I've just left it sat in the glovebox to use for petrol money for the next few months.

 

It's a hugely satisfying feeling knowing that I'm rebelling against the goverbankment and not being the credit addicted mindless consumer of tat that they so want me to be... and I'm able to rebel without even trying, it just comes naturally to me!

I imagine our financial overlords view me as a bigger threat to the uk economy than brexit and terrorism combined.

 

Impressive, that is something to think about 

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On 30/12/2018 at 08:09, nome said:

I've currently got...

 

8 year old laptop

10 year old mobile

10+ year old tv and stereo

12 year old car

22 year old mountain bike (my main leisure interest)

Haven't bought any new clothes (except socks and underwear) for at least 5 years.

Haven't bought any music (in any format) since about 1995 (As much because music has been shite since then)

Any books I buy secondhand for a fraction of their new rrp.

 

I could comfortably afford the latest of all of the above but I just don't see the point when everything I've currently got serves my requirements just fine.

For years I've told friends and family to not bother getting me xmas or bday presents because there is just nothing that I want or need

I've got to the point where any money over and above what I need for daily living and paying bills is almost worthless and irrelevant to me....  in my job we get xmas tips and I've done quite well this year (by my usual standards) got about £400, but there is literally nothing at all that I want to treat myself to with any of it, in fact I've just left it sat in the glovebox to use for petrol money for the next few months.

 

It's a hugely satisfying feeling knowing that I'm rebelling against the goverbankment and not being the credit addicted mindless consumer of tat that they so want me to be... and I'm able to rebel without even trying, it just comes naturally to me!

I imagine our financial overlords view me as a bigger threat to the uk economy than brexit and terrorism combined.

 

kinda the same. i find myself having high essential costs ie food, fuel, vehicle running costs stuff i really cant make less without some serious drawbacks ( like sitting in the house with a blanket around me). but my discretionary spend is non existant. i stopped smoking 5 years ago, and the last year ive but for a pint here or there stopped drinking, i have no debt and no desire for fast cars or holidays or season tickets. i find myself happy to actually do stuff, strange im finding i enjoy work more now at 48 and happy to work more hours. I have no dependents to pay for either so dont even need the money even though i have a very nice income. i saved 20k last year. actually saved after paying all bills and taxes and a new car.well a 6 year old one i paid cash for. So ive reached that place where im no quite sure what im busy working hard for but enjoying doing it anyway. hell ive even decided i dont want to buy a house, got lucky couple years ago after many years renting privatly and got a nice wee council house with a nice garden for 300 quid a month. As for netflix etc i turn my tv on maybe twice a year usually to watch an election of some sort, i mainly sit listening instead to lbc. even my hobbies are basically free, sea fishing, gardening, reading, walking. heck i even play 10 year old computer games happily that cost nothing. its interesting when you never watch tv how intrestingly out of the loop you get, its like you miss all the latest hype and fads which im happy about as i also miss all the adverts. 

 

im consumerisims worse nightmare

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2 hours ago, jimmy2x3 said:

kinda the same. i find myself having high essential costs ie food, fuel, vehicle running costs stuff i really cant make less without some serious drawbacks ( like sitting in the house with a blanket around me). but my discretionary spend is non existant. i stopped smoking 5 years ago, and the last year ive but for a pint here or there stopped drinking, i have no debt and no desire for fast cars or holidays or season tickets. i find myself happy to actually do stuff, strange im finding i enjoy work more now at 48 and happy to work more hours. I have no dependents to pay for either so dont even need the money even though i have a very nice income. i saved 20k last year. actually saved after paying all bills and taxes and a new car.well a 6 year old one i paid cash for. So ive reached that place where im no quite sure what im busy working hard for but enjoying doing it anyway. hell ive even decided i dont want to buy a house, got lucky couple years ago after many years renting privatly and got a nice wee council house with a nice garden for 300 quid a month. As for netflix etc i turn my tv on maybe twice a year usually to watch an election of some sort, i mainly sit listening instead to lbc. even my hobbies are basically free, sea fishing, gardening, reading, walking. heck i even play 10 year old computer games happily that cost nothing. its interesting when you never watch tv how intrestingly out of the loop you get, its like you miss all the latest hype and fads which im happy about as i also miss all the adverts. 

 

im consumerisims worse nightmare

Very similar to me.Im mortgage free and my total monthly spending on all household bills,food and car is £480.I tend to spend £80 a month on top of that on anything i want, though that tends to mount up as i tend to get anything i want from Gumtree or Facebook marketplace for almost free.I went back to work in October (i had semi retired at 40) simply as i was offered a really good salary for the area £38k and i can save 100% of it apart from the NI,SIPP down to tax allowance level, (i have passive income higher than my monthly spend from ISA/investments).

Iv spent £8k on cars/vans in 20 years,i have a car and van (buying,fixing,keeping on road).Though i might buy a one again soon.Mine is 13 years old now and i like to buy a diesel about 4 years old for £5k (i can repair most jobs myself on diesels).£0 on holidays.I hate them.My hobbies make me money or are free when you have the kit (metal detecting,fishing,nature,walking,astronomy etc).

My food is almost always 75% off yellow sticker,foraged,from allotments etc.High quality and about £30 a week for two all in.

I could pretty much buy anything i wanted,but have no desire to.Frugal makes me happy and i find it keeps me sharp in mind and body.

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@durhamborn just wanted to let you know my 'portfolio' of stocks based on your brilliant thread has just started to consistently creep upwards. So thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and all the best for 2019

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 City braced for bad news over Christmas retail figures Next’s figures will be released on Thursday and could be down 13% on last year

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/01/city-braced-for-bad-news-over-christmas-retail-figures

Topshop's decline marks the end of the high street's golden age

https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2019/jan/01/topshops-decline-marks-the-end-of-the-high-streets-golden-age

Edited by Saving For a Space Ship
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14 minutes ago, chronyx said:

@durhamborn just wanted to let you know my 'portfolio' of stocks based on your brilliant thread has just started to consistently creep upwards. So thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and all the best for 2019

Thankyou thats good news,and yes im very happy with how things are working out,more to come yet.^_^

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While I'm clearly not as hardcore as some I'm loving the consumption-apathetic sentiment in this thread.

Like many of you the items I own that are religiously replaced by conformist-conspicuously-consumptive-cash-cow-consumers are all ancient (phone 13yrs, car 17yrs, PC 8yrs, stereo 20yrs, no TV, clothes that are replaced when they're worn out).

Of course we all have our limitations and indulgences - I replaced my expired 14yr old bike expired last year (after careful research with a second hand but unused example at 55% the cost of a new one). I buy toys to serve other interests but the vast majority are used and could be sold for as much as / more than I paid in most cases. 

I like nice things but very rarely buy new / anything that's going to depreciate massively, buy on spec (rather than age or shallow perceived value) and look after my gear.

Speaking of used purchases - has anyone else noticed the growing chasm between the cost of new and used stuff (particularly non-essential non-collectable such as leisure and hobby items)? In my experience back when the economy was "booming" maybe 15yrs ago, used stuff cost a lot more relative to new. For example you'd pay maybe 80% the cost of a new camera lens if buying used. As things have degenerated new items have grown in price but that of used alternatives seems to have stalled - now you might pay closer to 50% of new for a used lens.

I.m in a very weird place currently - plenty of savings so feel somewhat cash-rich on a daily basis, yet said savings fall woefully short of the sort of deposit required to make life really easy if eventually purchasing a house.

I find it shocking how easily people are coerced and how shallow and short term their motives for spending are. While there's very little positive about the prevailing financial situation I'm constantly reminded of how "fortunate" I am compared to such people given my lack of debt, reasonable savings and relatively frugal consumption.

From some of the posts on here I'm sure I'm not alone in the wonderful feeling of empowerment that comes from appreciating the simple pleasures in life. Not being eaten away by anxiety about how you're going to fund that next showy big ticket purchase, or how many extra hours you're going to have to work this week to service your mounting debt.

While I'm sure this mindset is still in a minority in wider society I think things are changing - while boomers who've lived through times of too little are still apparently reveling in the abundance of over-supply, I think their offspring are now all too familiar with the evils of excessive consumption, waste and clutter - reacting accordingly by cutting back their spending and making fewer, more considered purchases. I've read suggestions of reaching / passing "peak stuff" or "peak consumption" with increasing frequency over past years.

I've only recently come to recognise the anxiety attached to getting lots of presents as a kid (first world problems...) as storage space in the family house became ever-more scarce. Now I find the slow and convoluted process of de-cluttering my environment an immensely cathartic experience. Likewise I had my best Christmas this year in terms of gifts - one small present that required no thought about how I was going to store it. 

Here's to a new year of opportunities in reward for our diligence ;)
 

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33 minutes ago, ftb_fml said:

Speaking of used purchases - has anyone else noticed the growing chasm between the cost of new and used stuff (particularly non-essential non-collectable such as leisure and hobby items)? In my experience back when the economy was "booming" maybe 15yrs ago, used stuff cost a lot more relative to new. For example you'd pay maybe 80% the cost of a new camera lens if buying used. As things have degenerated new items have grown in price but that of used alternatives seems to have stalled - now you might pay closer to 50% of new for a used lens.

As with new stuff, depends whether it's bought with credit or not IMO.

For instance, the prices of used cars/bikes appear to be high and not at all reflecting the ample supply and this is because they're pumped out at 3 years old on another PCP or bought using 'affordable' loans - hence for me verifying the theory that the price of anything big-ticket expands gradually to match the amount of credit available to buy it. Same effect whether it's houses or cars.

Of course an economy built this way can't sustain itself - particularly when survey(s) suggest that over 40% of UK adults have no savings (money swallowed up in PCP and mortgage payments...) and a day of reckoning will arrive wherein the difference between debt and real wealth/prosperity (the Tories'  current favourite buzzword) will be revealed and the effects of chronically living beyond one's means on 'someone else's money' (copyright M Thatcher) will make themselves known. Here's hoping.

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On 24/12/2018 at 13:03, macca13 said:

All my money goes to the landlord.. What do we expect.. What money do people have left to spend except for credit cards, once their rent and bills have been paid.. 

This cost of living crisis is across the western world and property prices are the biggest problem! 

Half property/rent prices and only then will the problem be anywhere near fixed.. 

Then stop immigration, we are sliding further towards a third world country..

Totally, totally agree with you Macca.   It is the Greatest Scandal in All History.

It is also The Elephant Mammoth in the Room.

It has RUINED our country.

 

BTW -- HALVE --- not half.

Half HALVE property/rent prices and only then will the problem be anywhere near fixed.. 

 

 

Edited by eric pebble
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On 24/12/2018 at 15:58, ftb_fml said:

Quelle surprise.

Just another of the increasingly dire warnings that we're reaching the end of the unsustainable debt-fuelled consumption binge pushed by the establishment for decades to keep us passified:rolleyes: ...///... truly go over the edge of the abyss.
 

pacified....

However -- I TOTALLY agree with what you say.

Edited by eric pebble
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8 minutes ago, eric pebble said:

Totally, totally agree with you Macca.   It is the Greatest Scandal in All History.

It is also The Elephant Mammoth in the Room.

It has RUINED our country.

 

 

Slumification of housing is their aim! It’s been shown the greatest profit comes from increasing density.. smaller living areas maximises return on land value.. 

The Indian slum model.. That’s why they want people who are used to poor living stadards to drag us down to their level.. 

It’s also why they have removed basic needs such as rent from inflation reports.. 

A3BB5CE6-1FAB-4777-9E7A-1F9AD0417F9D.jpeg

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