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More Households in Mortgage Arrears now than in 2008

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10 minutes ago, Si1 said:

"Watchdog finds those in arrears are not getting enough support  from the banks"

 

Eh?

Exactly.

Doesn't the fact that repo's are at record lows whilst arrears are higher than 2008 suggest the very opposite of that claim is true.

 

 

Support homeowners at all costs.

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2 hours ago, nome said:

I'm surprised this seems to have slipped under the radar, unless I've missed it elsewhere.

Not that mortgage arrears matter much these days with the 'protect homeowners at all costs' mentality that now exists.

 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/mortgageshome/article-6466873/More-households-mortgage-arrears-2008-FCA-says.html

 

 

I am surprised as well, today's mentality is to mollycoddle a homeowner in arrears as much as you would someone in mourning for a recently departed loved one. In 2008 and after rates were reduced to close to zero and millions of homeowners who would have been hammered the government and banks rather than think this is an opportunity to straight again decided to keep inflating what was a bubble.

I don't think there is anything else to bail these people out with even if the government wanted to, if they use taxpayers money again I will simply stop paying taxes.

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Is leniency on arrears the new way of making people feel wealthy? 

beyond "debt is wealth" - now we are at "arrears is wealth". 

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This is shocking when you consider how low interest rates are.  When I hear about how little people are paying for their mortgages, it is really quite shocking.  I despair at the low interest rate, bubble blowing bunch of clowns who are ruining our economy.

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27 minutes ago, dougless said:

This is shocking when you consider how low interest rates are.  When I hear about how little people are paying for their mortgages, it is really quite shocking.  I despair at the low interest rate, bubble blowing bunch of clowns who are ruining our economy.

Exactly, quite a good effort to go into arrears in the current environment.

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This is only superficially surprising. 2008 was essentially before the crisis so to compare pre-GFC repossessions to today is not really a meaningful exercise.

To quote from the article:

Quote

More than 140 families lost their homes every week last year as a result of repossessions, figures show.

But in 1991 there were 10 times that number repossessed each week, and in 2009 some 940 people a week lost their homes. 

The useful figure here is 2009, when 940 lost their homes each week vs the 140 today, which is nearly 7 times higher.

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The extraordinary Central Bank measures were supposed to do this whilst the banks rebuild their balance sheets. But it's all rather like a drug now.

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Arrears were low in 2008.

Arrears are pretty low in 2018.

The fact that arrears are higher in 2018 than in 2008 does not mean that arrears are high today.

Arrears were much much higher during the financial crisis.

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1 minute ago, Ah-so said:

Arrears were low in 2008.

Arrears are pretty low in 2018.

The fact that arrears are higher in 2018 than in 2008 does not mean that arrears are high today.

Arrears were much much higher during the financial crisis.

Nonetheless, we are being fed day in day out with: "amazing economy! Record low unemployment! All is fine! rates close to 0"

So in this circumstance, is it right to expect a lower mortgage stress?

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Just now, Freki said:

Nonetheless, we are being fed day in day out with: "amazing economy! Record low unemployment! All is fine! rates close to 0"

So in this circumstance, is it right to expect a lower mortgage stress?

I would not necessarilly agree with your first sentence - I do not think that we are being fed an "amazing economy" message "day-in day-out".

UK economy in weakest growth since 2012

The GDP figures confirm Britain’s economic weakness

So with regards your question, apart from questioning the validity of it, I would answer that I do not know.

If I climb a mountain (of mortgage arrears) from the foot of it to the summit and then descend the other side, I would not know follow my descent whether I am at a higher level or a lower level than before my ascent on the other side of the mountain. If someone told me that I was at a slightly higher altitude my reaction would be "huh", rather than "what??".

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6 hours ago, Si1 said:

"Watchdog finds those in arrears are not getting enough support  from the banks"

What sort of 'support' did they have in mind? The home owners signed the mortgage agreement and should expect to be bound by it.

If they can't pay, they should be in default. 

Edited by Errol

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17 minutes ago, Errol said:

What sort of 'support' did they have in mind? The home owners signed the mortgage agreement and should expect to be bound by it.

If they can't pay, they should be in default. 

"Help to default" - a new govt scheme where your mortgage arrears are rolled into a new help to buy loan which also helps you buy a new 300k Persimmon house with only 5% down.

 

Am I close?

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7 hours ago, nome said:

Exactly.

Doesn't the fact that repo's are at record lows whilst arrears are higher than 2008 suggest the very opposite of that claim is true.

 

 

Support homeowners at all costs.

Well yes...little such support for renters...I wonder how many are facing no blame evictions in time for Christmas?

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3 hours ago, BorrowToLeech said:

The issue is the disparity between the treatment of owners and the treatment of tenants. 

Tenants can and are evicted at any time for any reason.  Essentially, we now have two classes of citizen. 

Well yes owners of land and property are showered with privileges...main one being the exemption from CGT on their main asset as opposed to my assets being subject to the tax.  Many other privileges have been discussed on this forum.

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6 hours ago, Ah-so said:

Arrears were low in 2008.

Arrears are pretty low in 2018.

The fact that arrears are higher in 2018 than in 2008 does not mean that arrears are high today.

Arrears were much much higher during the financial crisis.

Are you implying that the Financial Crisis has ended?

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18 hours ago, dougless said:

Are you implying that the Financial Crisis has ended?

Actually no, but I think the peak has passed. 

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On 07/12/2018 at 10:44, Ah-so said:

This is only superficially surprising. 2008 was essentially before the crisis so to compare pre-GFC repossessions to today is not really a meaningful exercise.

To quote from the article:

The useful figure here is 2009, when 940 lost their homes each week vs the 140 today, which is nearly 7 times higher.

For tenants the figure is around 100 families per day.

For context. 

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23 hours ago, Wayward said:

Well yes owners of land and property are showered with privileges...main one being the exemption from CGT on their main asset as opposed to my assets being subject to the tax.  Many other privileges have been discussed on this forum.

Good point. I hadn’t considered the CGT exemption on main residence in comparison yet with myself, only spiv activities. It may have once not been a discriminatory tax but it certainly is now when homeowners fewer and fewer. As a potential buyer, some money going to CGT? Wouldn’t mind, and it would de-incentivise kite flying.

 

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1 hour ago, Ah-so said:

Actually no, but I think the peak has passed. 

I admire your optimism, as I see it we are fast sliding into an even bigger crisis because nothing of substance was done to address the issues that resulted in the 2007/8 downward blip.

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10 minutes ago, dougless said:

I admire your optimism, as I see it we are fast sliding into an even bigger crisis because nothing of substance was done to address the issues that resulted in the 2007/8 downward blip.

I don't discount what you say - QE allowed us to ignore the symptoms but has not provided a cure.

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I am just thinking.

A crash cannot happen without repo shooting up as well. 

Therefore, a crash can never happen in the UK, as long as banks allow people to switch to IO and do not repo until the occupants die. 

A crash will only happen when the boomers start dying in great numbers in maybe 20 years.

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