Jump to content
House Price Crash Forum
Saving For a Space Ship

Poorest dying nearly ten years younger than the rich in “deeply worrying” trend

Recommended Posts

Isn't this largely to do with lifestyle habits? "Poorer" people are statistically likely to have more drug/alcohol/smoking habits. And people with these problems are incidentally more likely to be poor due to these afflictions...

With the NHS I find it really difficult to believe that this is due to poor diagnosis rates, unless "poorer" people are not going to the doctor as readily when they have symptoms. I was brought up in a middle-class family and have only ever been treated under the NHS. I have many health problems, and they've always been fab with testing/diagnosing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, oatbake said:

Isn't this largely to do with lifestyle habits? "Poorer" people are statistically likely to have more drug/alcohol/smoking habits. And people with these problems are incidentally more likely to be poor due to these afflictions...

With the NHS I find it really difficult to believe that this is due to poor diagnosis rates, unless "poorer" people are not going to the doctor as readily when they have symptoms. I was brought up in a middle-class family and have only ever been treated under the NHS. I have many health problems, and they've always been fab with testing/diagnosing.

In short, Yes.

 

The NHS , roghtly, is setup to deal with infectious diseases and medical confitions.

As someone who lives in transit distance of middlesborugh, the difference is shocking - takeways everywhere, shops selling black fags, people smoking and drinking their guts out.

Pure lifestyle.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, spyguy said:

In short, Yes.

 

The NHS , roghtly, is setup to deal with infectious diseases and medical confitions.

As someone who lives in transit distance of middlesborugh, the difference is shocking - takeways everywhere, shops selling black fags, people smoking and drinking their guts out.

Pure lifestyle.

 

But muh in eh QUAAAALITEEEEEEA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I had smoked since 16, I would be a lot poorer and less healthy.  However it would not be my poverty that would have caused my ill health.  I don't think all of the difference is due to this, however it must have something to do with it.

 

I would love to see a model for how much smoking changes 2 identical people's health and wealth so we can discount the smoking effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, oatbake said:

Isn't this almost entirely largely to do with lifestyle habits?

Fixed for you.  Discounting royalty with their ever vigilant personal physicians, the wealthy are healthy mostly because they are not lazy tw*ts who smoke, use drive through takeaways and try to park as near as possible to the next seating opportunity.
Deeply worrying?  Not really, as long as we don't spend much keeping these cretins alive in their dotage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

Fixed for you.  Discounting royalty with their ever vigilant personal physicians, the wealthy are healthy mostly because they are not lazy tw*ts who smoke, use drive through takeaways and try to park as near as possible to the next seating opportunity.
Deeply worrying?  Not really, as long as we don't spend much keeping these cretins alive in their dotage.

It is hard to disagree with that !!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, iamnumerate said:

If I had smoked since 16, I would be a lot poorer and less healthy.  However it would not be my poverty that would have caused my ill health.  I don't think all of the difference is due to this, however it must have something to do with it.

 

I would love to see a model for how much smoking changes 2 identical people's health and wealth so we can discount the smoking effect.

Its not just fags.

I know people who've basically smoked 30+ fags a day since 14, pig out on takeaways, hammer the booze - and I mean hammer it, then eat what a lard/animal fat based diets.

By the time you get to your late 30s the difference is shockng.

Me n Mrspy were out, meeting up for a drink old mate in boro. We were sat in Swatters Carr (spoons) and one of his work mate came over. She was about 5foot by 5 foot and she started going on about her baby weight. Her comment to mrs spy was 'Oh, you wait til you hit 30 and and have a kid then you'll pile the wight on etc etc . Mrs spy is 45 and weve two kids.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, hotblack42 said:

Fixed for you.  Discounting royalty with their ever vigilant personal physicians, the wealthy are healthy mostly because they are not lazy tw*ts who smoke, use drive through takeaways and try to park as near as possible to the next seating opportunity.
Deeply worrying?  Not really, as long as we don't spend much keeping these cretins alive in their dotage.

Personal physicians dont cancel out the inbreeding.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Its not just fags.

I know people who've basically smoked 30+ fags a day since 14, pig out on takeaways, hammer the booze - and I mean hammer it, then eat what a lard/animal fat based diets.

By the time you get to your late 30s the difference is shockng.

Me n Mrspy were out, meeting up for a drink old mate in boro. We were sat in Swatters Carr (spoons) and one of his work mate came over. She was about 5foot by 5 foot and she started going on about her baby weight. Her comment to mrs spy was 'Oh, you wait til you hit 30 and and have a kid then you'll pile the wight on etc etc . Mrs spy is 45 and weve two kids.

 

I just used cigarettes for simplification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, spyguy said:

Her comment to mrs spy was 'Oh, you wait til you hit 30 and and have a kid then you'll pile the wight on etc etc . Mrs spy is 45 and weve two kids.

 

64212366.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Outside of disease caused by damp / noise / cold and therefore associated with housing (cost), pretty clearly, I lay the responsibility on those experiencing lower life expectancy.

Not drinking is cheaper than drinking.

Not smoking is cheaper than smoking.

Vegetables are cheaper than meat.

Walking is cheaper than driving.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are a multitude of effects at play here.

Hard, manual jobs tend to wear your body out as well as not pay very much.  Easy to see why manual labourers in toxic factories are poorer and die earlier.

Equally, people who are disabled or very ill tend to end up both poor and with shorter lives, through no fault of their own.

On the other side, more intelligent people tend to educate themselves more, with that education leading to earning more money, in a less physically taxing job, and meaning they understand a healthy lifestyle better.  It's not the wealth directly causing their long life, but rather the intelligence driving both their wealth and their lifestyle choices.

It's also worth noting though that money provides opportunity - rich parents pay to make sure their kids are better educated, giving them a leg up in wealth, earnings potential and life expectancy that poorer parents simply can't match.

Finally, in the article it notes that one large group who tend to die more in poorer communities is newborn babies.  Again I suspect that's a mixture of the resources available to, and education of, their parents.  Infant deaths can bring life expectancy averages right down, but in a misleading way: it reads like the poor live to 76 and the rich to 86, but actually is that really the poor living to 80, but the average 80 being brought down to 76 because it also includes a lot of 0s?  However,  that's one area that I do find "deeply worrying" because whereas a grown adult's choice to smoke is their own (and if they die from it they have no-one else to blame) a newborn baby dying because they're living under-nourished in a cold damp house is something we as a society should be trying to avoid.  However, sometimes I think society is misguided eg instead of educating people to have a baby aged 28 we incentivise them to have one at 18 via housing queue-jumping etc.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am in macdonalds in the Kentish Town road eating an ice cream and this is the second person sleeping that has been thrown out by the staff 

oblivious to ‘it’s raining I have no where to go’

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect they're muddling up educated vs uneducated with rich vs poor.  There is some correlation between the two, but they're not the same.

I'm not rich but I know how to peel a carrot, and that booze is bad.  I gave up my stupid smoking habit lots of years ago (a leftover from teenage rebellion, when everyone is a bit stupid).

What's ironic is that I don't think I could actually afford takeaways every night.  Well I suppose I could if I wasn't bothered about saving up and thought a credit card was free money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, spyguy said:

Personal physicians dont cancel out the inbreeding.....

Have you joined the dots of inbreeding and illness and poverty and death 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Next time some idiot demands equality of outcome, rather than equality of opportunity, I will direct them to this statistic and ask them how they would ensure everyone lives to the same age, regardless of lifestyle choices.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of the poor have less to live for, very many of the poor are better off, happier and more contented than the wealthy who have far more to lose.....death is the one sure guarantee...being poor but healthy has to be better than rich poor of health.😉

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, winkie said:

Some of the poor have less to live for, very many of the poor are better off, happier and more contented than the wealthy who have far more to lose.....death is the one sure guarantee...being poor but healthy has to be better than rich poor of health.😉

 

Wealth is never a sign of overall well being.  Many rich live no better existences than poor as they have nothing to strive for everything is easily obtainable. Some poor will appreciate just a few things and have overall better life experience. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, Orsino said:

Next time some idiot demands equality of outcome, rather than equality of opportunity, I will direct them to this statistic and ask them how they would ensure everyone lives to the same age, regardless of lifestyle choices.

Force everyone to smoke and eat unhealithly would do.  I don't that is a good idea though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, oatbake said:

Isn't this largely to do with lifestyle habits? "Poorer" people are statistically likely to have more drug/alcohol/smoking habits. And people with these problems are incidentally more likely to be poor due to these afflictions...

Poverty is a cycle, something needs to break it. A basic income could do that.

Rich people have been blaming the poor for their own troubles for thousands of years, it hasn't fixed anything. Time to try something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Dorkins said:

Poverty is a cycle, something needs to break it. A basic income could do that.

Rich people have been blaming the poor for their own troubles for thousands of years, it hasn't fixed anything. Time to try something else.

The poor are not responsible for all of their problems.  However some problems are caused by people's lifestyle.

Let imagine there are a pair of twins who are 25 and both earn £30K, eat the same etc.  The only difference is twin one spends £8 on cigarettes, twin two puts it into a bank account or pays off his/her mortgage early.  By the time they are 40 there will be a big difference in health and wealth (it would have been a lot more before interest rates were slashed).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, scottbeard said:

Infant deaths can bring life expectancy averages right down, but in a misleading way

That is really interesting, but also like you say deeply worrying and horrible. Average age at first baby is was really quite high - about 30 a few years ago when I had babies. But lower age of mum correlates with less educated, and lower income mums.  You really don't hear much about infant mortality now that sudden infant death isn't in the news.

Young,  poor or less educated mother also coincides with lower breastfeeding rates which feeds into the general health of the population.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, iamnumerate said:

Let imagine there are a pair of twins who are 25 and both earn £30K, eat the same etc.  The only difference is twin one spends £8 on cigarettes, twin two puts it into a bank account or pays off his/her mortgage early.  By the time they are 40 there will be a big difference in health and wealth (it would have been a lot more before interest rates were slashed).

Lol, your hypothetical example crashed into reality and fell apart before you'd even reached the end of one paragraph. Poor people don't have mortgages in 2018 - they are trapped in insecure rentals thanks to decades of pro-HPI policy lobbied for and legislated by rich people. Poor people also can't get any meaningful real return on savings thanks to financial repression designed to benefit the rich and means testing of benefits which means if they try to save they are hurting themselves.

Oh but yeah, the problem is cigarettes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.