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PeanutButter

Ghost towers and empty spas

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Ghost towers and empty spas… London housing is ridiculous

But rather than lowering the price to attract other buyers, developers have chosen to take the unsold flats off the market and keep them empty, claiming the offers they’ve received are “detached from reality”.

 

They can’t keep them empty forever...

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6 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Ghost towers and empty spas… London housing is ridiculous

But rather than lowering the price to attract other buyers, developers have chosen to take the unsold flats off the market and keep them empty, claiming the offers they’ve received are “detached from reality”.

 

They can’t keep them empty forever...

Those empty flats are a tangible manifestation of the misallocation of resources arising from the central banks suppressing interest rates for too long.

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37 minutes ago, happyguy said:

They can do what they want they own it  - some people buy a car and never drive it 

It's actually quite a good analogy. No one is particularly interested in an unused car, but they are very interested in the space it occupies. You cannot park and leave it anywhere you want unless you want to pay a fine or want it removed. Centre Point occupies some of the most valuable space on the planet. It's akin to parking an unused car in the central lane of the M25.

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20 minutes ago, Orsino said:

It's actually quite a good analogy. No one is particularly interested in an unused car, but they are very interested in the space it occupies. You cannot park and leave it anywhere you want unless you want to pay a fine or want it removed. Centre Point occupies some of the most valuable space on the planet. It's akin to parking an unused car in the central lane of the M25.

Presumably they have to pay council tax and maintenance etc.  I wonder how long they can keep it before they HAVE to sell.

They are playing a risky game.

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42 minutes ago, Orsino said:

It's actually quite a good analogy. No one is particularly interested in an unused car, but they are very interested in the space it occupies. You cannot park and leave it anywhere you want unless you want to pay a fine or want it removed.

Not really.  You can park it in your garage or on your drive.  A car that is not ever used can be parked on the public highway providing there are no parking restrictions such as yellow lines etc as long as the car is taxed.

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11 hours ago, PeanutButter said:

Ghost towers and empty spas… London housing is ridiculous

But rather than lowering the price to attract other buyers, developers have chosen to take the unsold flats off the market and keep them empty, claiming the offers they’ve received are “detached from reality”.

 

They can’t keep them empty forever...

Why not? Are there Tories going to punish them by forcing them to pay for wasting a valuable asset (hint: of course not).

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46 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

Why not? Are there Tories going to punish them by forcing them to pay for wasting a valuable asset (hint: of course not).

True

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56 minutes ago, happyguy said:

Not really.  You can park it in your garage or on your drive.  A car that is not ever used can be parked on the public highway providing there are no parking restrictions such as yellow lines etc as long as the car is taxed.

'Providing there are no parking restrictions'

Well exactly. You do not have the right to do whatever you want with a car, just because you own it. It's speed, it's emissions and where it's parked are all controlled for the wider benefit of society. There are clear penalties and restrictions to control people's use of their vehicles. Of course you can stick it on bricks in your garage because that would have very little impact on society. It seems clear to me that having large under-occupied real estate in central London has a clear impact on society. It should be subject to restrictions and penalties that strongly discourage this behaviour.

Let's flip your analogy round the other way. Let's imagine the number of new cars in the UK was tightly restricted and some people started to buy them up and store these valuable assets, unused, in their garages, expecting their value to increase. Speculators would buy up dozens of vehicles before they even hit the road. Existing car owners would lobby to ensure no increase in the number of cars available. People would have to use ever more over-stretched public transport, extortionate taxis or just have to walk to get around. A sensible policy? 

Edited by Orsino

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8 minutes ago, Orsino said:

Let's flip your analogy round the other way. Let's imagine the number of new cars in the UK was tightly restricted and some people started to buy them up and store these valuable assets, unused, in their garages, expecting their value to increase. Speculators would buy up dozens of vehicles before they even hit the road. Existing car owners would lobby to ensure no increase in the number of cars available. People would have to use ever more over-stretched public transport, extortionate taxis or just have to walk to get around. A sensible policy? 

Sounds good to me, less traffic!

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51 minutes ago, fru-gal said:

Why not? Are there Tories going to punish them by forcing them to pay for wasting a valuable asset (hint: of course not).

I don't know they would propably lose less votes than they did under S24.  The Tories want to stay in power so this is not impossible.

It would be quite easy for them to change the rules on council tax.

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13 minutes ago, Orsino said:

'Providing there are no parking restrictions'

Well exactly. You do not have the right to do whatever you want with a car, just because you own it. It's speed, it's emissions and where it's parked are all controlled for the wider benefit of society. There are clear penalties and restrictions to control people's use of their vehicles. Of course you can stick it on bricks in your garage because that would have very little impact on society. It seems clear to me that having large under-occupied real estate in central London has a clear impact on society. It should be subject to restrictions and penalties that strongly discourage this behaviour.

Let's flip your analogy round the other way. Let's imagine the number of new cars in the UK was tightly restricted and some people started to buy them up and store these valuable assets, unused, in their garages, expecting their value to increase. Speculators would buy up dozens of vehicles before they even hit the road. Existing car owners would lobby to ensure no increase in the number of cars available. People would have to use ever more over-stretched public transport, extortionate taxis or just have to walk to get around. A sensible policy? 

And people would rent out their inventory of cars, charging the users of those cars for maintenance that isn't needed, ignore their responsibilities to keep the cars safe/appropriate to use, and then they would run endless propaganda that the cars would just disappear into thin air if the props for their little cosy arrangement were removed.

Still not sure how "vehicle agents" would fit into this analogy but ti would probably not shed a flattering light on their practices either.

Edited by Aidan Ap Word

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1 hour ago, Si1 said:
2 hours ago, happyguy said:

You know their financial affairs then? 

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No i do not purport to know their financial affairs or anyone else's other than my own - that is why I make no assumptions. 

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Just now, happyguy said:

No i do not purport to know their financial affairs or anyone else's other than my own - that is why I make no assumptions. 

You assumed they owned it. That's an assumption.

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1 hour ago, Orsino said:

Of course you can stick it on bricks in your garage because that would have very little impact on society.

I agree but metaphorically speaking that is exactly what these guys have done by taking these flats off the market - they have parked them and left them.  Not saying it is right or sensible but that is what they have chosen to do.  

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5 minutes ago, Si1 said:

You assumed they owned it. That's an assumption.

I used the wrong wording sorry but am at work and was in the middle of something.  Fact is I do not know if they have a loan or have paid cash.  Nor do I care and nor am I greatly interested - it is not my business

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why not just fill it full of the grenfell residents ? its pretty much the same cr*p built concrete rubbish that was made from.  

maximum council tax should be charged to all empty property on completion. 

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1 hour ago, happyguy said:

I used the wrong wording sorry but am at work and was in the middle of something.  Fact is I do not know if they have a loan or have paid cash.  Nor do I care and nor am I greatly interested - it is not my business

Oh grow up you do care otherwise you wouldn't be arguing whether they can keep it empty or not. It's an intellectual discussion regarding caring about the functioning of the housing market.

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  • 244 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
      • down 2.5%
      • Even
      • up 2.5%
      • up 5%



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