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Would you place the future of housing in Roger Scrutons Hands ?

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A bit of a hostile review, but all the same, a fascinating range of issues exploding out of  a quite bizarrely ideological appointment -  and for that matter Commission. 

Is going about housing like a mad mullah really going to help ?

Quote

 

The stated purpose of the commission is to “tackle the challenge of poor quality design and build of homes and places, across the country and help ensure as we build for the future, we do so with popular consent.” Its chair will in theory wield considerable influence over the built form of the country.

Scruton’s appointment has been met with alarm on two fronts. The first is his record of past remarks on subjects other than architecture – that there is “no such crime” as date rape, that homosexuality is “not normal”, that Islamophobia is “invented” – which have caused MPs to demand his resignation. Luciana Berger, parliamentary chair of the Jewish Labour Movement also said he should go, on the basis of remarks that she said reinforced antisemitic conspiracy theories about the philanthropist George Soros.

The second objection came from the architectural world, for whom Scruton represents a throwback to one of the most wearying and sterile phases of British architecture, the style wars that blighted the 1980s. “A tedious hangover”, one called him. For Scruton promotes what he calls “vernacular” architecture – by which he means buildings that follow the details and compositions of past styles – and denigrates “modernism” – by which he means anything that does not. He is entitled to these views, but he pursues them with the dogmatism of which he accuses others.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/nov/25/would-you-trust-roger-scruton-to-design-your-new-home-commission-building-better-building-beautiful

 

Some further digging:

Quote

Douglas Murphy, author of ‘Last Futures: Nature, Technology and the End of Architecture’ commented that, "...the aesthetics stuff doesn't matter so much, it's low-hanging fruit to say ‘beautiful old things are beautiful’ and it will have next to no effect on a sector that is already completely dysfunctional."

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Building_Better,_Building_Beautiful_Commission

Quote

There is a clear link between its aesthetic agenda and the views of the far right. It's also sick that this should be at the forefront of governments thinking around architecture and the built environment when we are in the midst of a housing crisis this government has singularly failed to address, and when homelessness has increased by 60 per cent since 2012

https://www.dezeen.com/2018/11/14/opinion-building-better-building-beautiful-commission-sam-jacob/

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I don't know much about his credentials, but if it's in his character to make un-PC / Guardian unfriendly comments that maybe useful, if only because of an indpendent mind and resilience would be be needed.  Pressure from from the vested interests will be a tougher test.

Edited by nightowl

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5 hours ago, nightowl said:

I don't know much about his credentials, but if it's in his character to make un-PC / Guardian unfriendly comments that maybe useful, if only because of an indpendent mind and resilience would be be needed.  Pressure from from the vested interests will be a tougher test.

There is that - the articles fall over themselves to criticise his various phobias and isms, which to my taste are no less contemptible for being guardian unfriendly.

But, keeping eye on the ball, presumably VI's in the form of volume house-builders would love it ?

And what on earth is going on with the conservative party in the middle of a housing crisis ? They are becoming a caricature of themselves. There is a 'let them eat [my] cake' quality to his thinking:

Quote

There is a need, Scruton has written, for a “law-governed order” which exists uniquely in classical architecture: “With the Roman building types began the true history of European architecture, which is the history of implied order.” Such architecture, he believes, is about “the sanctifying of ordinary humanity”, as everyday buildings adapt principles and motifs set out by grand religious structures: “The language of the temple informs the ancient city, and survives in every facade and alleyway, in every window frame and door.”

WTF ? Is this some sort of reactionary, authoritarian wet dream ? And isn't there something in the bible about putting up false gods ?

The remit of the body he has been appointed to is to

Quote

“tackle the challenge of poor quality design and build of homes and places, across the country and help ensure as we build for the future, we do so with popular consent.”

...which would be OK at face value, but for the previous quote which seems to colour it as actually imposing a reactionary design style through sort of design 'populism'. My cheeky bold...

In other news - how many homeless this Christmas ?

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On 26/11/2018 at 18:59, pig said:

A bit of a hostile review, but all the same, a fascinating range of issues exploding out of  a quite bizarrely ideological appointment -  and for that matter Commission. 

Is going about housing like a mad mullah really going to help ?

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2018/nov/25/would-you-trust-roger-scruton-to-design-your-new-home-commission-building-better-building-beautiful

 

Some further digging:

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Building_Better,_Building_Beautiful_Commission

https://www.dezeen.com/2018/11/14/opinion-building-better-building-beautiful-commission-sam-jacob/

 

 

To answer your question: yes.

 

Quote

There is a clear link between its aesthetic agenda and the views of the far right. It's also sick that this should be at the forefront of governments thinking around architecture and the built environment when we are in the midst of a housing crisis this government has singularly failed to address, and when homelessness has increased by 60 per cent since 2012

Oh no, the natzees are back, quick, run for cover.

 

Honestly...

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On 26/11/2018 at 18:59, pig said:

The second objection came from the architectural world, for whom Scruton represents a throwback to one of the most wearying and sterile phases of British architecture, the style wars that blighted the 1980s. “A tedious hangover”, one called him. For Scruton promotes what he calls “vernacular” architecture – by which he means buildings that follow the details and compositions of past styles – and denigrates “modernism” – by which he means anything that does not. He is entitled to these views, but he pursues them with the dogmatism of which he accuses o...

Modernist architecture is trash, that's why people, i,r the market, will pay more to live in victorian semis than 60's  commie blocks. So Scruton is right here.

 

On 26/11/2018 at 18:59, pig said:

Douglas Murphy, author of ‘Last Futures: Nature, Technology and the End of Architecture’ commented that, "...the aesthetics stuff doesn't matter so much, it's low-hanging fruit to say ‘beautiful old things are beautiful’ and it will have next to no effect on a sector that is already completely dysfunctional."

Are you sure you want to quote Murphy? Isn't he another natzeee? I disagree with Murphy on aesthetics. People don't want to live in soulless left wing Utopian cement blocks. [save some very avant guarde types]

 

21 hours ago, pig said:

There is a need, Scruton has written, for a “law-governed order” which exists uniquely in classical architecture: “With the Roman building types began the true history of European architecture, which is the history of implied order.” Such architecture, he believes, is about “the sanctifying of ordinary humanity”, as everyday buildings adapt principles and motifs set out by grand religious structures: “The language of the temple informs the ancient city, and survives in every facade and alleyway, in every window frame and door.”

Again, where is the lie. Every year millions of tourists go to visit the coliseum, the Vatican, the louvre, the Parthenon amongst many others. That's because the architecture of those different civilisations is rich, unlike the tat built today

 

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21 hours ago, pig said:

There is that - the articles fall over themselves to criticise his various phobias and isms, which to my taste are no less contemptible for being guardian unfriendly.

But, keeping eye on the ball, presumably VI's in the form of volume house-builders would love it ?

Most house builders today build crapy quality, identikit, highly condensed housing.

 

In order to create something that is new today with any form of aesthetic you would need a plot of land, big £££ and planning permission. Only when we do away with the planning permission system willwe be free to build new forms of aesthetic architecture imho

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21 hours ago, pig said:

There is a 'let them eat [my] cake' quality to his thinking:

This exactly.

Architects know as much about the housing crisis as Heston Blumanthal knows about famine relief.  It shows just how divorced from reality some people are. 

In any case, modern housing isn’t crap because the architects have ‘modernist’ taste.  Modern housing is crap because it was designed on the cheap, to be easily reproducible and profitable by companies with little real competition. 

Edited by BorrowToLeech

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2 hours ago, BorrowToLeech said:

This exactly.

Architects know as much about the housing crisis as Heston Blumanthal knows about famine relief.  It shows just how divorced from reality some people are. 

In any case, modern housing isn’t crap because the architects have ‘modernist’ taste.  Modern housing is crap because it was designed on the cheap, to be easily reproducible and profitable by companies with little real competition. 

I bet Scruton's a climate science expert too. Like every other member of the Neoliberal Thought Collective.

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2 hours ago, No One said:

Modernist architecture is trash, that's why people, i,r the market, will pay more to live in victorian semis than 60's  commie blocks. So Scruton is right here.

 

Are you sure you want to quote Murphy? Isn't he another natzeee? I disagree with Murphy on aesthetics. People don't want to live in soulless left wing Utopian cement blocks. [save some very avant guarde types]

 

Again, where is the lie. Every year millions of tourists go to visit the coliseum, the Vatican, the louvre, the Parthenon amongst many others. That's because the architecture of those different civilisations is rich, unlike the tat built today

 

And nobody ever goes to visit Fallingwater, the Sydney Opera House, or the Guggenheim Museum...

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4 hours ago, No One said:

Modernist architecture is trash, that's why people, i,r the market, will pay more to live in victorian semis than 60's  commie blocks. So Scruton is right here.

 

Are you sure you want to quote Murphy? Isn't he another natzeee? I disagree with Murphy on aesthetics. People don't want to live in soulless left wing Utopian cement blocks. [save some very avant guarde types]

 

Again, where is the lie. Every year millions of tourists go to visit the coliseum, the Vatican, the louvre, the Parthenon amongst many others. That's because the architecture of those different civilisations is rich, unlike the tat built today

 

Lol - well there you go there is a market for populist architecture ! God help us.

Perhaps 30 years + ago  this would have made sense, at least in the UK. I don't think so anymore. 

I have no idea who Murphy is to be honest - but I think as is hinted the world has moved on from Prince Charles spat with architecture. Will be interesting to see the Poundbury documentary - but I suspect it would be horrible to Poundbury the UK to death.

Grand Designs has been going for ages and that grew out of the whole house refurb craze which was pretty indifferent to style. And I'm struggling to categorise Hyde Park One as a 'soulless left wing Utopian cement block' - its not even my cup of tea either !

I like the Parthenon to visit - but I wouldn't live in it :). Love the Southbank in London, including the really rough concrete bits that many love to hate. 

The Royal Festival Hall is simply a fantastic and highly popular building full of life. People just love spending time in it for all sorts of wildly different reasons - I've seen people having birthday parties in it ! 

If you 'Scruton'ize it I guess its a commie utopian cement block  - but thereby proving what a load of cr4p he is spouting.

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5 hours ago, No One said:

Most house builders today build crapy quality, identikit, highly condensed housing.

 

In order to create something that is new today with any form of aesthetic you would need a plot of land, big £££ and planning permission. Only when we do away with the planning permission system willwe be free to build new forms of aesthetic architecture imho

So you could build crappy quality identikit highly condensed housing and smear Scrutons aesthetic system on them. Well, aren't they doing that already ?

I think the only solution is to 'democratise' house building somehow. By which I mean more people build their own houses rather than them being factory produced by a handful of house-builders.

You'd care about the building more and would be more likely to spend where it counts rather than homes going through the death of a thousand (volume-built) cuts. It might lead to a nice variety - like you see in other countries.

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2 hours ago, pig said:

So you could build crappy quality identikit highly condensed housing and smear Scrutons aesthetic system on them. Well, aren't they doing that already ?

I think the only solution is to 'democratise' house building somehow. By which I mean more people build their own houses rather than them being factory produced by a handful of house-builders.

You'd care about the building more and would be more likely to spend where it counts rather than homes going through the death of a thousand (volume-built) cuts. It might lead to a nice variety - like you see in other countries.

No, what I said is:

7 hours ago, No One said:

Most house builders today build crapy quality, identikit, highly condensed housing.

 

In order to create something that is new today with any form of aesthetic you would need a plot of land, big £££ and planning permission. Only when we do away with the planning permission system willwe be free to build new forms of aesthetic architecture imho

 

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1 hour ago, No One said:

No, what I said is:

 

Yes you did say that - and er ... that was my response.

Id add that doing away with planning permission is probably based on a misdiagnosis.

The issue is ‘access’ to land. I’d imagine for example you could designate land for self-builders. 

We’re forcefeeding the population McHouses, McScrutonHousss are no better. Time to allow people invest in their own projects not add insult to injury by forcing them under the will of a weirdo religious  style idealogue.

 

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17 minutes ago, pig said:

Yes you did say that - and er ... that was my response.

Id add that doing away with planning permission is probably based on a misdiagnosis.

The issue is ‘access’ to land. I’d imagine for example you could designate land for self-builders. 

We’re forcefeeding the population McHouses, McScrutonHousss are no better. Time to allow people invest in their own projects not add insult to injury by forcing them under the will of a weirdo religious  style idealogue.

 

The planning permission act was put into place because everyone was leaving the blighted cities for the countryside creating a sprawl.

But its 2018, WW2 is well behind. London is growing not shrinking. The housing is not keeping up with population demands, The planning permission act is redundant. We could build whatever we like under a build your own system. If you wAnted a Victorian looking house you could make it, if you wanted  to live in a postmodern concrete block, you could, build two if you like.

If a plot belongs to you, who is to say you can't build there?

 

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17 hours ago, No One said:

The planning permission act was put into place because everyone was leaving the blighted cities for the countryside creating a sprawl.

But its 2018, WW2 is well behind. London is growing not shrinking. The housing is not keeping up with population demands, The planning permission act is redundant. We could build whatever we like under a build your own system. If you wAnted a Victorian looking house you could make it, if you wanted  to live in a postmodern concrete block, you could, build two if you like.

If a plot belongs to you, who is to say you can't build there?

 

I'm kind of struggling to disagree with you there - will have a think !

Interestingly it sounds like  the polar opposite of this Scruton chap.

In political terms I guess your view libertarian his is authoritarian ?

In which case in the  'build what you want' vs 'build what we tell you' scenario there are similar arguments around obligations to others, the individual vs community etc as to libertarian vs authoritarian.

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On 28/11/2018 at 15:14, zugzwang said:

I bet Scruton's a climate science expert too. Like every other member of the Neoliberal Thought Collective.

Funnily enough the commission is described in the article as:

" emerging from work done by the conservative thinktank Policy Exchange – an opaquely funded body known (for example) for its support for hard Brexit"

Worryingly  the article speculates in comparison its  reasonable compared to  Scrutons views.

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12 hours ago, No One said:

not surprised tbf, too many cucks in the torry party. They will never defend their own

Lol you think the Tories are a load of cucks  pandering to the British public ?

What dark corner of the political spectrum are you from ?

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On 20/04/2019 at 11:02, pig said:

Lol you think the Tories are a load of cucks  pandering to the British public ?

What dark corner of the political spectrum are you from ?

The realist side

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5 hours ago, No One said:

The realist side

Good for you ! Still a chance then you’ll be able to wake up one day from wherever your head is and be horrified.

Happy Easter ! :)

 

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1 hour ago, pig said:

Good for you ! Still a chance then you’ll be able to wake up one day from wherever your head is and be horrified.

Happy Easter ! :)

 

I am horrified already by what I say.

 

Happy Easter. May God be with you

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  • 145 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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      • down 5% +
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