hotblack42 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Confusion of VIs said: I wouldn't bet on that. The company will say that by hiding your travel and coming back into work your are both deliberately breaking company rules and putting your colleagues at risk = Gross Misconduct = fired on the spot. Yes. Which is why its wise to aim for the Position of F*** you rather than hone a 'career' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2buyornot2buy Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: I wouldn't bet on that. The company will say that by hiding your travel and coming back into work your are both deliberately breaking company rules and putting your colleagues at risk = Gross Misconduct = fired on the spot. I wouldn't bet on the outcome of many tribunals either but on this we'll have to agree to disagree. The company can put forward any case they want and argue that to the panel but an employee wouldn't have to hide anything, they can say they went on personal travel. A sanction or sacking, would result in a very strong unfair dismissal case. There are few FCO travel bans. This would trump any convoluted company policy IMO. Edited March 5, 2020 by 2buyornot2buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trump Invective Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 Better get HS2 and 3 up and running quickly then ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: They can, we have roomfuls of lawyers who would have picked up any legal issue. My contract, like most peoples, states annual leave has to be approved and can be cancelled if necessary for business reasons. We are contactable on leave, logging on which everyone does at least occasionally would disclose your location. I and the people I have spoken to so far are happy with the move. I have two non refundable BC seats to Thailand booked with Lufthansa in May; intending to tour Thialand, Laos and Vietnam. I had already resigned myself to not going and as Lufthansa are trying to tough out sticking to their no refunds policy probably losing the money. Now work will pick up the tab if necessary. Another guy had a cruise booked and let out a huge cheer when the email arrived, he has already decided not to go on it and stood to lose £10k. sounds like sweat shop laws to me. No wonder salaries are so behind when you have draconian laws like that. why not just let you go then self isolate when you come back and work from home. same with the cruise guy 10k ? really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Dorkins said: That's hilarious. There's coronavirus in Stevenage right now, where's the HR email banning staff from going there on a day off? What's more hilarious is the thought that things are going to continue as normal over the next few months. Cancelled holidays are going to be a very minor irritation in a couple of months. Most people here are bright enough to realise that their holidays were probably not going to go ahead anyway, so having a guarantee of a refund is seen as a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, longgone said: sounds like sweat shop laws to me. No wonder salaries are so behind when you have draconian laws like that. why not just let you go then self isolate when you come back and work from home. same with the cruise guy 10k ? really Average pay across the company is well into 6 figures and most staff could walk out and into another job tomorrow, so hardly a sweatshop. Those "draconian laws" are present in most peoples work contracts, certainly in every contract I have had; even the civil service had the same terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: Average pay across the company is well into 6 figures and most staff could walk out and into another job tomorrow, so hardly a sweatshop. Those "draconian laws" are present in most peoples work contracts, certainly in every contract I have had; even the civil service had the same terms. Must be nice knowing they own your life once you sign the contract though. To be fair though i have had a manager in the past try something similar continually object to holiday in july and august and would approve time in September. i ensured my time off coincided with a big project at work for 2 weeks which they had seemed to of forgot about. Felt good telling them i had already paid and booked for everything so was unable to change my plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkins Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: What's more hilarious is the thought that things are going to continue as normal over the next few months. Cancelled holidays are going to be a very minor irritation in a couple of months. Most people here are bright enough to realise that their holidays were probably not going to go ahead anyway, so having a guarantee of a refund is seen as a good thing. I still think its comical that HR departments think they are on the front line of controlling a global pandemic, ours is the same. Corporate environments do lend themselves to these kinds of cult behaviours. None of these changes to company travel policy will have any effect on the proportion of their staff who ultimately contract the virus. Edited March 5, 2020 by Dorkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kzb Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Confusion of VIs said: They can, we have roomfuls of lawyers who would have picked up any legal issue. My contract, like most peoples, states annual leave has to be approved and can be cancelled if necessary for business reasons. We are contactable on leave, logging on which everyone does at least occasionally would disclose your location. I and the people I have spoken to so far are happy with the move. I have two non refundable BC seats to Thailand booked with Lufthansa in May; intending to tour Thialand, Laos and Vietnam. I had already resigned myself to not going and as Lufthansa are trying to tough out sticking to their no refunds policy probably losing the money. Now work will pick up the tab if necessary. Another guy had a cruise booked and let out a huge cheer when the email arrived, he has already decided not to go on it and stood to lose £10k. Yes they can say that leave is to be taken according to business needs (and subject to legislation as well). But they can't tell you where you can and cannot go whilst on leave surely. That is different. But legal point aside I am pleased they are running a compensation scheme which encourages staff not to travel. Encouraging is one thing, but telling employees what they can do in their own time is overstepping the mark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Dorkins said: I still think its comical that HR departments think they are on the front line of controlling a global pandemic, ours is the same. Corporate environments do lend themselves to these kinds of cult behaviours. None of these changes to company travel policy will have any effect on the proportion of their staff who ultimately contract the virus. well it gives them something to do all day while their agency pimps sort out the hiring of cheap labour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCountOfNowhere Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 Saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 28 minutes ago, TheCountOfNowhere said: Saga. Saga cruise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 45 minutes ago, longgone said: Must be nice knowing they own your life once you sign the contract though. To be fair though i have had a manager in the past try something similar continually object to holiday in july and august and would approve time in September. i ensured my time off coincided with a big project at work for 2 weeks which they had seemed to of forgot about. Felt good telling them i had already paid and booked for everything so was unable to change my plans. And you seem to wonder why you have made yourself unemployable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 12 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: And you seem to wonder why you have made yourself unemployable? Nope not at all. but then earning six figures greases the mechanism does it not. It does not help when these businesses are run by insulated delusional out of touch boomers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: And you seem to wonder why you have made yourself unemployable? His skilkset may be obsolete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, prozac said: His skilkset may be obsolete This thread is not about me. i was merely making a statement about the practices of employers and their expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simvastatin Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, longgone said: This thread is not about me. i was merely making a statement about the practices of employers and their expectations. We all seem to be turning on each other, a distopian society Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotblack42 Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 11 minutes ago, Confusion of VIs said: And you seem to wonder why you have made yourself unemployable? Pfft.. a month after the 6 figure gig I started in 2013 I went on a 22 day break in California. They'd struggled to find a Tech BA and knew I knew, and that it would have been 'f*** you' if they'd tried anything. I was eventually terminated after 23 months - so I pointed out the relevant clause in my contract, billed for another £10k & drove off into the sunset - yee hah! I expect some think this is bull, I suppose I could post redacted Cater Allen statements...? I don't buy all this aligning with the high flying company objectives, getting ahead nonsense, never have. Current job is Technology Risk Management in Stockbroking (Covid-19 is generating a lot of interest - stress tested your remote working chain recently? do ya feel lucky punk?, well do ya?). I could be back on 6 figs again if I engaged in corporate crap and worked 45hrs over 5 days, but I'll stick to good money for 30hrs over 4, and be free to call things as I see them, ta very much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeanutButter Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, prozac said: We all seem to be turning on each other, a distopian society Hunger Games online Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, prozac said: We all seem to be turning on each other, a distopian society i just find it hard to believe an employer has the power to tell what you cannot do or not do on your time off. No doubt using it as a tool for dismissal so sick pay is denied if an outbreak occurs in the company. not good having everyone one off sick still being paid when you can just draw a line in the sand and tell them not to step over it. HR be HR diverting blame in a time of crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, longgone said: Nope not at all. but then earning six figures greases the mechanism does it not. It does not help when these businesses are run by insulated delusional out of touch boomers. Firm is mainly run by Gen X, with the odd boomer and millennial. Big focus on staff development and well being, probably pretty much exactly the opposite of what you imagine. 1 minute ago, longgone said: i just find it hard to believe an employer has the power to tell what you cannot do or not do on your time off. No doubt using it as a tool for dismissal so sick pay is denied if an outbreak occurs in the company. not good having everyone one off sick still being paid when you can just draw a line in the sand and tell them not to step over it. HR be HR diverting blame in a time of crisis. If there is an outbreak people will work from home. Staff have already been told they are free to work from home where practical. I expect that will become an instruction within the next couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riedquat Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 13 minutes ago, longgone said: i just find it hard to believe an employer has the power to tell what you cannot do or not do on your time off. No doubt using it as a tool for dismissal so sick pay is denied if an outbreak occurs in the company. not good having everyone one off sick still being paid when you can just draw a line in the sand and tell them not to step over it. HR be HR diverting blame in a time of crisis. Sounds pretty grim to me. I take the view that unless you're on call - which you shouldn't be in time off otherwise it's not really time off - where you are, what you're doing, and who you contact is absolutely none of your employer's business. And whilst sometimes there might be exceptional cases where it's reasonable for them to ask you to cancel already booked leave they certainly should be exceptional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longgone Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Riedquat said: Sounds pretty grim to me. I take the view that unless you're on call - which you shouldn't be in time off otherwise it's not really time off - where you are, what you're doing, and who you contact is absolutely none of your employer's business. And whilst sometimes there might be exceptional cases where it's reasonable for them to ask you to cancel already booked leave they certainly should be exceptional. That`s what i thought have a work phone on while on holiday. just a continued effort to water down your rights. Not to worry you are paid well so just do as we say always. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confusion of VIs Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, hotblack42 said: Pfft.. a month after the 6 figure gig I started in 2013 I went on a 22 day break in California. They'd struggled to find a Tech BA and knew I knew, and that it would have been 'f*** you' if they'd tried anything. I was eventually terminated after 23 months - so I pointed out the relevant clause in my contract, billed for another £10k & drove off into the sunset - yee hah! I expect some think this is bull, I suppose I could post redacted Cater Allen statements...? I don't buy all this aligning with the high flying company objectives, getting ahead nonsense, never have. Current job is Technology Risk Management in Stockbroking (Covid-19 is generating a lot of interest - stress tested your remote working chain recently? do ya feel lucky punk?, well do ya?). I could be back on 6 figs again if I engaged in corporate crap and worked 45hrs over 5 days, but I'll stick to good money for 30hrs over 4, and be free to call things as I see them, ta very much. Not sure what this has to do with longgone's previous posts about his current employability. Contracting is fine if that's what you want. I did it for most of the 90's but 8yrs of it was enough for me, by then I was tired of being the hired hand and wanted to have some real influence in the organisation I was working in. Money was not the motivation for stopping as contracting was pretty lucrative back then (in 1992 I was on £700 a day), today not so much as rates have stagnated for years and tax treatment is less generous than it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shrink Proof Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 3 hours ago, Dorkins said: That's hilarious. There's coronavirus in Stevenage right now, where's the HR email banning staff from going there on a day off? Nobody needs to be told (by HR or anybody else) not to voluntarily choose to go to Stevenage in their own free time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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