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disenfranchised

Social housing - how would you do it?

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I'm one of the people on here who believes the only way to deliver decent housing for low income people is to bring back a degree of state planned and delivered social housing. 

We seem to have had years of policy aimed at spreading people dependent on the state for housing support amongst the rest of us. Everybody in the bottom 75% wealth wise gets to share in having the minority of scummers who turned large council housing projects into sink estates live amongst us, instead of concentrated into certain areas. It was supposed to break class divides that prevented social mobility and so on, but that has actually been declining for years so the policies must be seen in light of that. We never used to have school catchment driving house prices locally like it does now - the middle class cluster themselves in areas without any low cost housing, creating enclaves where most of the kids at the local secondary school are dropped off in an Audi.

If we were to see a return to social house building, how would you approach it? How many, where, how would it be designed, financed, built and managed?

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The Government needs to redirect all the billions going towards housing benefit and LHA into building millions of new homes at social housing prices. Sink estates occur because the "poorest" naturally are those in the cheapest areas. If all areas are cheap and there is enough housing for everyone (at lowish costs) then there would be less extremes between very expensive areas and very cheap areas. Successive Governments have done this, there weren't such extremes in past decades (most people were either lower middle class and had a home to live in rather than an asset or poor 😉). The financialization of housing has been terrible for the economy and for the social fabric of this country. Also, completely discourages hard work and career progression as people are effectively punished (either taxed more or excluded from certain benefits) for improving their lot.

I would also end school allocation by catchment as that does contribute towards high house prices and makes state schools effectively "private ones" as middle class parents have more money to contribute to the schools and naturally attract people with a certain life view which is self fulfilling. This means that well behaved, bright but poor kids end up in sink schools and end up failing because the schools they end up at often do not have the extra funds or motivation  (by parents) to make the school a success a lot of the time (hence a self-fulfilling prophecy in the other direction).

Edited by fru-gal

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Small quality new units to rent integrated with existing stock, roads, communities.....built for local working people and families to rent, a rent that can allow them to also save.....not to be sold but rented out for fixed five year periods to be reviewd and extended if appropriate.....perhaps means tested so that the full-time low paid local workers benefit......incentives for council renters to buy another home of their own at some point in the future so the property can be reoccupied by other people/families with housing needs, not designed as a cheap rent nice place for life.....no subletting.....like many are at the moment.....councils/housing associations should be checking who is actually living in the property they rent out, is it the people they think it is.😉

Built by both public and private.....land already owned by the nation, the land remains owned by the nation/councils......let the local councils borrow to build on the land they already own and collect the rents, some of the rents to be used to maintain their buildings as well as repay the debt.......one day they will not only still own the land they will also own the buildings.

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49 minutes ago, disenfranchised said:

. It was supposed to break class divides that prevented social mobility

What evidence do you have that the old order had a filter for social mobility based on housing, and how does commie housing blocks remove class divide?

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52 minutes ago, disenfranchised said:

creating enclaves where most of the kids at the local secondary school are dropped off in an Audi

Hmmm, its as things have deteriorated since the old Grammar schools systems was abolished, perhaps its because in yesteryear  you had 1/3 of places allocated to bright working class kids, and today we all have to be equal, equally crap

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My idea around social housing would be considered radical. 80% at least of the park should be social housing. People who want to pay top money to satisfy their ego can still do so. Seriously the UK architecture is already so identical. You have terraced houses, or blocks of flat. 

17 minutes ago, No One said:

 how does commie housing blocks remove class divide?

You don't have to build tenements the way the USSR did. We can still use our collective brain to do better than that. And like I pointed every houses are the same here. reception, sitting, kitchen at the bottom. 3 bedrooms at the top. And the bathroom can vary from, next to the kitchen (...) to being upstairs.

And the appartment blocks and there I described 90% of the housing park. 

So let's stop people from fleecing us all, have it administered by the state, make it a constitutional right that we don't have to spend 50% of our income on rent to put in the pocket of landlords in a feudal way, people will have more money, more freedom.

The current system obviously is broken

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3 minutes ago, Freki said:

My idea around social housing would be considered radical. 80% at least of the park should be social housing.
...
every houses are the same here. reception, sitting, kitchen at the bottom. 3 bedrooms at the top. And the bathroom can vary from, next to the kitchen (...) to being upstairs.

Most houses have the same layout because by and large no matter where people live that's the layout they want. That doesn't mean that having them 80% State-owned and State-allocated is a good idea.

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1 hour ago, Freki said:

So let's stop people from fleecing us all

Yes

1 hour ago, Freki said:

have it administered by the state

Which is...people

1 hour ago, Freki said:

make it a constitutional right that we don't have to spend 50% of our income on rent to put in the pocket of landlords in a feudal way

Commie.

1 hour ago, Freki said:

people will have more money, more freedom.

tenor.gif

1 hour ago, Freki said:

The current system obviously is broken

Nope. It is working as intended. The State is the mechanism whereby the politically well-connected extract the maximal amount of wealth from the populace while minimising the risk that they will meaningfully resist.

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  • Cut Housing Benefits, Child benefits, Help To Sell Buy
  • Normalise interest rates
  • Cut taxes to the bone
  • Abolish planning permission
  • Abolish green belts

Done.

Everyone who wants to work can afford to live, houses won't be speculative assets and political hacks will live in the sewers where they belong.

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3 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

creating enclaves where most of the kids at the local secondary school are dropped off in an Audi.

So what? Envy is so ugly.

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Good design. Low rise, high density. Communal resources, shared access. Shared security. 

Pedestrian/child friendly, no car central zone (see Span estates). Decent soundproofing, attention to lighting and rough/manicured green spaces. Varying property sizes to allow growth and movement throughout the estate from a starter studio to a 5 bed and back down again. Majority wheelchair/stroller accessible.

Local support infrastructure; schools, daycare, elder centre, shops, recreation/activity halls, allotments.  Multiple transport options (train OR bus OR cycleway). 

An active residents' council monitoring anti-social behaviour, subletting, managing venue rental etc. 

Above all a ring-fenced maintenance fund, not subject to local political wrangles. 

Good design, with people in mind, with longevity built in. Community. 

 

NO high rises. 

 

Edited by PeanutButter

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4 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

If we were to see a return to social house building, how would you approach it? How many, where, how would it be designed, financed, built and managed?

I believe it's not something that can implemented... ie: large scale social housing.

The only long term solution for the UK is wind down inheritance relief and disincentivise property as an investment vehicle.

You remove those crutches and the market will self regulate.

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1 hour ago, cashinmattress said:

The only long term solution for the UK is wind down inheritance relief

Or abolish IHT.

Less theft is better than more.

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19 hours ago, disenfranchised said:

I'm one of the people on here who believes the only way to deliver decent housing for low income people is to bring back a degree of state planned and delivered social housing. 

We seem to have had years of policy aimed at spreading people dependent on the state for housing support amongst the rest of us. Everybody in the bottom 75% wealth wise gets to share in having the minority of scummers who turned large council housing projects into sink estates live amongst us, instead of concentrated into certain areas. It was supposed to break class divides that prevented social mobility and so on, but that has actually been declining for years so the policies must be seen in light of that. We never used to have school catchment driving house prices locally like it does now - the middle class cluster themselves in areas without any low cost housing, creating enclaves where most of the kids at the local secondary school are dropped off in an Audi.

If we were to see a return to social house building, how would you approach it? How many, where, how would it be designed, financed, built and managed?

The one massive problem I have with social housing along with Corbyns ambitious house building plans is the fact that currency for these types of properties is usually a fatherless child with a non working mother. Just try and get social housing as a working taxpayer with no kids to emotionally blackmail with, zero chance.

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1 hour ago, localhero1983 said:

The one massive problem I have with social housing along with Corbyns ambitious house building plans is the fact that currency for these types of properties is usually a fatherless child with a non working mother. Just try and get social housing as a working taxpayer with no kids to emotionally blackmail with, zero chance.

+1

 

Also a lot of social housing in the past was really badly built, I worry that the same would happen again (no private housing has been as bad as Ronan Point AFAIK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point)

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2 hours ago, localhero1983 said:

The one massive problem I have with social housing along with Corbyns ambitious house building plans is the fact that currency for these types of properties is usually a fatherless child with a non working mother. Just try and get social housing as a working taxpayer with no kids to emotionally blackmail with, zero chance.

There are areas where it is possible to get a one bed house for single never married local working people with no children, never had children.....I know because I know them..... won't say where all be rushing to live there.😉

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Build enough council houses to meet the demand.

Every single citizen should be guaranteed a council house for rent only, if they require one.

Those who want to buy a bigger, better built house in a nicer area can do so.

The current system of restricting a basic human right.....Shelter.........is an absolute disgrace for a so called civilised country.

 

Restricting shelter was all part of old Thatcher's  grand plan to control employees, so that they cannot strike and are forced to be wage slaves forever.

Human beings at their finest once again.  All about controlling others.

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On 06/11/2018 at 14:01, Locke said:
 
  • Cut taxes to the bone
  • Abolish planning permission
  • Abolish green belt

We have killed 60% of animals on this planet! 

We need less people not more housing 

• close boarders

• stop child benefits 

• make it possible for councils to buy houses off buy to let scum 

• ban buy to leech mortgages 

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3 minutes ago, Captain Kirk said:

Just put interest rates up to where they should be then it will be all over. Houses will become an expense again rather than something to speculate with.

Wouldn't that also kill some Zombie companies?  Which might be a bad idea for unemployment etc in the short term.

(I am not saying that the current state of affairs is a good thing, but I am not sure cold turkey is possible).

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On ‎06‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:00, disenfranchised said:

I'm one of the people on here who believes the only way to deliver decent housing for low income people is to bring back a degree of state planned and delivered social housing. 

We seem to have had years of policy aimed at spreading people dependent on the state for housing support amongst the rest of us. Everybody in the bottom 75% wealth wise gets to share in having the minority of scummers who turned large council housing projects into sink estates live amongst us, instead of concentrated into certain areas. It was supposed to break class divides that prevented social mobility and so on, but that has actually been declining for years so the policies must be seen in light of that. We never used to have school catchment driving house prices locally like it does now - the middle class cluster themselves in areas without any low cost housing, creating enclaves where most of the kids at the local secondary school are dropped off in an Audi.

If we were to see a return to social house building, how would you approach it? How many, where, how would it be designed, financed, built and managed?

They should build all new housing estates like ours in the S/E. New builds in 2009 , small 50 house estate in a peacefull village , 40 private houses (including ours) behind a remote control gate to control access and the 10 social houses , 4 either side of the private entrance road, outside the gate facing the existing village road. 

That way the poor cant reach the better off, we feel safer, and the social tenants can be monitored as you drive in every day and grumbled about parking their vans and cars on one side when they get 2 allocated parking spaces.

I still chuckle every time I use my keyfob to open the gates to leave / enter, at how the builders very got this blatant segregation past the planners, but they did!

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44 minutes ago, macca13 said:

We have killed 60% of animals on this planet! 

We need less people not more housing 

• close boarders

• stop child benefits 

• make it possible for councils to buy houses off buy to let scum 

• ban buy to leech mortgages 

……………. and let the poor starve to death, the only way we will get an affordable cleaner, if they will work for £3 p/h cash in hand, sacked the last one in Feb when she said her prices where going up 20% as she was forced to register for VAT? WTF!! that's £80k+ p/a for a cleaner!

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On ‎06‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:15, Freki said:

My idea around social housing would be considered radical. 80% at least of the park should be social housing. People who want to pay top money to satisfy their ego can still do so. Seriously the UK architecture is already so identical. You have terraced houses, or blocks of flat. 

You don't have to build tenements the way the USSR did. We can still use our collective brain to do better than that. And like I pointed every houses are the same here. reception, sitting, kitchen at the bottom. 3 bedrooms at the top. And the bathroom can vary from, next to the kitchen (...) to being upstairs.

And the appartment blocks and there I described 90% of the housing park. 

So let's stop people from fleecing us all, have it administered by the state, make it a constitutional right that we don't have to spend 50% of our income on rent to put in the pocket of landlords in a feudal way, people will have more money, more freedom.

The current system obviously is broken

I'm confused, no mention of a downstairs toilet, which rooms have en-suite and where is the utility room? I mean you cant expect Parents to have share washing space with children, how barbaric. And where to the muddy boots and cleaning products (for the cleaner) get stored without a utility room, and surely you cant mean 1 toilet for the whole family? Every one knows Dad needs his own due a smelly ****, then mums, and one for the children you use, guests use Dads.  Luckily we have 4 toilets a 4 people, so it all works out nicely.

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2 hours ago, iamnumerate said:

Wouldn't that also kill some Zombie companies?  Which might be a bad idea for unemployment etc in the short term.

(I am not saying that the current state of affairs is a good thing, but I am not sure cold turkey is possible).

Ideally, yes. The employment rate will always go up and down anyway.

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  • 142 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

    1. 1. Including the effects Brexit, where do you think average UK house prices will be relative to now in June 2020?


      • down 5% +
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      • Even
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      • up 5%



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