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Bear Goggles

Centre Point “silly offers”

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General lols. 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/oct/31/brutalist-market-flats-at-londons-centre-point-taken-off-market

The fact they can just leave it empty is telling. I’m pretty sure a LVT would concentrate the mind. As would a bit of socialist expropriation!

The chances of either are too low for them to care right now. 

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I'm really coming round to the idea of empty property confiscation. Buy to leave should not be a thing, nor should wishful thinking by developers.

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The property developer behind the conversion of central London’s Centre Point office skyscraper into multimillion-pound luxury apartments has given up trying to sell the flats after receiving too many “detached from reality” lowball offers.

Hhahahahahhahahahahahhaha what an absolute w4nk3r

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20 minutes ago, Mancghirl said:

I'm really coming round to the idea of empty property confiscation. Buy to leave should not be a thing, nor should wishful thinking by developers.

No, that is expropriation w/o compensation and it flies in the face of common law that goes back ages. You can do a Land Value Tax or equivalent, this will make profiteering on land speculation obsolete.

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He added that because Almacantar had sold half of the apartments, cleared the debts run up by construction and leased the retail space at the bottom of the tower “we see no point in chasing a market that is increasingly detached from reality”.

 

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5 minutes ago, No One said:

No, that is expropriation w/o compensation and it flies in the face of common law that goes back ages. You can do a Land Value Tax or equivalent, this will make profiteering on land speculation obsolete.

Excellent, 99% of properdee's listed 'value' -  paid annually. That should sort this kind of nonsense.

Edited by Mancghirl

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"we see no point in chasing a market that is increasingly detached from reality"

That is not the kind of talk you want from a boss, the market is the reality at that moment in time.

Really it's not that bad for them at least they have lowball offers.

Edited by Fromage Frais

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2 minutes ago, Mancghirl said:

Excellent, 99% of properdee's listed 'value' -  paid annually. That should sort this kind of nonsense.

Well yes. A 100% LVT would be very similar to expropriation, in fact, it's worse because it's theoretically every year. 

Realistically, there will be increasing pressure to tax empty property, particularly in London. Ultimately leaving large amounts of property empty in an area where there is a lack of affordability has a social cost, you can either ignore it until the politics blows up in your face and something radical happens, or you can introduce milder measures to reduce it. The Tories actually have quite a good record of doing the latter, but right now there's so much sh!t hitting so many fans everywhere, you just have to wonder what's going to blow first.

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11 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said:

"we see no point in chasing a market that is increasingly detached from reality"

That is not the kind of talk you want from a boss, the market is the reality at that moment in time.

Really it's not that bad for them at least they have lowball offers.

To be fair, the property market has had so many subsidies from government over recent years, you can't blame him for railing against the emergence of market forces.

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The decision to halt sales means about half of the tower’s 82 flats, which range from £1.8m for a small one-bedroom apartment to £55m for the two-storey five-bedroom penthouse, will now lie empty

Society is not working when there are rough sleepers out in the cold clustered around the foot of a skyscraper containing unsold 1-bed £1.8 million apartments.  There is literally not one winner out of that situation from the very richest to the very poorest - it's just a gross mis-allocation of resources.

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22 minutes ago, Mancghirl said:

Excellent, 99% of properdee's listed 'value' -  paid annually. That should sort this kind of nonsense.

Grow up no one would ever build a house how will that help the housing shortage 

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2 minutes ago, Bear Goggles said:

Well yes. A 100% LVT would be very similar to expropriation, in fact, it's worse because it's theoretically every year. 

Realistically, there will be increasing pressure to tax empty property, particularly in London. Ultimately leaving large amounts of property empty in an area where there is a lack of affordability has a social cost, you can either ignore it until the politics blows up in your face and something radical happens, or you can introduce milder measures to reduce it. The Tories actually have quite a good record of doing the latter, but right now there's so much sh!t hitting so many fans everywhere, you just have to wonder what's going to blow first.

We're past the tipping point of even upper middle classes being priced out of London, but the Tories are so invested in the chaos of Brexit that they're letting much of domestic policy concerns slide, see also policing and school funding.

 

 

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1 minute ago, happyguy said:

Grow up no one would ever build a house how will that help the housing shortage 

If LVT was applied to *empty* houses then the housing shortage would be (slightly) improved by people not house-banking (the way land-banking has been so popular for so long).

People would build houses to sell them (not to leave them empty) ...

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31 minutes ago, Fromage Frais said:

"we see no point in chasing a market that is increasingly detached from reality"

Hahahahahaha, oh, my sides!

"We regret chasing a market that was entirely detached from reality" 

Would be the truth!

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8 minutes ago, Aidan Ap Word said:

If LVT was applied to *empty* houses then the housing shortage would be (slightly) improved by people not house-banking (the way land-banking has been so popular for so long).

People would build houses to sell them (not to leave them empty) .

No developer builds a house to leave it empty that earns no money whatsoever  - they make money when a property is sold and they get the money in the bank 

It is like Tesco trying not to sell baked beans 

All the would happen is that a developer would not bother to build if they felt any possible risk 

 

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7 minutes ago, scottbeard said:

Society is not working when there are rough sleepers out in the cold clustered around the foot of a skyscraper containing unsold 1-bed £1.8 million apartments.  There is literally not one winner out of that situation from the very richest to the very poorest - it's just a gross mis-allocation of resources.

It's textbook economic failure, I remember reading stories from the great depression of food rotting in fields because farmers couldn't afford to employ people to harvest it. While people nearby, desperate for work, queued at soup kitchens.

At some point, the injustices that arise from economic failure become too great, and something breaks. 

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5 minutes ago, happyguy said:

No developer builds a house to leave it empty that earns no money whatsoever  - they make money when a property is sold and they get the money in the bank 

It is like Tesco trying not to sell baked beans 

All the would happen is that a developer would not bother to build if they felt any possible risk 

 

Yeah, like in Singapore where they have a LVT and absolutely no buildings are ever built. It's like an undeveloped wasteland.

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8 minutes ago, longgone said:

lets not forget this tower underneath the flashy exterior is built no better than grenfell. 

That's what I don't get. I used to walk past it regularly, and it was pretty grim. I'm unconvinced that Crossrail, or whatever else has gone on around TCR in the last 10-15 years has improved matters.

I note that the developers are marketing it as 'Covent Garden', so as to conjure up mental images of opera, and strolling through cobbled squares as a string quartet plays. Rather than electronics shops punting cheap amps.

Edited by Mancghirl

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3 minutes ago, Bear Goggles said:

Yeah, like in Singapore where they have a LVT and absolutely no buildings are ever built. It's like an undeveloped wasteland.

different market full of foreign investors laundering money 

it is easy to tell other people how to risk their business when you do not own your own business

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9 minutes ago, Bear Goggles said:

Yeah, like in Singapore where they have a LVT and absolutely no buildings are ever built. It's like an undeveloped wasteland.

6/7/2018

SINGAPORE (Nikkei Markets) -- The recovery in Singapore's private home market is barely a year old but the outlook is already darkening after the government announced new curbs in a bid to check prices.

The measures, announced late Thursday, caused a scramble for apartments as buyers rushed to beat the deadline before they took effect on Friday.

The new rules include higher additional stamp duty for Singapore residents buying a second home and for foreigners investing in the housing market. The government also lowered the maximum loan quantum for property purchases and levied new duties on developers buying existing sites for redevelopment.

With the latest increase, Singaporeans buying a second home must pay an extra 12% of the property value in stamp duty, up from 7% previously, while foreigners without residency status must cough up 20%, instead of 15%.

OCBC Investment Research described the latest restrictions as a "sledgehammer to kill a fly", and warned that sentiment could stay bearish for years, while several analysts, including those from DBS Group Research, said the volume of collective, or en-bloc, sales in Singapore could grind to a halt after rising sharply in recent months.

"We expect total volumes to fall to 9,000-10,000 units in 2018, and potentially even further if these curbs remain," DBS said in a report on Friday.

Private home prices in Singapore have increased 9.1% since hitting a trough in the second quarter of 2017, helped by stronger economic growth and the collective sales, which generate new demand since many sellers will have to look for new homes.

The market had been the doldrums previously, hurt by government cooling measures that included tougher lending limits and additional stamp duties on foreigners investing in Singapore housing.

"Though this round of cooling measures is quite heavy-handed, the (impact) on buying demand remains uncertain, given the firm economic outlook, recovering labor market and strong latent demand for property investment," she said.

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