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M40 crash: Three dead after car towing caravan drives in wrong direction up fast lane

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https://news.sky.com/story/m40-crash-three-dead-after-car-towing-caravan-drives-in-wrong-direction-up-fast-lane-11527193

M40 crash: Three dead after car towing caravan drives in wrong direction up fast lane

 

 

My immediate guess is this elderly couple who were driving the wrong way down the motorway in the FAST lane, thought they were in a single carriageway road and were simply keeping left.

Awful accident, my thoughts are with the victims' families, obviously.

 

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4 hours ago, longgone said:

retest at 70 is required and then every 3 years 

+1

I'm almost 70. I totally agree with this and if I have my way over the Mrs, I don't want or intend to drive once my present part time position comes to an end, which at a guess is maximum 2 years.

The people, many not much older than I and quite a few younger, who cannot move off in a reasonable time at lights and/ or seemingly cannot judge speed and distance accurately is a minor nuisance in terms of journey times but many are time bombs waiting to make that final, fatal misjudgement.

This of course is another oldie vote problem, I'm afraid it won't be tackled. 

Bus travel is free at that age, and ten times better, except of course in terms of timescale.

 

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19 minutes ago, Bluestone59 said:

+1

I'm almost 70. I totally agree with this and if I have my way over the Mrs, I don't want or intend to drive once my present part time position comes to an end, which at a guess is maximum 2 years.

The people, many not much older than I and quite a few younger, who cannot move off in a reasonable time at lights and/ or seemingly cannot judge speed and distance accurately is a minor nuisance in terms of journey times but many are time bombs waiting to make that final, fatal misjudgement.

This of course is another oldie vote problem, I'm afraid it won't be tackled. 

Bus travel is free at that age, and ten times better, except of course in terms of timescale.

 

I had a great uncle who was absolutely lethal as a driver in his 70s. He didn't manage to kill anyone, but he did lose control of his large automatic car in a car park and write off half a dozen other cars. Part of his lethality was his refusal to admit it.

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Sadly there was a case where someone confused the brake and gas pedal and ran two ladies down. To the annoyance of the families of the deceased they driver was so stubborn and simply wouldn't admit guilt (despite overwhelming evidence) and drew out the court proceedings as long as he/his lawyer could.

Even beyond the vote losing aspect, its tricky as seeing older folk maintain their (safe) independence as long as possible can also be great to see.

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On 17/10/2018 at 09:47, longgone said:

retest at 70 is required and then every 3 years 

Should just ban people below 25 and over 75 from driving, too much danger from those two age groups.

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On 18/10/2018 at 12:47, nightowl said:

Even beyond the vote losing aspect, its tricky as seeing older folk maintain their (safe) independence as long as possible can also be great to see.

My 1920s-born grandparents never owned a car in their lives, they were perfectly able to live independent adult lives.

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On 17/10/2018 at 14:28, Riedquat said:

There's something to be said for regular retests throughout life IMO (although maybe not as frequently when you're younger).

Why?  Don't younger drivers have more accidents?

In fact I wonder at what age the accident rate peaks?

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On 20/10/2018 at 11:52, Arpeggio said:

This video footage is astounding

 

How far had they already driving while thinking every car coming towards them was driven by a lunatic?

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5 hours ago, anonguest said:

Why?  Don't younger drivers have more accidents?

In fact I wonder at what age the accident rate peaks?

We already have 6 points allowance for first 2 years licence.

I also think younger drivers should be treated similarly to motorbike riders, not allowed a certain power until a certain age. A 17 year old that just passed their test can legally drive a Ferrari or gti etc. This might make insurance cheaper for all under 21 or 25s whatever the age is.

 

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1 hour ago, chronyx said:

How far had they already driving while thinking every car coming towards them was driven by a lunatic?

Exactly it beggars belief. Must be Dementia. They had already been in a crash 5 days previous.

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10 minutes ago, Arpeggio said:

They had already been in a crash 5 days previous.

Oh FFS! 

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10 hours ago, anonguest said:

Why?  Don't younger drivers have more accidents?

In fact I wonder at what age the accident rate peaks?

I didn't mean young by younger, just meant that a bit less often than every three years when you're under 70. Maybe have to have another test a couple of years after first passing, then say once every ten years after that until 70.

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On 20/10/2018 at 01:25, Dorkins said:

My 1920s-born grandparents never owned a car in their lives, they were perfectly able to live independent adult lives.

The world has reshaped itself significantly around the car (and easy transport in general), so whilst for some people in some places it's perfectly possible to do without it would be a right PITA for others. Small shops vanished and replaced by supermarkets - gives more choice and cheaper but relies on easy transport for example.

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2 hours ago, Riedquat said:

The world has reshaped itself significantly around the car (and easy transport in general), so whilst for some people in some places it's perfectly possible to do without it would be a right PITA for others. Small shops vanished and replaced by supermarkets - gives more choice and cheaper but relies on easy transport for example.

Supermarkets have done home delivery for the last 2 decades. With internet shopping, physically dragging yourself into a bricks and mortar shop is the PITA.

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Sometimes age is not the cause of this kind of mistake. I'm in my 60s and have only once driven the wrong way on a dual carriageway, it happened in my late teens.

I was driving on a club night rally and as we came up to a dual carriageway junction, my navigator felt sick and asked me to stop. We sat there for a minute or two with his head out of the door until he felt okay to continue, turn right, he said, which I did but we soon realised that we were going the wrong way on a dual carriageway. As there was no Armco or ditch, we managed to drive across the central reservation to join the correct carriageway.

Horrified at what I had done, I went back to that junction the next day to try to understand what had happened and it was immediately obvious. As you drove up to turn right onto the dual carriageway, it was well signposted to cross the first carriageway and turn right onto the second carriageway, but we had stopped just past the signs for a couple of minutes and when we re-started there was no indication that it was a dual carriageway.

Big lesson learned. Now, if I stop for any reason, like someone feeling sick, I always double check my surroundings before re-starting. 

 

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6 hours ago, Dorkins said:

Supermarkets have done home delivery for the last 2 decades. With internet shopping, physically dragging yourself into a bricks and mortar shop is the PITA.

Personally I find it the opposite, it's a PITA to have to order stuff if I could've just popped in to the shops to get, particularly when half they time deliveries don't even bother trying to find your house. Had one last week, no note through the door, no email, looked at the order tracker which just said it had been left at a shop a few miles away. Good job I've got a car...

Anyway that doesn't change the point about increasing centralisation of local services and amenities.

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Personally, I don't think it would be too much to ask that drivers prove their driving theory and hazard perception, along with their eyesight are all up to snuff each time they renew their licence every ten years and more regularly the older you get.

This would probably make a definite improvement to road safety but would be deeply unpopular among the daft and blind motorists who are likely to drive the wrong way down a motorway on their way to the polling stations.

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On 20/10/2018 at 01:21, Dorkins said:

Should just ban people below 25 and over 75 from driving, too much danger from those two age groups.

I don't think the upper limit of age should matter, a retest every x years amd becomes more frequent after 60... if you fail licence taken away there and then. Min of 15 hours lessons before retest.

I know a few people well below the age of 75 that should not be driving due to ill health, but they still do.  

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15 minutes ago, Riedquat said:

Personally I find it the opposite, it's a PITA to have to order stuff if I could've just popped in to the shops to get, particularly when half they time deliveries don't even bother trying to find your house. Had one last week, no note through the door, no email, looked at the order tracker which just said it had been left at a shop a few miles away. Good job I've got a car...

Anyway that doesn't change the point about increasing centralisation of local services and amenities.

The only bricks and mortar shop I use these days is the supermarket, and that's only because we live a few hundred metres from one so it's actually quicker just to go there. I can't think of any bad delivery experiences I've had in recent years but if something like you describe had happened to me I would have just ordered another one from a second retailer, not bothered to collect the first one and just waited for the refund. It's true that internet shopping requires more patience, horses for courses I guess.

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5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I don't think the upper limit of age should matter, a retest every x years amd becomes more frequent after 60... if you fail licence taken away there and then. Min of 15 hours lessons before retest.

I know a few people well below the age of 75 that should not be driving due to ill health, but they still do.  

The problem with a strategy based on retesting is that it doesn't take into account the fact that neurological decline is not a steady process. Somebody could be perfectly lucid 99.9% of the time and then highly confused the other 0.1%. It's in the latter time period that they might kill somebody but the chances of picking that up during a half hour test drive are very small.

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20 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

The problem with a strategy based on retesting is that it doesn't take into account the fact that neurological decline is not a steady process. Somebody could be perfectly lucid 99.9% of the time and then highly confused the other 0.1%. It's in the latter time period that they might kill somebody but the chances of picking that up during a half hour test drive are very small.

Good point. I suppose retesting and medical testing are means to two different driving-related issues.

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45 minutes ago, Dorkins said:

The only bricks and mortar shop I use these days is the supermarket, and that's only because we live a few hundred metres from one so it's actually quicker just to go there. I can't think of any bad delivery experiences I've had in recent years but if something like you describe had happened to me I would have just ordered another one from a second retailer, not bothered to collect the first one and just waited for the refund. It's true that internet shopping requires more patience, horses for courses I guess.

Some bits and bobs are too specialist for that, e.g. various model railway bits I get, often made by one bloke in his shed, although I suppose it's fair to say that's not really an example of general managing with life. I'll grant that internet shopping has made being car-less a bit easier than it would've been twenty years ago. As long as they don't substitute bacon for dogfood.

Delivery problems for me are fairly common, I'm down a private track off the road and putting the postcode in to a satnav usually just leaves people on a nearby dual carriageway you can't access my house from, and even when there's a field to put in more specific delivery information they usually ignore it. Fair play to one parcel though that had a quickly sketched map with the pub marked - the driver must've tried to ask someone (and probably got a bit irritated when I wasn't in!)

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  • 245 Brexit, House prices and Summer 2020

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